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View Full Version : Hello! and some feedback from a F18 install



gcbfedora
18th December 2012, 09:28 PM
Hi everyone. I've been away from red hat distros from a long time (used RH around 95-96 after a couple years using slack. then used conectiva a little and moved to debian distros where i was until now ...well that at home, at work it always been pretty much only RH)

After almost going crazy while trying to install linux on a machine without a HD (from one USB stick partition to another) fedora18 was the only one that allowed me to do that with little trouble, so i will be moving back :)

I must say the install (with the live image) was a great experience, and much more comfortable than even ubuntu. and differently from the debian one, the live image gives me enough tools to solve problems during the install just fine.

I don't know if this would be a good place to provide feedback, but here it is:
- I was shocked by the limited control i had when creating the partitions (or lvm volumes, etc)... or how i couldn't create a partition at all! the installer showed me two lists on the left "fedora, unused" (or unknown)... and all i could do was select to use one existing partition or not. i think this is the most limited control over disk ever.
- i also tried to work around this by creating the partition on fdisk and restarting the installer, but it had the partiion table saved somewhere else, ended up rebooting the whole thing and starting over after creating the partitions i needed.

- couldn't install to the same disk i was booting from. i had two 16GB usb sticks. my plan was:
1. create a partition for use with swap later, but put the fedora live install there.
2. boot the live install, install on the second partition of the usb stick
3. boot the new instalation, make partition 1 swap.
but during the install, the installer wouldn't even list the initial disk on the "pick a destination disk" screen. had to work around using a second usb stick.


- the idea of allowing bugzilla tickets to be submited from the install is awesome, but if you type the wrong password once, there's no obvious way to fix it... i opened a ticked about that. (and later had to copy paste the actual crash report on the browser, and probably selected the wrong component :(

all in all, it was a good experience, all the "issues" had workarounds, and was the only one (of 7 recent distros i tested) that allowed me to accomplish my goals. Thank you.

And since i'm running the testing version, are there any automated (or not) post-install reports i may submit like debian has for hardware support?

edit:
and this was some great info to go over after the F18 install... specially if you need X's 3button emulation in gnome3 (as it now ignores the xorg setting :/
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GNOME

Dan
18th December 2012, 09:56 PM
Glad it's working for you, but your feedback is not likely to reach the correct people unless Adam happens to stumble on this thread. Better to go to the fedora project website on the communication page and contact them directly. There is a link on the menu bar above under the "FedoraProject" menu item.

bob
18th December 2012, 10:08 PM
Moved to F18 Development

smr54
18th December 2012, 11:16 PM
To save you from a rather unintuitive navigation (the "contact" is in _tiny_ letters at the very bottom of the Fedora page, which will then send you to a page that makes it look as if you might want to start by interacting with the forum)

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicating_and_getting_help?rd=Communicate


(Above the part where it suggests the forums.)

It can be confusing. Generally, the forums are where you go to get help, and bugzilla is the best place to offer feedback, bug reports (obviously) and feature requests. (And as the forums are probably the best place to get help, they get mentioned on the Communicate page).

AdamW
19th December 2012, 02:00 AM
that's okay, I'm on the case...

So!

"I was shocked by the limited control i had when creating the partitions (or lvm volumes, etc)... or how i couldn't create a partition at all! the installer showed me two lists on the left "fedora, unused" (or unknown)... and all i could do was select to use one existing partition or not. i think this is the most limited control over disk ever."

Ah, another poor innocent soul gets fed into the newUI custom partitioning meat grinder =) If you've been away for a while, you may not know that the installer UI in F18 is completely new. It's the first release with a ground-up rewrite of the installer UI. Most of it is working great and getting good feedback, but partitioning is something of an exception. We're trying a somewhat new approach. The bones of it are there in F18, but it clearly needs some tweaking to make it more clear and discoverable what's going on. We will be improving the partitioning experience in F19.

With that in mind, here's what you need to know: the basic design of custom partitioning, as you seem to have caught, is that the left hand pane shows partitions/volumes, grouped by operating system. There is a group for each existing OS, one named 'Unknown' if anaconda can't figure what OS any partition is associated with, and a group for the proposed new F18 install. So the left hand pane is displaying *both* existing partitions *and* planned new partitions, which is one of the sources of confusion.

What you may not have caught is you can do most of the customization of both existing and new partitions on the *right* hand pane, but you need to expand the box marked 'Customize...' to see most of the options. (Lots of people seem to be missing that).

If you want to create new partitions for the F18 install, you can click the text that says 'Create them for me automatically' - which will create a default layout using whatever empty space is available given your current choices - and then customize from there. Or you can do it all manually. At the bottom of the left hand pane are three buttons, a +, a -, and a 'toolbox' thing. The + button lets you create a new partition, the - button lets you delete an existing one, and the toolbox button sets certain parameters of the selected partition (why some stuff is on this screen but most stuff is in the right hand pane is somewhat obscure in F18, but will hopefully be clearer in future releases). So you can hit +, set a mount point and size for your new partition, then select it and do further customization from the right-hand pane.

Hope that makes the layout a bit clearer! Note that the pretty extensive Fedora Installation Guide is being updated for F18, so should provide a decent guide to the new layout for those who are inclined to read documentation. :) edit - the other key thing to be aware of is that absolutely everything you do before you hit 'Begin Installation' on the hub screen is just a plan. Nothing actually _happens_ until you hit that button, including any partitioning action at all. You can fiddle around with the partitioning path to your heart's content and none of it is really *done* until you hit 'Begin Installation'. So feel free to poke around, you can always bail if you think you screwed up.

"- i also tried to work around this by creating the partition on fdisk and restarting the installer, but it had the partiion table saved somewhere else, ended up rebooting the whole thing and starting over after creating the partitions i needed."

yeah, if you do stuff to the existing partitions behind the installer's back you have to reboot for it to pick up the changes.

" but during the install, the installer wouldn't even list the initial disk on the "pick a destination disk" screen. had to work around using a second usb stick."

yeah, that's by design, actually - we filter out the USB stick you're installing from as a valid install target intentionally. You could theoretically do this if you were very careful, but there's just too much potential for it to go horribly wrong for us to want to allow it. (when we *didn't* filter it out, stuff got screwed up all the time.)

"- the idea of allowing bugzilla tickets to be submited from the install is awesome, but if you type the wrong password once, there's no obvious way to fix it... i opened a ticked about that"

Heh, I've always vaguely wondered what happens if you get the BZ password wrong, but somehow have never managed to fat-finger it yet. What's the URL to the report you filed? Thanks!

Dan
19th December 2012, 02:02 AM
Outstanding! <..:thumb:..>

richardlu
23rd December 2012, 06:28 AM
Just had a few fun and games installing on a tablet/laptop.

Firstly there are the EFI problems. I turned off secure boot. I actually want a dual boot with Win 8 so I installed it Windows 8 and shrunk the Windows partition. At this point for the benefit of your own sanity make a disk image backup with clonezilla or similar. Note the existing partitions, if things don't go to plan you might be wanting to delete any ones created in failed installation attempts.

Running in EFI mode getting a boot from an external DVD was not as easy as it should be. Installing from a livecd was confirmed not to work.

I was installing onto an i5 tablet with an 11.6 inch high def screen. Set the boot order to the DVD as you will need a magnifying glass to read the screen otherwise. An alternative font size option is going to be a requirement if these high def tablets really take-off.

Now where things started to unravel were:

1. The docked keyboard appears to be usb. Typing was erratic, possibly made worse if the stylus pen was moved. On a few occasions the installer failed at the found network screen.

2. Most of the problems were at the partitioning stage. Following the known issues the /boot partition is ext3.

The easiest method of partitioning was to double click on the Storage icon and select manual partitioning. Once at the partitioning screen click on the link to let the system determine the partitioning.

Now delete the swap partition - this is a SSD.

The /boot partition should not be LVM. The EFI boot does not seem to be able to find the /boot partition otherwise. Following the installation instructions the /boot partition is changed to ext3.

Do not be too tempted to fiddle with the sizes of the /home and / partitions. I suspect that the algorithm for partitioning has a bug in it. If you do the installer will most probably panic after you have spent a lot time deliberating over the packages to be installed. The most common panic was not enough space and yet the interface said there was unallocated space.

If you are lucky all will work.

If you are tempted to reinstall, boot with the installer DVD and delete the relevant partitions before rebooting into the installer. The kernel needs to have its idea of the partitioning updated. The partitioner in the installer can delete partitions, but you risk many a fruitless attempts were the partitioner panics because it thinks that the disk space is over allocated.

Once up and running there are a few problems. The installer finds the EFI partition for windows but appears to treat it as a BIOS boot. I tried getting grub to chainload windows as per various posts (mainly Ubuntu) but to no avail. You can boot though through the the EFI bios from a cold boot.

The other issue is trying to get wine and google-earth running. Both use 32bit binaries which are not in the standard 64bit repositories.

The good things are though that the touch screen and stylus work well. I plugged a cheap usb-network adapter in and it was recognised without having to find drivers etc, something that win 8 didn't. There is also a start button!

I'm looking forward to the full release.