New trends in selling hardware
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  1. #1
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    New trends in selling hardware

    https://www.techspot.com/news/73918-...sing-only.html

    They are saying 5ghz ddr memory, and both gskill and samsung are stating they want 32gigs as the standard desktop size.

    I'll take 32gig dimms at 5ghz for the price of a pair of 8gig 3200 ddr4's
    Last edited by lsatenstein; 10th October 2018 at 06:28 PM.
    Leslie in Montreal

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    Quote Originally Posted by lsatenstein
    ... both gskill and samsung are stating that wants 32gigs as the standard desktop size.
    640k ought to be enough for anybody.
    Marching to the beat of his own conundrum.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Bert
    640k ought to be enough for anybody.
    640k was just luxury.
    Its quite saddening to think how much time programmers used to spend trying to shoe-horn programs into tiny amounts of memory. Things like loading code on top of other code that was no longer needed, or reusing code space to store additional data.

    It now appears we are not too far from some form of byte addressable persistent storage that will allow terabytes of memory.

    User error. Please replace user and try again

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    From google:
    Who said 640k ought to be enough for anybody?
    "640K ought to be enough for anybody" *was* *definitely* said by Bill Gates. He said it at an early microcomputer trade show in Seattle in mid 1981.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    There's a deliberate tactic emerging between RAM manufacturers to limit output and therefore keep prices higher by preventing the channel from becoming saturated with modules as it did in the past when RAM became much cheaper as a result. DDR5 isn't going to change that.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    Microsoft has released MSDOS source -- v.1 and V2.1, I think -- on Github (with some sort of open source licensing that I can't recall) so get your assemblers warmed up. The entire thing is remarkably small.

    Maybe someone can port Firefox.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    All this HW these days..
    The time I ordered Matrox Mystique from some guy who got hands on it back in the day (as it was just not normally possible to get in Czech through official channels)
    are long gone. It was the time when I first got the Mystique patch for the first Tomb Raider and was amazed how fast it was, plus further visibility and fixed texture alignments! And no crappy bilinear at all! Awesome. And what was great as well was the color quality of the output. It was almost incomparably better compared to the common VGA cards in the day. S4it, that was heavy doc!

    Today? Aaah.
    Three companies playing their little game, fooling others with their rules. Intel having quasi new gen stuff full of holes, AMD not letting go of a single opportunity to pi$$ on Intel, which I actually find disgusting and therefore will not get anything like Ryzen at all, but will eventually get Intel again, who I guess learned it's lesson and is now in the phase of getting used to stand on it's feet again. And Nvidia somewhat in the background, as it's not in the CPU business and maybe thus seen more of a GPU choice than AMD. So no need to get offensive (much) on any of the two jokers, but releasing stuff just out of the need to keep the position intact. Sort of funny play here!
    Take the already archaic 2080 Ti. It's generally pointless hardware for pointless price, but one has to show who's the king here. Same story again and again.
    Raytracing? Well, Amiga was doing it in software in the time Marty went back to the future ffs..
    Well, and in that time there was even something like games being made. That is generally not the case these days at all. With some notable exceptions. And many of those, percent-wise, are PS4 exclusives anyway.
    No, forget all this PC gaming crap and just have few days with Uncharted 4. And after you're tired, get some sleep and do few Driveclub races freshly after waking up and mission for the day is complete
    Last edited by Maryyy; 10th October 2018 at 11:06 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryyy
    All this HW these days..
    The time I ordered Matrox Mystique from some guy who got hands on it back in the day (as it was just not normally possible to get in Czech through official channels)
    are long gone. It was the time when I first got the Mystique patch for the first Tomb Raider and was amazed how fast it was, plus further visibility and fixed texture alignments! And no crappy bilinear at all! Awesome. And what was great as well was the color quality of the output. It was almost incomparably better compared to the common VGA cards in the day. S4it, that was heavy doc!

    Today? Aaah.
    Three companies playing their little game, fooling others with their rules. Intel having quasi new gen stuff full of holes, AMD not letting go of a single opportunity to pi$$ on Intel, which I actually find disgusting and therefore will not get anything like Ryzen at all, but will eventually get Intel again, who I guess learned it's lesson and is now in the phase of getting used to stand on it's feet again. And Nvidia somewhat in the background, as it's not in the CPU business and maybe thus seen more of a GPU choice than AMD. So no need to get offensive (much) on any of the two jokers, but releasing stuff just out of the need to keep the position intact. Sort of funny play here!
    Take the already archaic 2080 Ti. It's generally pointless hardware for pointless price, but one has to show who's the king here. Same story again and again.
    Raytracing? Well, Amiga was doing it in software in the time Marty went back to the future ffs..
    Well, and in that time there was even something like games being made. That is generally not the case these days at all. With some notable exceptions. And many of those, percent-wise, are PS4 exclusives anyway.
    No, forget all this PC gaming crap and just have few days with Uncharted 4. And after you're tired, get some sleep and do few Driveclub races freshly after waking up and mission for the day is complete
    Hi Mary,
    Intel did some horrific things to keep AMD away, from having evaluations and spreading false rumors about them. It was border line criminal what Intel did, and it cost you $$$ for your laptop and desktop.

    AMD are a competitor who say "Give the customer an even break!. We are a competor, and are competing fairly. Intel over the years became a fat cow, and overly sure that they could sustain their high prices via small technological changes. There are some people who "must have the latest and the best", and that is for whom both companies are catering.
    Leslie in Montreal

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    PCI-E storage is of more interest to me at present, however as an OEM I do take an interest of course in hardware developments and keep an eye on what's coming. DDR5 hasn't been ratified yet but the draft standard certainly makes for interesting reading.

    Anyhow, please do not let this thread nose dive into a heated discussion about which Company is more ethical than the other and who did what when. At least there are still competitors to push the boundaries of what is possible with hardware.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    Or profits at the cost of the real progress. Ok, sorry, enough of it.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    The number of flip-flop circuits, gates and interconnect within a single cpu chip cannot be radically different between all vendors who make x86-64 CPUs. The engineering investment is in moving to reducing power consumption and physical size. 7 nanometers is a current target. Other engineering research is into cpu chip interconnect. For fewer number of cores, Intel's approach is better than AMD's. But for eight plus cores, AMD interconnect wins.
    Perms and combinations tell you that there are 8"7 or 56 ways to connect any two of an 8 cpu offering. Double the number of CPUs and the advantage design by AMD wins.

    I am going to upgrade my system shortly. I do not want to build a space heater yet I want lots of RAM and fast performance.
    Both vendors CPUs need too many clock-ticks to complete a simple instruction. There needs to be more parallelism. I believe that future CPUs will execute more than one instruction at a time while also decoding instructions ahead of need.
    Some hardware may generate imprecise interrupts on an execution fault such as divide by zero or tlb lookup failure.
    If we can get 128 gigs of RAM for a desktop who needs virtual paging?

    Excuse my ramblings.
    Leslie in Montreal

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    How 'fast' is fast ? To me 'fast' is a very fuzzy concept as each of us has our own perception of 'fast'! You must also balance cost and speed at some point. Case in point, I am using a Ryzen 2600 65W CPU in my work station (my price point). So that's 6 cores 12 threads ... 65W at 3.4Ghz-3.9Ghz (stock). Not a 'space heater' by any means, yet I can't seem to 'push' it to its limit (at this time) under normal workloads. Applications snap to life when clicked and are not sluggish at all during execution... I suppose if I was doing hyper-sonic space re-entry simulations doing boundary layer calcs, it might be 'slow' ... But for my use it just blows away all the previous systems I have ever owned. I don't 'game', so the 1050 card I have installed is more than enough graphics umph even on my 4K monitor. I do wish I had at least 32G ( I have only 16G at this time due to cost), but my programming/development and normal use doesn't even push the 16G. With no apps open my system sits at around 400M. Only when I have multiple VMs up, does the memory become a factor. As for parallelism, the CPUs already do this (so I understand) for branching. Of course if system was based on ARM then you'd get the lower cycles, but then sometimes it takes more instructions to do the same thing on the x86 architecture with one instruction. Trade offs. Also ... with 12 threads, you are executing 'instructions' in parallel . Quit nicely in fact! Couple that with SSDs, and the system is 'quiet' and moving along at a very good clip and relatively low power. I guess I call that a win (for me). Oh, and if I do need more for some reason ... I can still swap in a R7 and higher speed memory.... At least for a couple years!

    Be nice when memory can 'match' CPU for speed. Ie. when 'latency' becomes a term that was used in the past .
    Last edited by rclark; 12th October 2018 at 09:44 PM.

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    RC,
    my system is a quadcore no-hyperthreading ddr2 based system. The cpu clocks at around 3mhz. The ram at 850mhz. I too see around 400megs of ram used with no apps. I can't run VMs as it is just too slow. I therefore use spare drives to do my testing. I have /junk /backup, /scratch and two others
    My case can handle 6 drives.

    I was really trying to point out that we humans always want better. How do you define better? Is faster, larger, smaller, more efficient better?

    I agree with you that you have sized your system to meet two objectives. price and performance. I am hanging onto my current system because the technology can give me performance for what I want, but not at my price.

    If my desktop dies tomorrow, I will join others in the Ryzen club.
    Leslie in Montreal

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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    The biggest problem with hardware is the top performance available and performance needed most of the time. I may get Supermicro board with dual Xeons and 128GB RAM and sometimes I can even use this performance, but 99% of the time it will be wasted. Opposite problem is with under-powered HW. So in the end, it's about the compromise and it's cost.
    In my case, I have to keep alive 4 machines and make those compromises for their specific usage scenarios. And so I refuse to invest much in it. E.g. I have a small HP desktop, where I need only HW accelerated video, as the CPU is slow for 10bit and for very high bitrate videos. Other than that, not much is needed. So low-profile, passively cooled 1030 with hdmi output is ideal. My desktop has similar general requirements, with some occasional gaming happening, so 1050Ti is ideal here. Much lower TDP than 4GB 960, with usually 10-15% performance better in opengl and really noticeably better performance in Vulkan (and DX12 for that matter), plus cuda HW decoding for 8,10 and 12 bit hevc and vp9. Cool.
    960 moved to work, so no waste.
    That's it. There is purpose and whatever it is, it just needs appropriate iron to fulfill it.
    Like Amiga with video backup system did.

  15. #15
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    Re: New trends in selling hardware

    Some of us are seniors, want to purchase a system that will last 6 or 7 years or cost not more than $200/yr. That is how we tend to choose our desktop systems.
    My desktop system outlasts the two cellphones that I owned. I have my 3rd cellphone. Cellphone batteries are not replaceable, and that forces replacements. Lets hope that technology does not force a replacement of today's technology within 24 months. But if Samsung and Gskill are right, we should be looking for motherboards that can handle 32gigs ram per slot. I am not a gamer, but who knows what I may want to do with my system. One thought is for artificial intelligence for the game of chess. One is for my collection of jpg and png images. The other is for my study of programming languages. So, its always going to be a decision to get the most system for the budget, considering the 32gigs Ram /slot.
    Leslie in Montreal

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