FedoraForum.org - Wibble

Owning the libs :P

Cacusioh — Mon, 14 Sep 2026 20:13:22 GMT

I love using Linux because it owns the libs :)

cacusioh@kinoite:~$ rpm -qa|grep libs
libssh-config-0.12.2-1.fc44.noarch
ncurses-libs-6.6-1.fc44.x86_64
libstdc++-16.2.1-2.fc44.x86_64
systemd-libs-259.8-1.fc44.x86_64
dbus-libs-1.16.2-1.fc44.x86_64
xz-libs-5.8.2-2.fc44.x86_64
bzip2-libs-1.0.8-23.fc44.x86_64
sqlite-libs-3.51.2-2.fc44.x86_64
fuse3-libs-3.18.2-1.fc44.x86_64
libseccomp-2.6.1-2.fc44.x86_64
keyutils-libs-1.6.3-7.fc44.x86_64
audit-libs-4.2.1-1.fc44.x86_64
vlc-libs-3.0.23-10.fc44.x86_64
gdbm-libs-1.23-11.fc44.x86_64
lua-libs-5.4.8-5.fc44.x86_64
flac-libs-1.5.0-8.fc44.x86_64
libsigc++30-3.8.1-1.fc44.x86_64
bluez-libs-5.87+1.git8750129efca8-1.fc44.x86_64
lame-libs-3.100-21.fc44.x86_64
libsepol-3.11-1.fc44.x86_64
libselinux-3.11-2.fc44.x86_64
libselinux-utils-3.11-2.fc44.x86_64
lz4-libs-1.10.0-4.fc44.x86_64
libsemanage-3.11-1.fc44.x86_64
polkit-libs-127-2.fc44.2.x86_64
speech-dispatcher-libs-0.12.1-6.fc44.x86_64
plymouth-core-libs-24.004.60-24.fc44.x86_64
e2fsprogs-libs-1.47.3-4.fc44.x86_64
sane-backends-libs-1.4.0-6.fc44.x86_64
file-libs-5.46-10.fc44.x86_64
spirv-tools-libs-2026.1-1.fc44.x86_64
jbigkit-libs-2.1-33.fc44.x86_64
pam-libs-1.7.2-2.fc44.x86_64
lmdb-libs-0.9.34-2.fc44.x86_64
mpg123-libs-1.32.10-3.fc44.x86_64
libsndfile-1.2.2-11.fc44.x86_64
svt-av1-libs-3.1.2-2.fc44.x86_64
libshaderc-2026.1-1.fc44.x86_64
colord-libs-1.4.8-4.fc44.x86_64
upower-libs-1.91.4-1.fc44.x86_64
libsecret-0.21.7-10.fc44.x86_64
openssl-libs-3.5.8-1.fc44.x86_64
kmod-libs-34.2-4.fc44.x86_64
avahi-libs-0.9~rc2-8.fc44.x86_64
authselect-libs-1.7.1-1.fc44.x86_64
composefs-libs-1.0.8-5.fc44.x86_64
llvm-libs-22.1.8-4.fc44.x86_64
krb5-libs-1.22.2-4.fc44.x86_64
cups-libs-2.4.19-3.fc44.x86_64
lm_sensors-libs-3.6.0-24.fc44.x86_64
ntfs-3g-libs-2026.2.25-1.fc44.x86_64
numactl-libs-2.0.19-4.fc44.x86_64
pciutils-libs-3.15.0-1.fc44.x86_64
pcsc-lite-libs-2.4.1-2.fc44.x86_64
rav1e-libs-0.8.1-3.fc44.x86_64
twolame-libs-0.4.0-9.fc44.x86_64
libshout-2.4.6-10.fc44.x86_64
net-snmp-libs-5.9.5.2-4.fc44.x86_64
zchunk-libs-1.5.4-1.fc44.x86_64
passim-libs-0.1.12-1.fc44.x86_64
ibus-libs-1.5.34-4.fc44.x86_64
libsss_idmap-2.13.1-2.fc44.x86_64
fftw-libs-double-3.3.10-17.fc44.x86_64
cdparanoia-libs-10.2-50.fc44.x86_64
efivar-libs-39-12.fc44.x86_64
faad2-libs-2.11.2-6.fc44.x86_64
gutenprint-libs-5.3.5-7.fc44.x86_64
libssh-0.12.2-1.fc44.x86_64
plymouth-graphics-libs-24.004.60-24.fc44.x86_64
libsamplerate-0.2.2-12.fc44.x86_64
libsbc-2.1-2.fc44.x86_64
libsmartcols-2.41.5-1.fc44.x86_64
libstemmer-3.0.1-11.fc44.x86_64
qrencode-libs-4.1.1-12.fc44.x86_64
xxhash-libs-0.8.3-4.fc44.x86_64
lilv-libs-0.26.4-1.fc44.x86_64
rubberband-libs-4.0.0-5.fc44.x86_64
libsoup3-3.6.6-10.fc44.x86_64
opensc-libs-0.27.1-2.fc44.x86_64
exiv2-libs-0.28.9-1.fc44.x86_64
ostree-libs-2026.4-1.fc44.x86_64
ima-evm-utils-libs-1.6.2-8.fc44.x86_64
libsrtp-2.8.0-1.fc44.x86_64
libsss_certmap-2.13.1-2.fc44.x86_64
rpm-libs-6.0.2-1.fc44.x86_64
rpm-sign-libs-6.0.2-1.fc44.x86_64
libsolv-0.7.39-1.fc44.x86_64
rpm-ostree-libs-2026.2-1.fc44.x86_64
sso-mib-libs-0.8.0-1.fc44.x86_64
libslirp-4.9.1-3.fc44.x86_64
qpdf-libs-12.3.2-1.fc44.x86_64
srt-libs-1.5.7-1.fc44.x86_64
kyotocabinet-libs-1.2.80-9.fc44.x86_64
device-mapper-libs-1.02.212-2.fc44.x86_64
cryptsetup-libs-2.8.7-1.fc44.x86_64
samba-core-libs-4.24.6-1.fc44.x86_64
samba-ndr-libs-4.24.6-1.fc44.x86_64
samba-client-libs-4.24.6-1.fc44.x86_64
libsmbclient-4.24.6-1.fc44.x86_64
samba-libs-4.24.6-1.fc44.x86_64
device-mapper-event-libs-1.02.212-2.fc44.x86_64
accountsservice-libs-23.13.9-16.fc44.x86_64
malcontent-libs-0.14.0-1.fc44.x86_64
flatpak-libs-1.18.2-1.fc44.x86_64
lvm2-libs-2.03.38-2.fc44.x86_64
ipset-libs-7.24-3.fc44.x86_64
volume_key-libs-0.3.12-29.fc44.x86_64
stoken-libs-0.93-2.fc44.x86_64
fftw-libs-single-3.3.10-17.fc44.x86_64
graphviz-libs-14.1.4-2.fc44.x86_64
editorconfig-libs-0.12.11-1.fc44.x86_64
libss-1.47.3-4.fc44.x86_64
gettext-libs-0.26-5.fc44.x86_64
xapian-core-libs-1.4.30-2.fc44.x86_64
jasper-libs-4.2.8-2.fc44.x86_64
gpsd-libs-3.27.5-5.fc44.x86_64
openxr-libs-1.1.63-1.fc44.x86_64
libsane-airscan-0.99.36-2.fc44.x86_64
tesseract-libs-5.5.3-1.fc44.x86_64
jbig2dec-libs-0.20-8.fc44.x86_64
kernel-tools-libs-7.2.4-200.fc44.x86_64
pulseaudio-libs-17.0-9.fc44.x86_64
pulseaudio-libs-glib2-17.0-9.fc44.x86_64
glycin-libs-2.1.5-1.fc44.x86_64
openexr-libs-3.2.4-7.fc44.x86_64
pipewire-libs-1.6.8-1.fc44.x86_64
pipewire-jack-audio-connection-kit-libs-1.6.8-1.fc44.x86_64
wireplumber-libs-0.5.14-1.fc44.x86_64
iptables-libs-1.8.11-13.fc44.x86_64
libsodium-1.0.22-1.fc44.x86_64
libsss_nss_idmap-2.13.1-2.fc44.x86_64
libsss_sudo-2.13.1-2.fc44.x86_64
bind-libs-9.18.50-2.fc44.x86_64
linux-atm-libs-2.5.1-46.fc44.x86_64
python3-libs-3.14.7-1.fc44.x86_64
gstreamer1-plugins-bad-free-libs-1.28.7-1.fc44.x86_64
hplip-libs-3.26.4-7.fc44.x86_64
python3-libselinux-3.11-2.fc44.x86_64
python3-libsemanage-3.11-1.fc44.x86_64
openapv-libs-0.2.1.2-1.fc44.x86_64
freerdp-libs-3.31.1-1.fc44.x86_64
xevd-libs-0.5.0-6.fc44.x86_64
xeve-libs-0.5.1-6.fc44.x86_64
elfutils-libs-0.196-1.fc44.x86_64
rpm-build-libs-6.0.2-1.fc44.x86_64
gnustep-base-libs-1.31.0-8.fc44.x86_64
unbound-libs-1.26.0-1.fc44.x86_64
wget2-libs-2.2.1-2.fc44.x86_64
system-config-printer-libs-1.5.18-20.fc44.noarch
kf6-frameworkintegration-libs-6.30.0-1.fc44.x86_64
kf6-kwallet-libs-6.30.0-1.fc44.x86_64
kf6-kio-core-libs-6.30.0-1.fc44.x86_64
kf6-kio-widgets-libs-6.30.0-1.fc44.x86_64
plasma-workspace-libs-6.7.5-1.fc44.x86_64
keditbookmarks-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
kwin-libs-6.7.5-1.fc44.x86_64
krfb-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
kjournald-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
plasma-discover-libs-6.7.5-1.fc44.x86_64
kde-connect-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
kate-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
qt6-qttools-libs-designer-6.11.2-1.fc44.x86_64
kf6-baloo-libs-6.30.0-1.fc44.x86_64
dolphin-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
ark-libs-26.08.0-1.fc44.x86_64
qt6-qttools-libs-help-6.11.2-1.fc44.x86_64
krdp-libs-6.7.5-1.fc44.x86_64
plasma-print-manager-libs-6.7.5-1.fc44.x86_64
ImageMagick-libs-7.1.2.27-1.fc44.x86_64
libsane-hpaio-3.26.4-7.fc44.x86_64
criu-libs-4.2.1-1.fc44.x86_64
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda-libs-610.57.04-1.fc44.x86_64
gperftools-libs-2.18.1-1.fc44.x86_64
daxctl-libs-85-1.fc44.x86_64
ndctl-libs-85-1.fc44.x86_64
xen-libs-4.21.2-1.fc44.x86_64
qatzip-libs-2.0.0-1.fc44.x86_64
swtpm-libs-0.10.2-1.fc44.x86_64
device-mapper-multipath-libs-0.13.1-1.fc44.x86_64
fakeroot-libs-1.37.1-4.fc44.x86_64
igvm-libs-0.4.0-10.fc44.x86_64
isns-utils-libs-0.103-4.fc44.x86_64
libssh2-1.11.1-9.fc44.x86_64
libvirt-libs-12.0.0-3.fc44.x86_64
perl-libs-5.42.3-525.fc44.x86_64
vvenc-libs-1.13.1-5.fc44.x86_64
x264-libs-0.165-5.20250608gitb35605ac.fc44.x86_64
x265-libs-4.1-4.fc44.x86_64
ffmpeg-libs-8.1.2-3.fc44.x86_64
libstdc++-16.2.1-2.fc44.i686
spirv-tools-libs-2026.1-1.fc44.i686
lm_sensors-libs-3.6.0-24.fc44.i686
ncurses-libs-6.6-1.fc44.i686
systemd-libs-259.8-1.fc44.i686
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda-libs-610.57.04-1.fc44.i686
xz-libs-5.8.2-2.fc44.i686
fuse-libs-2.9.9-25.fc44.x86_64
llvm-libs-22.1.8-4.fc44.i686
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs-610.57.04-1.fc44.i686
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs-610.57.04-1.fc44.x86_64
cacusioh@kinoite:~$

Nuthin' but a lonely cricket ...

Dan — Sun, 06 Sep 2026 00:38:46 GMT

... and the faint sound of a distant CPU cooler. <..:eek:..>

Screenshot at 2026-09-05 18-20-14.jpg

Must have been a very good day to get out. Hope everyone had a fantastic afternoon!

Attached Images

Screenshot at 2026-09-05 18-20-14.jpg (101.6 KB)

Anyone experimenting with Omarchy Linux

lsatenstein — Fri, 04 Sep 2026 17:36:39 GMT

I started to examine it, as a way to learn another man's way of thinking and creativity.
If you are heavy into programming, I believe it to be a most useful interface.
The learning curve is easy for new software engineering students, but for we old gentlemen and ladies,
our expression is "Do I need a university degree to make use of Omarchy?"

BTW. With Omarchy, gasp,, the super-key is the Windows-key

Gnome makes use of the left super-key

lsatenstein — Fri, 04 Sep 2026 17:29:53 GMT

I use Linux with a Canadian French keyboard. Mechanically, the difference between the American keyboard and the CA version is the one extra key at the bottom left, next to the left shift key. It is used for the three characters �� . Other key combinations give me accented characters. (USA layout plus-plus)

This is not what the following is about.
First.
As a habit, I have my gnome favourites setup on the "dash", the lower bar. It contains the logos for firefox, calendar, ...terminal, ...
And that dash pops up along the bottom when I press either the right or left windows key.

For this post, I name the left window key the super-key

Given we have no need for the window key, I looked at what happens (Gnome), when I press the super-key and one of the numbered keys.
If I hold the super-key and press 1, this action is equivalent to my pressing the left most icon shown in the dash (My firefox program).
If I hold the super-key and press 2, this action is as if I pressed the second from the second dash icon (Meld program)

Summary: The Super-key followed by a number (1-9), it opens that program represented by the icon's position on the bar.

Has this feature been there for all gnome versions? (I am using Gnome 45 beta) or is it something that I just woke up to explore?
From my list of icons, Super-key 9 opens my terminal mode.

If this feature has been present since day zero, where have I been for the past 20 years of my dedicated gnome use?
My favourite expression under my signature seems to persist as a description of me.

Two git repositories

lsatenstein — Wed, 02 Sep 2026 02:18:32 GMT

As a hobby, and a serious hobby, I developed some data security tools.

This is the download link Scandir.git
Data encryption routines for Scarbanes Oxly quality. Sources included

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15Ld...ew?usp=sharing

Code:

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 17728 Aug 22 10:46 sha1

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 17528 Aug 22 10:46 sha1sum

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 17776 Aug 22 10:46 soxcrc

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 63960 Aug 22 10:46 soxdircmp

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 53160 Aug 22 10:46 soxdircrc

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 31184 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirdif

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 48608 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirdup

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 50776 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirdupnew

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 57328 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirmd5

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 63632 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirsha1

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 63632 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirsha1a

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 61640 Aug 22 10:46 soxdirsha256

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 18344 Aug 22 10:46 soxmd5

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 14272 Aug 22 10:46 soxprepdup

-rwxr-xr-x. 1 leslie leslie 22312 Aug 22 10:46 soxsha1

The following is a /etc/fstab reformatter validator that now includes support
for https, ntfs, ext4 btrfs xfs, swap, etc
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ss-...ew?usp=sharing fstab.git 01Sept2026

fstabxref, xstabxref (identical, make changes to the latter first)
two other pgms. (to help recreate a lost /etc/fstab file

Daylight saving time and Standard time

lsatenstein — Tue, 01 Sep 2026 18:04:39 GMT

Are we in North America going to return to Standard time this fall (1 November)?

Montreal, Plattsburg, New York are on the eastern edge of the timezone. In summer, daylight at 4am DST. and in winter daylight at 7:15am ST--sunshine around 7:30am.

If we are not going to switch for the coming years, which hour from GMT do we use for EST?

[SOLVED] Is there a free online phone tech number to read back dialed numbers

marko — Fri, 28 Aug 2026 23:20:40 GMT

I have a phone with an unknown number programmed into one of the speed buttons.
I want to retrieve that number but that phone doesn't have a LCD readout to show the programmed numbers.

I was thinking there might be a phone number that phone techs use that can be dialed and if I were to press the button after dialing that service the system on the other end could intepret the tones and read back the number?

I did search for "dial tone readback servive" and found this URL

https://testcall.com/804-222-1111/

In there was "option 2" after you dial into 804-222-1111

Quote:

Press 2 for a DTMF Test

You hear a beep.
Enter your digits such as 1234567890 and press #
The touch tones tones are spoken back to you.

Have you ever called a voicemail system or bank by phone system and not been able to make menu selections? This test helps confirm the source of common “after connect” DTMF dialing issues on VOIP telephone systems and services..

My phone service is FIOS phone. I think Dial Tone Multi-Freq (DTMF) is also used on old style phones and VOIP apparently so maybe that would still work.

What do "serviceworkers" in browsers actually do?

marko — Thu, 27 Aug 2026 12:46:01 GMT

I see in my about:serviceworkers on Firefox some workers for my email portal login, a few forums I read (kde forum, fedoraproject).

Is it right what those are for is real time notifications? Because if so it's not working because I've never seen one.

On some of my Firefox's, I was mystified what they were for and so turned the whole feature off in about:config and saw nothing obvious at all missing.

I found a chrome based explanation:
https://developer.chrome.com/docs/wo...rker-overview/

So maybe it's just a performance enhancement, so pages you repetitively go to can cache frequently reused code.

But I'd think it might be a risk of fingerprinting by putting state information into the cached code. I don't suspect that's why it was designed but it could probably be used that way. I'll probably turn if off since I've never seen anything bad happen on browsers without serviceworkers.

How to turn off:
set about:config setting "dom.serviceWorkers.enabled" to "false"
Confirm by "about:serviceworkers" showing a page "Service Workers are not enabled"

This URL covers someone claiming they can be misused to mine personal data
https://docs.bswen.com/blog/2026-04-...-workers-data/

Annoying Google

Dan — Tue, 25 Aug 2026 18:55:43 GMT

Turn about is fair play ... but they don't make it easy.

Google prodded me again a week or so, ago. "Your storage limit is 75% full." Not at all surprising. They also did that six months ago, so I emptied my trash folder. Again three months ago, so I deleted the backlog of fedoraforum emails. No skill or finesse involved. I just randomly selected a block from a year or so ago, and blew them all back to digital entropy.

So, today, trying very hard to avoid another chore I've got to do, I saved a few emails locally, then went high order on the rest. Opened All Mail, scrolled to the bottom, selected the bottom entry -- scrolled to the top, [shift]+[click]ed the top one, waited for a few minutes for the stack to populate ... and hit the delete button. Thunderbird dutifully commenced chewing on the problem. Not an easy task. There were 27,695 emails (with collapsed answer chains) in the que. I went to get a glass of cold tea.

I got back in time to see a pop-up from Thunderbird. The operation has failed. Google reset the connection mid-wipe. Thunderbird then started re-downloading 6700 emails. (Mozilla really needs to put in a big red, "STOP THAT!" button.)

Not optimal.

So, I waited for the window to stabilize, and then did it again. Three minutes later, Thunderbird tells me Google barfed out again. When it re-connects, Google proceeds to attempt to re-stuff 17,000 emails back into my local machine.

Blue language ensued.

In the end, after several tries, I hit on the best method. Regardless of what Google was trying to feed back in, I selected a year's worth of emails at a time, and deleted those. Then another. Then another. All told, it took 20 laps around the mulberry bush to get it all cleaned out. (2006 to 2026). And Gmail is still trying to clean up the ghosts and debris.

Serves 'em right. <..:dis:..>

And ... just to keep them from getting stupid and closing the account, I left the first two confirmation and welcome emails from 2006 sitting in the inbox.

That'll fix 'em! <..:rolleyes:..>

How to do it online for the average user?

Joelena — Sat, 22 Aug 2026 18:47:30 GMT

...and what can we expect for the 2-3 coming years?

5 minutes reading.

I remember that before computers became widely available, advertisers were happy when they managed to �target housewives under fifty.�

A few years later, I clearly remember discussions among people with advanced degrees�but who knew nothing about computers�who were convinced that a human was tailoring the ads they saw on the internet.
That�s true :)

I can easily imagine that the vast majority of forum members take great care with their practices, from passwords all the way to xyz.
But I also notice that on the other side of the internet, the so called �data leaks� (as if they just slipped out on their own), along with other breaches and data exfiltrations, are becoming increasingly common.

I also remember that about two years ago, another forum member started a thread about a massive theft of medical data in the U.S.
Unfortunately, I see that there have been others since then.
And, as far as I know, fresh medical data is very valuable.

It's the same in Europe.
From real estate agencies�which require a lot of documentation�to government websites, everything is included.

A software used by doctors was hacked, and data was exposed�including the doctors� personal notes about what they �understood� from their patients� opinions.

I remember an old junk email address I�d used to sign up for a few insignificant websites.
I lost access to that email address because I forgot the password.
Every now and then, out of curiosity, I check that email address on �Have I Been Pwned�
One of those sites was hacked, and the first data breach was made public more than ten years ago:
200k accounts.
But over the past five years, this email address has appeared in several databases along with a few billion others.

What I�ve noticed around me is that nobody cares at all.
Including a former friend (R.I.P) who told me about problems with his bank, that his email address had changed on his phone, and so on.
Half an hour of simple searches using his name, phone number, and primary email address: he�s everywhere.
Later, he didn�t want to hear anything �because it works.�

In closing: In light of all these problems in Europe, I came across the 2025 report from �Europol� (the European police) on the exploitation of data.
With the help of AIs, it�s become frightening: from extremely well-personalized phishing attempts all the way to [censored].

I pay attention to my level, but there�s nothing I can do if my personal data stored on a government website is leaked because some senior official who�s clueless about IT is messing things up, and the infrastructure allows him to log in with high privileges without 2FA.

What can I do as a lambda person?
Go back to the MS ecosystem and sign up everywhere to post selfies so I can feel like I'm alive while I wait for the unknown? No, thanks.

Obs 1: I could also have talked about the European GDPR�which I read in its entirety after a curious ahem �symptom� on a specific day�and the laws that will be enacted shortly, but this thread would quickly turn political, and an admin would have to close it.

Obs 2: This topic is intentionally posted here, in the �Wibble� section, rather than in �Privacy and Security,� in the hope of getting something else...

Dan's seeing things again ...

Dan — Fri, 21 Aug 2026 16:06:18 GMT

In this morning's sunrise:

If you can actually see a folded-winged dragon making an inside turning pass -- and properly roasting something behind that tree ... ... You're just as nuts as I am. <..:p..>

FF-Dragon-Pass.jpg

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How secure are docx files from embedded code or scripts

marko — Wed, 19 Aug 2026 15:55:58 GMT

I used an online free service to build a complicated legal form. I usually avoid those because if you review the fine print they reserve the right to give away your information. Frequently there's a "do not sell my private information" web widget but even if you select that, who trusts that? I don't. Plus they could still "give" information away.
Plus some of these forms are not even trustable people. The form I'm filling out is mundane enough to not be worth the exorbitant fee of a lawyer.

But it seemed reasonably safe to simply put fake names, numbers, addresses in for all the principals. Like 555-444-1234 and 123 Fake Street.
When I was done it generated a file template as a docx which I downloaded. The other options instead of docx are pdf and plain text. So docx is the best option for me to edit back in the real information and still have the formatting.

So the question I have is, how to review the docx or its extracted files to make sure there's no embedded code or scripting I don't want in there?
In Libreoffice I used "Tools" -> "Macros" -> "Edit Macros" but didn't see any macros. But I'm wondering if there's any other things to look for.