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Tedel
13th November 2011, 09:22 AM
Hello,

mm... I don't know exactly how to post this, so I'll just say it: There are many applications I sincerely doubt I will ever use, and I would like to remove them from my system. The problem is that, if I try to remove them with yum erase, the system wants to remove dependencies that seems to be more important too, like kdebase. I am feeling like "trapped" by the desktop, and I don't know exactly what to do.

To state it more specifically, here a sample of software I am pretty sure I will not use except for perhaps checking what they look like: Kmail, Krusader, Amarok, Akonadi, Nepomuk, KAlarm, Brasero, Movieplayer, Rhythmbox, Kfloppy, wallet/keyring, BlueDevil, Konversation, Ktorrent, Kget, Marble or the backup tools, as I am used to doing backups myself.

I also think it is necessary for me to remove them, because I really don't want to download updates for software Śno offenceŚ I couldn't care less about. Not to mention I have a somewhat limited Internet connection, and I do need to save some bandwidth to keep going.

Well, if any of you can enlighten me on how to achieve this, I will appreciate it much.

If you don't mind a friendly suggestion: Perhaps it could be arranged that Fedora 17 included two new groups, @kde-minimal and @gnome-minimal, with just what you need to make the desktop environments work? Sure they won't be for everybody, but it could allow those like me who like, wish or want to customize their desktops a little to do it in an easier way.

Well, thanks everybody for reading and your replies.

kurtdriver
13th November 2011, 09:38 AM
Do

rpm -e --nodeps kmail and it's gone.
I've no idea if yum will try to install it on your next update, likely will as some other package claims it as a dependency. If that happens you can exclude them permanently in /etc/yum/yum.conf.
In looking at your list I realized that I don't use any of those programs. I've gone in and removed language packs, and fonts, but never a wholesale removal as you're planning, good luck and keep us informed on the results, please.

For your next installation you might want to do a minimal install and then add packages that you want.

flyingfsck
13th November 2011, 09:52 AM
Hmm, uninstalling stuff is somewhat like trying to unscramble an egg and although the rpm database is pretty good at tracking dependencies, if you uninstall multiple things, you are practically guaranteed to break your system, since sooner or later something important will be erroneously removed.

Therefore the better way to get a lean system is not to install unnecessary stuff in the first place. The easy way to do that, is to install a server version, then add what you want to that.

smr54
13th November 2011, 01:15 PM
It looks as if you have KDE. Both it and Gnome are probably more fragile than a window manager (as opposed to desktop environment) such as fluxbox.

It is definitely easier, especially if you don't need KDE, to do as flyingfsck says, do a minimal install and add on. Even then, you'll find dependencies that probably don't make sense, or aren't needed, but far less than you would get with KDE or Gnome, both of which will come with their own version of system tools, scanning tools, mail client, and so on.

Adunaic
13th November 2011, 01:35 PM
If you don't mind a friendly suggestion: Perhaps it could be arranged that Fedora 17 included two new groups, @kde-minimal and @gnome-minimal, with just what you need to make the desktop environments work? Sure they won't be for everybody, but it could allow those like me who like, wish or want to customize their desktops a little to do it in an easier way.


Esentially there is already a "minimal" group. You just have to tweak yum.

you need to edit /etc/yum.conf and add line group_package_types=mandatory;

Groups have mandatory, default and optional.

I do not think this will help you and I have found some of the dependencies a little screwed up (i.e. GNOME depends on gnome-calculator, so it cannot be unistalled.)

Tedel
13th November 2011, 05:01 PM
Thank you for the replies.

I didn't know there was a minimal install option. At least, I didn't find it in the liveCD I downloaded to install 16. Perhaps I missed to see it.

Well, I don't feel like reformatting my computer to start from scratch, but I may take te server suggestion for 17. Thank you.

I start removing, and let you know.

smr54
13th November 2011, 05:12 PM
No, you don't have such an option on the live CD. The live CD will pretty much install what you see when you run it live--it's a working image copied to your drive, with limitations on package selection and, I think, drive partitioning.

To get the minimal option you can use the boot.iso and choose network install, or download the whole DVD. I can't think, off the top of my head, of any others that offer the various options. Some of them are Gnome desktop, which I think is the default, KDE desktop, possibly XFCE desktop, Web server, SQL server and so on.

Now, RH, which is aimed more at the server market, has minimal as its default. Even if you choose various servers (I only checked, I think, with web and possibly mail) it still won't install X. I'm not sure what Fedora does if you choose web server (or indeed, if it's even offered)

Anyway, far more info than you will find useful, but it's a boring Sunday morning.

Tedel
13th November 2011, 05:32 PM
OK, I did it slowly, one by one.

I used yum provides to find out the packages I needed to remove, and them yum erase to remove those who didn't try to pull lots of dependencies with them.

So far, I have been able to remove marble (yet it took digikam with it), kdegames, kopete (yet it took kdenetwork, a package which claimed to be 0.0 kb large), konversation, rhythembox, kget, kfloppy.

I logged out, and in again, and it seems nothing is broken.

I am curious about something now: In the old days, when I used Mandriva, they had an command urpme --auto-orphans, which you could use to erase packages which are no longer used by any application. Is there anything similar for Fedora?

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------


Anyway, far more info than you will find useful, but it's a boring Sunday morning.

:D It's OK. I like to learn.

flyingfsck
13th November 2011, 06:17 PM
Hmm, it looks like you have seen the problem now. Uninstalling stuff just doesn't quite work.

When I have to build a system with a truly minimal setup, I use Kickstart and manually edit the list of packages. However, doing so requires multiple install/format sessions before the setup is good. So it requires a fair bit of time and is only worth the trouble when I have to build hundreds of identical systems.

kurtdriver
13th November 2011, 06:23 PM
I am curious about something now: In the old days, when I used Mandriva, they had an command urpme --auto-orphans, which you could use to erase packages which are no longer used by any application. Is there anything similar for Fedora?


Try this

$ package-cleanup --orphans

sea
14th November 2011, 12:40 AM
Uhm.. just tried it and thats what i got..


[simon@l670 ~]$ package-cleanup --orphans
Loaded plugins: langpacks, presto, refresh-packagekit
clutter-gesture-0.0.2-2.fc13.x86_64
clutter-imcontext-0.1.6-4.fc15.x86_64
cnetworkmanager-0.21.1-3.fc15.noarch
cups-1.5.0-19.fc16.x86_64
cups-libs-1.5.0-19.fc16.x86_64
ghostscript-9.04-5.fc16.x86_64
ghostscript-cups-9.04-5.fc16.x86_64
hal-libs-0.5.14-6.fc15.x86_64
kernel-2.6.40.7-3.fc15.x86_64
kernel-3.1.0-5.fc16.x86_64
libdvdcss-1.2.10-1.x86_64
mesa-dri-drivers-7.11-10.fc16.x86_64
mesa-dri-filesystem-7.11-10.fc16.x86_64
mesa-dri-llvmcore-7.11-0.9.20110509.0.fc15.x86_64
mesa-libGL-7.11-10.fc16.x86_64
mesa-libGLU-7.11-10.fc16.x86_64
python-slip-0.2.18-1.fc16.noarch
python-slip-dbus-0.2.18-1.fc16.noarch
python-slip-gtk-0.2.18-1.fc16.noarch
rest-0.7.11-1.fc16.x86_64
tzdata-2011n-1.fc16.noarch
tzdata-java-2011n-1.fc16.noarch
xorg-x11-server-Xephyr-1.11.2-1.fc16.x86_64
xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.11.2-1.fc16.x86_64
xorg-x11-server-common-1.11.2-1.fc16.x86_64

I dont know linux too well, but the xorg things, and WTF the libdvdcss seem pretty important to me :(

kurtdriver
14th November 2011, 02:58 AM
Good thing you checked that, I was working from memory, not the best approach sometimes.

Tedel, what you are calling orphans are known as leaves in the Fedora world while orphans are packages that are in no repo. Sorry about the confusion. If you do the leaves option instead of orphans it will list packages which nothing else depends on, ie leaves. You can use yum or rpm to remove them, if you wish.

Had you used rpm -e --nodeps marble instead of yum, you would have kept digikam.

Tedel
21st November 2011, 03:47 PM
I see. OK. :)