Our changing language.
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  1. #1
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    Our changing language.

    When I was a student, the teachers drilled into me, to not end a sentence with a preposition. Now we do it all the time.
    Also, we were taught the difference between in and into, on and onto and other no-longer followed grammar rules.

    Some examples
    ===============
    The are 5 things to choose from is OK now but in my day, we had to write There are five things from which to choose or
    you can choose from 5 things.

    Also
    ===
    Put the butter into the fridge. Where is the butter? The butter is in the fridge
    Put the package onto the tabletop. Where is the package? The package is on the Table top,
    We could be on topic of off topic, we could turn on a light or turn a light off. So much for on/off.
    But we could stand on the floor and put a box onto the floor.

    Should we write "Install the software on the hard disk" or should we write "Install the software onto the hard disk and into the xyz directory? "

    Leaving out a pronoun. I was going down the stairs. While going down the stairs, the firebell rang. (Did the firebell go down the stairs?).

    Challenge
    ========
    Tell me your peeves/issues.
    My issues arise from reading "Release" notes and other user manuals.
    Leslie in Montreal

    Interesting web sites list
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...40#post1697840

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    Re: Our changing language.

    The ambiguous or unattached pronoun is one that annoys me and is surprisingly common.
    "Put it in the box" where "it" has not attached to anything or could refer to more than one item.

    Acronyms that are not defined in the article in which they appear.

    User error. Please replace user and try again

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    Re: Our changing language.

    FYI, only going to get worse IMO. U know what I mean. . Language is going to change when you have only two thumbs to type with... And the new generation seems well on their way to mastering it. Obviously I can't speak this language very well, or this would be a very short paragraph of mnemonics, symbols, and acronyms.

    Even in my field I have a binder of acronyms for our EMP (Energy Management Platform)....

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    Re: Our changing language.

    Of course language changes over time, and that's generally a good thing. If it didn't us English speakers might all be speaking Middle English.
    ======
    Doug G
    ======

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    Re: Our changing language.

    There is a recent tendency to use gutter slang to sound 'cool'. How often do we hear and accept, without comment, statements such as "You be goin' " and "Yes ma’am!! Love me a Toyota!! " Both quotes are cut/paste from this week's Facebook posts of an educated 20-something caucasian female.
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    Don't use any of my solutions on working computers or near small children.

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    Re: Our changing language.

    It is interesting how technology has an affect on language.

    The printing press stabilised the spelling, for example.
    We now have devices that work best with short messages so a new system of short-cuts is beginning to make its mark on the language.

    Soon we will use voice for entry which will probably result in another set of changes, especially for homophones.

    User error. Please replace user and try again

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    Re: Our changing language.

    A few more irritants.
    I want to talk to you on fedora. replaced I want to talk to you about fedora. I always want to use about principals.

    And translating a French expression to English I would probably say,,, I want to talk of Fedora. Or I want to talk concerning Fedora. But I noticed that the French language is getting corrupted by the English.
    They will use "sur" for concerning, when sur in French litterally means on as "on" the table. The misuse is due to translation of English Computer Science books into French.

    Somehow When I think of bits in a byte, I would like to just use T or F, for true/false, as opposed to saying "the 2nd bit is on".

    When I write documentation I distinguish between see and refer to.
    When I write See xyz, xyz is within this same document. When I use "refer to", xyz is somewhere else. I get annoyed when the word see refers to an external reference not within the same document.
    Leslie in Montreal

    Interesting web sites list
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...40#post1697840

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    Re: Our changing language.

    Quote Originally Posted by lsatenstein
    When I was a student, the teachers drilled into me, to not end a sentence with a preposition. Now we do it all the time.
    There is no such rule in English grammar - it's an invention of schoolteachers.

    My favorite take on that nonexistent "rule" is from a movie:

    Person 1: "Where'd that come from?"
    Person 2: "You're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition."
    Person 1: "OK. Where'd that come from, a**hole?"

    I normally despise Winston Churchill, but he did a good job of making fun of that "rule":

    “This is the sort of bloody nonsense up with which I will not put.”
    Quote Originally Posted by lsatenstein
    Also, we were taught the difference between in and into, on and onto and other no-longer followed grammar rules.
    According to Fowler's Modern English Usage, beginning a sentence with "Also" is considered a "marked feature of uneducated speech."

    Quote Originally Posted by lsatenstein
    Should we write "Install the software on the hard disk" or should we write "Install the software onto the hard disk and into the xyz directory? "
    Let me fix that for you:
    Should we write "Install the software on the hard disk," or should we write "Install the software onto the hard disk and into the xyz directory"?
    A few more pet peeves:
    • The misuse of "literally" by millennials.
      Example: "I literally drove there yesterday."
      There is no need for "literally" in that sentence. Was there a possibility of figuratively driving there yesterday?
      Even worse: "The new iPhones were literally flying off the shelves yesterday."
      No, no they were not literally flying off the shelves, unless they somehow magically sprouted wings and could fly.
    • The misuse of "hopefully" by almost everyone.
      Example: "Hopefully, it won't rain tomorrow."
      "Hopefully" is an adverb, used to describe a verb.
      Example: "I walked hopefully toward the doctor."
      That is correct usage. The first example should be stated like this: "I hope it won't rain tomorrow."
    • Incorrectly using "I" instead of the correct usage of "me," probably because people think "I" sounds correct.
      This bugs the hell out of me. I have even heard supposedly educated journalists (news anchors) say things like "They gave the news to you and I." In this case, "I" is an indirect object, so the correct form is "me," regardless of how many indirect objects there are: "They gave the news to you and me." For some reason, many people think that the conjunction "and" mandates the use of "I" instead of "me" in all situations. That holds only for the subjects of a sentence ("You and I wear the same shoes."), not for direct or indirect objects.
    • The use of "All" as a greeting in emails.
      Example: "Hello, All, ..."
      Whoever started that practice should be shot. It would be better to say "Hello, team, ...," or even just "Hello, ...".
    • The use of "try and" instead of "try to."
      Example: "Try and have that done tomorrow."
      Correct: "Try to have that done tomorrow."

    The Elements of Style by Strunk & White covers these and many other annoying practices. Hopefully, more people will literally try and read that book.
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    Re: Our changing language.

    I just use English because I have to. I sort of like it though, it reminds me about my childhood and I thank it for that.

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    Re: Our changing language.

    Can I lend your <insertnamehere> DVD?
    No you can't lend it, you can borrow it from me

    Will you give me a lift with <insert name of large heavy object that needs moving to decorate/clean/load or unload from a vehicle etc.>?
    I can help you lift it, I can't give you a lift with it.

    I will learn you about our changing language... You need to learn something yourself before you teach me.

    Oh and aksed instead of asked, what the hell is that about?

    And why is Netflix and chill a thing? I know what it means but why the need for such a crap term complete with a brand name.

    This thread should be renamed grumpy old gits putting the world to rights.

  11. #11
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    Re: Our changing language.

    I think part of it is the Mac culture. In France, most people have Macs, and it's always "To install this program, drag it into the Applications folder." It's just become ingrained in the minds of average users.

  12. #12
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    Re: Our changing language.

    Quote Originally Posted by RupertPupkin
    There is no such rule in English grammar - it's an invention of schoolteachers.

    My favorite take on that nonexistent "rule" is from a movie:

    Person 1: "Where'd that come from?"
    Person 2: "You're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition."
    Person 1: "OK. Where'd that come from, a**hole?"

    I normally despise Winston Churchill, but he did a good job of making fun of that "rule":



    According to Fowler's Modern English Usage, beginning a sentence with "Also" is considered a "marked feature of uneducated speech."


    Let me fix that for you:


    A few more pet peeves:
    • The misuse of "literally" by millennials.
      Example: "I literally drove there yesterday."
      There is no need for "literally" in that sentence. Was there a possibility of figuratively driving there yesterday?
      Even worse: "The new iPhones were literally flying off the shelves yesterday."
      No, no they were not literally flying off the shelves, unless they somehow magically sprouted wings and could fly.
    • The misuse of "hopefully" by almost everyone.
      Example: "Hopefully, it won't rain tomorrow."
      "Hopefully" is an adverb, used to describe a verb.
      Example: "I walked hopefully toward the doctor."
      That is correct usage. The first example should be stated like this: "I hope it won't rain tomorrow."
    • Incorrectly using "I" instead of the correct usage of "me," probably because people think "I" sounds correct.
      This bugs the hell out of me. I have even heard supposedly educated journalists (news anchors) say things like "They gave the news to you and I." In this case, "I" is an indirect object, so the correct form is "me," regardless of how many indirect objects there are: "They gave the news to you and me." For some reason, many people think that the conjunction "and" mandates the use of "I" instead of "me" in all situations. That holds only for the subjects of a sentence ("You and I wear the same shoes."), not for direct or indirect objects.
    • The use of "All" as a greeting in emails.
      Example: "Hello, All, ..."
      Whoever started that practice should be shot. It would be better to say "Hello, team, ...," or even just "Hello, ...".
    • The use of "try and" instead of "try to."
      Example: "Try and have that done tomorrow."
      Correct: "Try to have that done tomorrow."

    The Elements of Style by Strunk & White covers these and many other annoying practices. Hopefully, more people will literally try and read that book.
    Hi Rupert,
    Hopefully, your examples and irritants will get drilled into my brain.

    Thank you for the feedback.
    By the way, each and every line of yours will be added to my list of irritant expressions.

    Some 55 years ago, when I did a philosophy course, we had to know the difference between All and some.
    All dogs bark, vs some dogs bark.
    "All unicorns have horns" did not convey existence of unicorns.
    Leslie in Montreal

    Interesting web sites list
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...40#post1697840

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