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  1. #16
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    I wasn't complaining about Wayland. I have studied quite a bit about it and understand that it is better that X11 in many ways. It just happened that when Wayland and Mutter started to get implemented that some of my favorite applications stopped working. This was apparently due to the new access controls. Well, I've learned to due without them, but I will keep mentioning them in various places from time to time in the hopes of encouraging their update so they will work in the new system someday.

    Actually that's one of the things I like about Fedora, it's close to the edge, but not too close. Though I was a bit surprised when I was testing F28 starting right after the branch. I thought it would be pretty clean, but I didn't expect it to be quite as clean as it was. I did file a few bugs, but virtually all of them were out of scope for the standard testing. I'm not good enough with Fedora yet to try testing Rawhide I think I may start running Rawhide on my test machine when the F30 cycle starts.

    Believe me; I have great respect for Adam Williamson. He helped me a lot as I was getting started in the QA group. I'm looking forward to the F29 Branch as that will be my cue to get back to being more active in testing.
    Have a Great Day!

  2. #17
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    As for whining, I'm the one who first suggested the rants forum. If I seemed at all rude in my response about upping the game, I apologize, for I remember frequently feeling it was bad that people couldn't complain about Fedora without being harshly criticized. (Much less than it used to be though).

    So....I would still say, Fedora is basically a development/test program for RH, but with many hard working people involved, they tend to release a more stable O/S than they used to do. I wouldn't use it for a server (though many do, successfully), because of the relatively short life, and the fact that as a testbed, they will, at times, push things ahead before they're ready for prime time. IMHO, that's fine too, it helps those of us who rely on RedHat or CentOS in production to know that something has been tested before being put in production.

    Things that it lacks that Debian (or something like Ubuntu, based on Debian) has are certainly going to be there, or you might, for no real reason, just prefer Debian's way of doing things. Unless it has a connection with your work, I don't think it really matters what you use, they're all good. The only thing I would say that might be semi intelligent is that just because we don't like something doesn't mean that it's no good.

  3. #18
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    I fully agree with your "don't like" does not equal "bad" I started doing useful things with computers back in the 70s. So I've worked with lots of OSes and even coded on micros with no OS. There is no perfect system, no perfect OS. Though until I found Fedora the VMS OS that ran on DEC VAX machines was my favorite. I really liked the human language CLI. Alas DEC VAXes and VMS are historical dust now.

    I understood that Fedora is a development platform for RH from the beginning. That's one of the main reasons I selected Fedora for my replacement of that west coast OS. I like the fact that there are software engineers, system engineers, and other RH people with customer concerns watching over Fedora. Frankly, I expected that it would be a bit wild and woolly at times, but I have found Fedora to be quite stable. Yes, there have been a couple of initially "fun" releases, but nothing has been hugely serious yet.

    After school, when I was being "raised" to be a good engineer, in a hi-rel environment, at my first company, one of the things that got drilled into my head was (if you find something that needs attention make sure the team knows about it). As a result I make posts in several places about various things. It's just me trying to help with continuous improvement and pass on things I have learned about Fedora.

    I have no interest in using anything other than Fedora. Though I am looking forward to loading the CentOS on my test machine and perhaps gaining some insight no how RH sees the world.
    Have a Great Day!

  4. #19
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    FWIW, I miss USBview, too.
    Hope is not a plan

  5. #20
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    Well, I have CentOS 7 loaded on my test machine. First I'll agree with the comment earlier that CentOS 7 is a lot like F21. I was quite amazed by that. I checked for YUM instead of DNF, Tweak Tool instead of Tweaks, X11 instead of Wayland and some other later day items and found everything I looked at to be the expected circa F21 vintage.

    The only thing that seemed to be a bit odd is that there are some gnome extensions that seem to be locked on, For instance Applications Menu and Places status indicator are ON and can not be turned off via the gnome tweak tool.

    I should have asked before I ordered the CentOS, but I see that CentOS is available with either Gnome or KDE. I ordered the gnome version without really thinking about it, but now I'm curious as to which of these RH integrates in their product.

    More generally I'm wondering if CentOS is close to the RH version, or is CentOS a unique configuration, intended to look like Fedora, that happens to be made from modules that RH kindly made available.

    In any case I am impressed by the apparently tight coupling between CentOS and Fedora.
    Have a Great Day!

  6. #21
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    No, Fedora does not need to "up it's game" to anyone's standards.
    Glenn
    The Bassinator

  7. #22
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    My comment. shoot me if I am wrong

    Two years ago, Rawhide was a development system for Fedora and Fedora was a development platform for RedHat.
    Centos was a clone of RedHat.
    That changed a few months back.
    RedHat recognized that Centos'ers want more than 6 months of stability. Centos'ers are the low hanging fruit that turned out to be the Q/A stream for RH. Centos was taken under RH's wings, so to speak.
    So, Rawhide feeds Fedora and Fedora feeds Centos for system software. Centos users now do the Q/A for RH. Centos is used in small businesses as a production server. For some (for example, libreoffice) applications, Fedora may feed both Centos and RH concurrently.
    Leslie in Montreal

    Interesting web sites list
    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...40#post1697840

  8. #23
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    Quote Originally Posted by tnsupport
    postgresql - with debian, install postgresql and it is all setup - no fooling with confusing hba_conf, no db_init required (well we guess the debian package runs this)
    Why would you want the pg_hba.conf file automatically set up? Setting the proper db permissions in that file is pretty important, and usually requires some customization if you're dealing with nontrivial databases. I would never want that done by the package installer - I'd want an experienced db admin to go line by line through that file to make sure everything is right for the current system. I had no idea that Debian was so cavalier with database security. I guess it's good to know, so that I know now to avoid Debian like the plague.

    Sounds to me like Debian needs to up its game to Fedora.
    OS: Fedora 28 x86_64 | Machine: HP Pavilion a6130n | CPU: AMD 64 X2 Dual-Core 5000+ 2.6GHz | RAM: 7GB PC5300 DDR2 | Disk: 400GB SATA | Video: ATI Radeon HD 4350 512MB | Sound: Realtek ALC888S | Ethernet: Realtek RTL8201N

  9. #24
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    Unless someone out there ports (rewrites) WindowMaker for Wayland (WaylandMaker?) I'm going to be stuck on Xorg for a long time.

  10. #25
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    Could those who are familiar with CentOS look back at my post #20 and comment on the two things I am curious about?

    Thanks.
    Have a Great Day!

  11. #26
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    Re: fedora needs to up game to debian

    TablePC wrote:
    More generally I'm wondering if CentOS is close to the RH version, or is CentOS a unique configuration, intended to look like Fedora, that happens to be made from modules that RH kindly made available.
    From CentOS FAQ:
    1. What is CentOS Linux?

    CentOS Linux provides a free and open source computing platform to anyone who wishes to use it. CentOS Linux releases are built from publicly available open source source code provided by Red Hat, Inc for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. This source code is available on the CentOS Git website.

    CentOS Linux is the Community Development Platform for the Red Hat family of Linux distributions. See this FAQ for more information.

    CentOS conforms fully with Red Hat, Inc's redistribution policies and aims to be functionally compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux. CentOS mainly changes packages to remove trademarked vendor branding and artwork.

    CentOS Linux does not contain Red Hat Enterprise Linux or Fedora Linux; nor does it have any of their certifications, although it is built from the same source code as the Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

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