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Staceman
15th July 2005, 08:18 PM
I haven't tried it yet, but has anyone else tried installing FC4 on any of the "OldWorld" Macs, such as the PowerMac 9600?

I know that they claims a NewWorld machine is necessary, but would it be possible to install on the late 90's PM models with BootX or XPostFacto or something of the like?

tejas
15th July 2005, 08:27 PM
RAM? I am running FC4 on 128Mb RAM, 512Mb Swapspace, and I doubt it will run on less.

However, you can try any live cd:

www.livecdlist.com

esp damn small linux (damnsmalllinux.org)

Staceman
15th July 2005, 08:33 PM
The machine is more than capable:

PowerMac9600, 896MB RAM, Sonnet 800mhz G4 upgrade card, plenty of HD space.

The OldWorld machines are a bit bottlenecked with only a 50mhz bus speed and the older, slower regular DRAM, but even Panther and Tiger are very usable for most things on it, using XPostFacto to install.

tejas
15th July 2005, 09:04 PM
lol, really? Looks like I jumped the gun a bit. Sorry.

Right now, I have one computer (I mean actual computer). It has 128Mb RAM, 650 Mhz. And I am running FC4 on it, and it is quite fast.

I do feel, however, that any lower won't work.

I was just saying so, because last month I installed Damn Small Linux on a laptop with 16Mb RAM, in under 100Mb HDD space.

I assumed Old World was a really old comp. Anyway, you have a fast comp. Noting to worry about there. Just install

Staceman
15th July 2005, 09:16 PM
Unfortunately, there is something to worry about. There's a big difference between what I guess you'd call the "BIOS" on a Mac, which they call "OpenFirmware", between the OldWorld machines, and the NewWorld machines. "OldWorld" generally refers to the original PCI PowerMacs, released in the late 90's, and not the really old Macs. "NewWorld" machines, started with the first (stock) G3 machines.

In the system requirements for FC4-PPC, they point out that you need a NewWorld machine, and there's probably good reason for that, by default. However, just as there are helper utilities to make it possible to install Mac OS X and Darwin on these older machines, I was wondering if these same tools make it possible to install FC4. By default, OS X and Darwin check to see what kind of machine you're running, and refuse to install if it sees the machine as an OldWorld machine. But it goes much further than that, there are actual functional differences between Old and New, and the utilities patch things up there as well.

It's all good. I just need to get in there and get my hands dirty and give it a whirl, if no one has any prior experience they can share on here. Thanks for trying to help, anyway. :)

Spoon!
10th August 2005, 12:04 AM
If you want to find out about what changes you need to make in Open Firmware, these sites are helpful:
* http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/models.html
* http://www.penguinppc.org/bootloaders/quik/

There are two bootloaders you can use:
quik - boots from Open Firmware and recommended
BootX - dual-boots from a classic MacOS system (requires separate Linux and MacOS partitions)

As for boot disks and such, I've had luck with the Debian install disks here:
ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/woody/main/disks-powerpc/current/powermac/images-1.44/
The "boot-floppy-hfs.img" is a MacOS boot disk that boots the Linux kernel, then asks you for the "root.bin" disk which contains the Debian installer (which also installs quik for you). You can use this script (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=26320&package_id=34718&release_id=66668) in MacOS to write the floppy images.

Hope this helps.

Staceman
10th August 2005, 02:45 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I've been reading around about the various boot loaders, but haven't had time to play around with them. One question I still had, was about the installer for Fedora. I'm curious about whether or not it detects that you're on an OldWorld machine, and therefore won't allow you to even begin the install. Or if it installs fine, it just won't boot into the Linux install, thus requiring one of the boot loader programs.

I guess the best way to find out, is to try it! :) It's always on my list of 'things to do', that I never seem to get around to doing. :(

I have a hunch that FC4 on this souped up thing will run better than OS X does on it. OS X is usable with it, it just tends to get sluggish when more than one application is running, due to the heavy graphics and slow system bus. It has 896MB RAM, though it is the older, slower plain DRAM.

Staceman
11th August 2005, 07:10 PM
Well, last night I finally got around to trying to install FC4 on the OldWorld machine.

I couldn't even boot the CD by holding the C key on startup. I then went into the Startup Disk control panel, and it didn't recognize the Fedora CD as a bootable disk.

So, it's back to the drawing board...

Spoon!
11th August 2005, 09:52 PM
You can't boot LiveCDs on Old World machines. You will have to use something like the Debian boot floppy or install BootX in MacOS. Also, MacOS X doesn't run on Old World machines.

gavinw6662
12th August 2005, 12:29 AM
i would have to say, I tried on a celeron 1,7 with 128 mg of ram, and it sucked. FC requires a lot to run graphically.

Staceman
1st December 2005, 09:13 PM
You can't boot LiveCDs on Old World machines. You will have to use something like the Debian boot floppy or install BootX in MacOS.

Just for the record, it wasn't a LiveCD that I was trying to boot.

Also, MacOS X doesn't run on Old World machines.

Oh. Darn. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess the times that I was running Mac OS X 10.1, then 10.2, then 10.3, and soon to be 10.4 on my OldWorld PowerMac 9600, I was hallucinating. And I guess the tool known as XPostFacto, that allows Mac OS X to be installed on OldWorld machines, is also a figment of my imagination. ;)

Spoon!
1st December 2005, 10:02 PM
Just for the record, it wasn't a LiveCD that I was trying to boot.
Sorry, I meant there is no free software CD that will boot on an Old World Mac.

Oh. Darn. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess the times that I was running Mac OS X 10.1, then 10.2, then 10.3, and soon to be 10.4 on my OldWorld PowerMac 9600, I was hallucinating. And I guess the tool known as XPostFacto, that allows Mac OS X to be installed on OldWorld machines, is also a figment of my imagination. ;)
(When I said OldWorld, I meant to say pre-G3.) Well, officially, the official Mac OS X system requirements says it requires a G3. I wasn't aware that there was third-party software that allows it to run on other systems.

kmberry
28th February 2006, 05:03 AM
I use BootX on my 8600 with 32MB ram. I don't have enough ram to see if the FC5 installer would finish, but it works on the ydl kernel(bootX won't see the fedora kernel and reverts to ydl kernel even though I removed all instances of it, but the fedora ramdisk image is ok--no initrd?)so I am going to buy some dram to see if I can use it(still need a kernel that works). First, I tried Debian woody using my 3.5" drive using their instructions about using Open Firmware and BootX, but using their updater I installed a couple of thousand rpms I didn't need and the machine bogged down to unusable. Next, I read the post about using YDL 3 minimum install with a roll your own and 1 kernel was available that you could use over the net. I used YDL 4 which would never install properly as most of it never worked. Right now I am still trying to install FC5 on top of YDL 4 for about the 3 time so I can build a bootable kernel. One time I got all of X installed and working, another time I went for getting yum working and died on elfutils or beecrypt or something like that. Glibc never would update and left alot of locale files unwritable so updating glibc and glibc-common doesn't work. Most files won't even install but rpm says they are sort of. Last time I posted this to this forum or "LinuxQuestions.org" and gave up. My reasoning is that on my intel if I do an FC4 install and try to lay FC5 on top of it rpm by rpm from inside it will break something and it is an even worse situation if you try to install FC5 on a fresh FC3 install so using yum or an installer is the only way it might work(if I had enough ram-40 or 50 dollars worth). It seems that if YDL bases there distro on fedora it is not recent enough as of YDL 4.0 to survive an rpm by rpm install of FC5. On "distrowatch.com/?newsid=03158#0" last seen Feb. 27. 2006 YDL 4.1 is announced and you have to pay for it, but YDL says in the installation notes as of YDL 4.0 they no longer support oldworld and this doesn't mean it won't work with bootX?( My YDL 4.0 installed and works, but the install was pretty bad). I never could find the YDL 4.1 yum repository and now my yum is dead trying to get to FC5. YDL 4.1 has a 2.6.15-rc5 kernel but Im not paying for it. One time I tried using Mandriva CD install but it wouldn't boot the installer. I didn't try "en.opensuse.org/PPC:Boot_pmac_oldworld" last seen Feb. 27, 2006. I see Unbutu does an oldworld using OS9 and OS7('stuporglue.org/oldworld.php" last seen on Feb. 27, 2006), but I only have OS8 with bootx working.

seagoon
28th February 2006, 11:49 PM
I have a PowerMaC 9600 200 Mhz with 400 MB of RAM and 8 GB hard drive space, will FC 4/5 run on this properly?...and install with any issues?