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hadrons123
18th December 2012, 05:53 PM
I started using dnf, for the last couple of days. Is there anything that dnf wouldn't do which only yum can do?

glennzo
18th December 2012, 06:38 PM
Your mention of DNF piqued my curiosity so I checked it out.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DNF#Owner

There are warnings there that this is not a finished product but it looks as though you can play with it to you're hearts content and you *shouldn't* have any issues.

By the way, I just installed it and intend to give it a good test drive.

hadrons123
18th December 2012, 06:50 PM
Thanks But I saw that already and the man page too, I was wondering if anyone else found any hicoughs with dnf.

glennzo
18th December 2012, 07:04 PM
I was just comparing a few basic commands.

dnf clean all worked fine
dnf check- update showed no updates available

Then
yum clean all worked fine
yum check-update showed some selinux updates

Then
dnf update said no update available

A hiccup for sure. To be expected I guess.

Also dnf info <packagename> was the same as yum info <packagename>

hadrons123
18th December 2012, 07:34 PM
I too hit the same thing right now. I was going to post it myself but you just beat me.

But for me after dnf clean all && dnf -y upgrade worked. But whereas just dnf -y upgrade without dnf clean all shows no updates.

dnf dist-sync doesn't work too.

glennzo
18th December 2012, 07:42 PM
I'm sure we can expect to see some odd behavior for quite some time. This package is in it's infancy and is not meant to replace yum just yet.

nonamedotc
18th December 2012, 09:21 PM
I think the last time I used dnf was in F18 pre-alpha or alpha stages. I noticed some differences in dependency resolution then.

I had a post here in the forum about that. I think I tried to install firefox, yum pulled fedora-bookmarks while dnf installed astronomy-bookmarks (or something like that) ...

AdamW
19th December 2012, 01:55 AM
yeah. I'm slightly sceptical about dnf, personally (this is all Fedora inside baseball of course) - it seems to have started from the starting point 'man, yum is so big and complicated and slow, let's write something small and simple and fast!', which sounds great, except most of the things which make yum big and complicated and slow are not bloat but sadly necessary code, like finessing algorithms so you get sane results from operations just like the one nonamedotc tested.

What I suspect (fear) will happen is they'll start from a nice clean fast base (already got that - writing a nice simple clean fast depsolver isn't actually a hugely complex task) and then come across all these little corner cases and write in little exceptions for them...and in three years when they're done doing that, what they'll have is yum, because that's exactly how yum got written. :)

but we'll see...

hadrons123
19th December 2012, 02:10 AM
I think dnf uses the same backend and I honestly feel both dnf and yum are same speed wise.

But downloading around 30mb of repodata for 33000 packages is what bothers me in yum or dnf. Pacman in archlinux only has 3 mb of package data to download for 10000 packages.

glennzo
19th December 2012, 09:12 AM
I used DNF to update my F18 box this morning . One thing I noticed right away is that it doesn't ask yes/no when you issue dnf update. Not good.

Looks and acts very much like yum which, if I understand correctly, shouldn't be surprising given that they both share a lot of the same code. I do wonder how using dnf in conjunctin with yum is going to effect the yum databases?

AdamW
19th December 2012, 11:48 PM
"I think dnf uses the same backend and I honestly feel both dnf and yum are same speed wise."

Other way around - they're basically the same *front end* code (dnf is a fork of yum) with a different backend (dnf uses libsolv via hawkey).

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DNF

I may have gotten dnf mixed up with another mooted 'next-gen package manager' though, I think dnf is the more moderate plan from the existing yum team, and there's something else which was a complete rewrite in C or something.

Demz3
20th December 2012, 12:10 AM
iv'e tried dnf myself, an IMO feel that dnf is faster than yum but at this time i think its a bit to early to be comparing it to yum as it still has a long way to go before its finished

vallimar
20th December 2012, 05:18 PM
I tried it out on a test install.. other than the difference with updates you noticed, when I tried to uninstall a package, dnf wanted to remove half my system alongside it. Yum only wanted to remove the package, as expected. I couldn't uninstall dnf fast enough after that.

glennzo
20th December 2012, 11:50 PM
I tried it out on a test install.. other than the difference with updates you noticed, when I tried to uninstall a package, dnf wanted to remove half my system alongside it. Yum only wanted to remove the package, as expected. I couldn't uninstall dnf fast enough after that.
Sure. DNF is nowhere near finished so we've got to expect odd behavior from it. I've installed it and I experiment with it just to see what it can and can't do. I'm sure it won't be replacing yum any time soon.