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ov10fac
2nd June 2010, 01:46 PM
I used the Fedora site to download 13. And to my surprise the default download is the "Live CD" What's this all about?? I installed it and it appears to be cripple ware. No openoffice, no file browser, and missing a whole lot of other things. I can't even find wget to download and install some files.

If the developers are trying to compete with Ubuntu, they have a long way to go. I suggest going back to the normal DVD download. I finely did find the full DVD, but only after some serious searching.

Not a good release guys.

:mad:

glennzo
2nd June 2010, 01:53 PM
Not a good release because you downloaded the wrong ISO? :confused:

Dan
2nd June 2010, 01:55 PM
<..:rolleyes:..>

Uhm ... Professor ... just in case you eventually decide you want to, after you've thought about it a while, if you delete your very first post in this thread, it will delete the whole thing.



Dan

forkbomb
2nd June 2010, 01:56 PM
What the...

Nevermind. I'm not even gonna ask.

All you ever really need is here:
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/

leigh123linux
2nd June 2010, 02:03 PM
I used the Fedora site to download 13. And to my surprise the default download is the "Live CD" What's this all about?? I installed it and it appears to be cripple ware. No openoffice, no file browser, and missing a whole lot of other things. I can't even find wget to download and install some files.

If the developers are trying to compete with Ubuntu, they have a long way to go. I suggest going back to the normal DVD download. I finely did find the full DVD, but only after some serious searching.

Not a good release guys.

:mad:

What's up? , not bright enough to use yum :confused:

kevmif
2nd June 2010, 02:35 PM
https://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora

WTF?

The live CD is in fact the default download.

If your new to Linux / alternatives to MS, you might not pick up on this.

There should be no 'default' - the download site should present the DVD and live CD options with an explanation of each. The options site isn't too bad though.

https://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options

Wait a minute, that site only has the Live CD, options available. I have to click yet another button to find the full DVD option.

No wonder new users are so confused.... the idiots that set this stuff up have less of a clue then the OP.

Still.... its not that hard to find the DVD version, but I don't know why anyone who has made up their mind to install Fedora would want the livecd in the first place - they are practically useless.

I also fail to see how a stupidly laid out website translates into 'not a good release' though.

forkbomb
2nd June 2010, 02:38 PM
/me sees more complaining in a venue the devs/website managers don't frequent
/me whistles and saunters along

Simian Man
2nd June 2010, 02:39 PM
If it was up to me the CDs would come with no applications at all except for the basics of the desktop, a web browser and a terminal. Almost everything else gets removed or replaced after installation. I understand that that's not a very beginner friendly approach though.

dragonbite
2nd June 2010, 03:13 PM
I used the Fedora site to download 13. And to my surprise the default download is the "Live CD" What's this all about?? I installed it and it appears to be cripple ware. No openoffice, no file browser, and missing a whole lot of other things. I can't even find wget to download and install some files.

If the developers are trying to compete with Ubuntu, they have a long way to go. I suggest going back to the normal DVD download. I finely did find the full DVD, but only after some serious searching.

Not a good release guys.

:mad:

Yeah, I know the LiveCD does not include Openoffice.. no biggie. No File Browser? :confused: What happens when you try and go into your Home directory? Nautilus should open in non-browser mode (unless that's been changed).

"Whole lot of other things", could be defined a little more.

"If the developers are trying to compete with Ubuntu.." is an assumption that they [1] are and [2] are failing.

I use the LiveCD to get me up and running quickly (and that it takes 15+ hours to download a DVD) and yes it is sparce, but that provides me the greater ability to choose what I want and what I don't want.

I want F-Spot or Banshee? .. I install it.
I don't want any Mono? .. It isn't there.

Maybe look at the Spins and find if there is one closer to what you want. I don't think there's an "Ubuntu Fedora Spin", but that doesn't mean Fedora may not look for a "complete desktop" spin. Actually, that sounds like a good idea.. who do I suggest that to?

kurtdriver
2nd June 2010, 07:33 PM
If it was up to me the CDs would come with no applications at all except for the basics of the desktop, a web browser and a terminal.
Me too. I liked that about Slax. Not a lot else, mind you.

dragonbite
2nd June 2010, 08:40 PM
Me too. I liked that about Slax. Not a lot else, mind you.

Isn't that like a NetInstall?

kurtdriver
2nd June 2010, 09:23 PM
Isn't that like a NetInstall?

No, with Slax you download an .iso but you pick the contents and their webpage (http://www.slax.org/build.php) does dependency checking before it builds your .iso. Very innovative.

---------- Post added at 01:23 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM CDT ----------






I use the LiveCD to get me up and running quickly (and that it takes 15+ hours to download a DVD) and yes it is sparce, but that provides me the greater ability to choose what I want and what I don't want.

I want F-Spot or Banshee? .. I install it.
I don't want any Mono? .. It isn't there.


That's what I've done with the last couple of installs. The DVDs Have a lot of stuff I don't want.

bendib
3rd June 2010, 06:38 AM
Yeah, I know. A few little tiny things are gone. My fix for missing things I need or want: yum install nano wget qemu isomaster etc etc etc
Fedora 12 is what got my goat, for a hundred and one reasons. Mostly horrid bugs.

Firewing1
3rd June 2010, 07:17 AM
I don't see the issue here - the DVD is one click away. It's even (relatively) clearly marked on the first "Get Fedora" page, on the right-hand side:


Other Options
* Formats: DVD ISOs, Physical Media
etc

If you'd like to find out how to customize the installed software and install OpenOffice.org for example, see the Quick Install Guide (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/13/html/Installation_Quick_Start_Guide/ap-pkgselection-dvd.html) (which, by the way, is also linked on the main "Get Fedora" page).

DrewP
3rd June 2010, 08:13 AM
I used the Fedora site to download 13. And to my surprise the default download is the "Live CD" What's this all about?? I installed it and it appears to be cripple ware. No openoffice, no file browser, and missing a whole lot of other things. I can't even find wget to download and install some files.

If the developers are trying to compete with Ubuntu, they have a long way to go. I suggest going back to the normal DVD download. I finely did find the full DVD, but only after some serious searching.

Not a good release guys.

:mad:

I admit I haven't used a DVD install since Fedora 10 so things may have changed since then, but in my opinion the DVD install is useful in only two cases.

1) Your are confident your hardware is supported,
and

1a) You have Infinite internet bandwidth. You don't care how much stuff you download that you will never use.
or
1b) You have Zero internet bandwidth. You are going to install on a PC that will never touch the internet.

I installed Fedora 13 onto this PC from liveCD on Sunday evening and already I have had two kernel updates and as I type I am downloading 100MB+ of updates which are primarily Open Office fixes.

I suspect that within a month of the release of the Fedora DVD almost everything I would install from it would need to be updated anyway.

You appear to have been a member since October 2007 so I won't insult your intelligence by mentioning how the menu item System | Administration | Add/Remove software gives you easy access to a list of applications that should make most Windows users green with envy (Oops - sorry! I just did)

Once you know what applications you need you can save yourself a lot of time by either making a kickstart file (which I use a lot for making live USB keys), or just a command file like this one...


$ head /home/user1/Documents/Config/yumitems01
yum install @office \
GeoIP \
ImageMagick \
ImageMagick-c++ \
PackageKit-qt \
PyQt4 \
a52dec \
acpi \
acpid \
acpitool \

Many of the items in that 500+ line list are already installed by the live cd but I use the list for other things and it costs nothing to leave the entry in.

Inspecting /var/log/yum.log is a very good start for building up such a list.

When installing a new distribution using a list from an older distribution it is handy to call it like this


# bash yumitems01 1>thelog.txt 2>theerrors.txt


So you can find out later what went wrong and which items have been removed or superseded in the new distribution.

One of my first useful entries to this forum was documenting how I installed from DVD onto a machine which had worked OK with the previous release but had a hardware issue with the new release that made it unusable. Having learned that lesson I would not dream of attempting to install onto any PC without testing with a Live CD or Live USB first.

axel668
3rd June 2010, 08:16 AM
This forum is amazing, turning even trolling attempts like this one into useful information :)

Replicant10000
3rd June 2010, 08:19 AM
Let me tell you what pisses me off about Fedora 13:

I did a preupgrade after rpm version check, "yum clean," and all other requisites. I had to wait two hours for the preupgrade to finish, then was told I could reboot and select "Upgrade to Goddard." I rebooted and did that. FTP network install couldn't work over wireless so I went to do a wired install. It didn't work there. After rebooting five or so times only to find out I needed an install.img, I put one on a rewritable CD via another computer with Windows Fista on it. Went back to upgrade to see if I could make the text mode installer look for install.img on local CD. Didn't work. Rebooted another few times, found out I needed a boot.iso. Downloaded and burned that to disk through F12.

Went back to "Upgrade to Goddard." Lo and behold, install.img was found and second stage of install commenced. At the Fedora box and after a bunch of prompts (enter password for encrypted partitions, etc.) I got "There was an error running your transaction for the following reasons: insufficient disk space (26M on /boot)"

But I have over 120 MB on /boot.

So I go back to single user mode, try tune2fs -r 0 /dev/sda1. That frees up a bit more but I STILL don't have the memory, as the install keeps telling me. Needs 26 MB more.

After EIGHT HOURS trying to upgrade my system I finally give up, go here and find out F13,14 and on NEED 500 MEGABYTES FOR /BOOT!

Who the hell was the one that came up with that bright idea! I have a 200MB /boot partition and a huge extended/logical volume in the middle of the drive which would meet with every four letter word in the book if I had to delete it! If the Fedora devs are going to allow an upgrade they should probably . . . you know . . . do that instead of playing Mickey Mouse with people's work computers and what not. A wiped drive with remade partition info does not a happy camper make.

CSchwangler
3rd June 2010, 08:35 AM
This is documented in the Release Notes:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F13_bugs#Issues_when_upgrading_from_previou s_releases

You could have found that out before attempting to upgrade.

dragonbite
3rd June 2010, 02:00 PM
I'm still trying to get Fedora going at home.

I've put Fedora 13 on my USB stick, but I keep getting "Not a bootable drive" error message. I finally broke down burned it on a CD but have yet to drag out the external CD drive for my laptop to give it a whirl.

I want to try it on my laptop because it has the Intel GPU that has been having problems in Ubuntu and I want to see if Fedora is any (maybe not perfect) better. I've got about 2 weeks to find out if it does, and if it does then to go through any patches so I can work some other people through it at our SIG meeting. Joy.

I noticed there is a backup utility (Deja Disk?). Has anybody used this and how well does it work?

giulix
3rd June 2010, 02:11 PM
This forum is amazing, turning even trolling attempts like this one into useful information :)

It's a new trend... going to keep this very nice howto i just wrote for the next occasion :)

ov10fac
3rd June 2010, 02:48 PM
I think a lot of misunderstanding. My concerns are not with the live CD. In fact I have used live cd many times in the past to install other O/S.

My concern is that there was no indication that the download was a live cd.

I install and maintain many instances of Linux on many commercial systems. Most of my customers want a "Windows look alike". So from an efficiency perspective I prefer the full installation. I could write scripts to add the features each client wants, but that would be time consuming and I would need to re-write it every 6 months or so.

I guess my gut is telling me that the developers, who by the way create a great product, are starting to get the Microsoft mentality when it comes to new releases. Namely trying to make everything simple for everyone. That makes it difficult to do things that used to be simple. As an example, has anyone tried to integrate a Windows 7 computer into a multi-O/S network? Lots of fun there and I see the same kind of thing happening to Fedora.

Anyway, it is the forum for "ranting". I like Fedora and will continue to use it to the exclusion of any other O/S. Just wish the philosophy of "if it's not broken don't fix it" was a little more prevalent

As a side note, why was the / and /home directories given their own lvm? I was just surprised by a call from a customer who ran out of space on /home. Seems the volume only has 20gb of hard drive space?? Never happened before and didn't happen on the beta. Guess I'll have to do some research to expand that volume. This is the kind of thing I mean. Doing something that seems to be the right thing to do, but now it creates more work on the end user. I will probably have to go back to several of my customers now to increase the size of the home volume. Yep, they do their own install sometimes.

John

forkbomb
3rd June 2010, 02:58 PM
My concern is that there was no indication that the download was a live cd.
You mean besides the filename that plainly states it's a LiveCD?


Sorry, but, since this is the ranting/ things that make you scream forum, why the hell are you putting Fedora on the machines of users who want a Windows lookalike? I mean, besides the fact that there is no real Windows lookalike distro that anybody really takes seriously, the last thing you should be giving to customers who need to be coddled is a bleeding edge distribution.

ov10fac
3rd June 2010, 03:06 PM
You mean besides the filename that plainly states it's a LiveCD?


Sorry, but, since this is the ranting/ things that make you scream forum, why the hell are you putting Fedora on the machines of users who want a Windows lookalike? I mean, besides the fact that there is no real Windows lookalike distro that anybody really takes seriously, the last thing you should be giving to customers who need to be coddled is a bleeding edge distribution.


Sorry, Fedora is a long long way from bleeding edge technology. Its state of the art yes, bleeding edge, no way. You want to see bleeding edge go to any good University doing research. They are working on things you can't even dream of.

And as for customers, if you worked with any customers, which I doubt based on your response, you would know that you give them what they want, not what you want them to have. My customers want Linux for security and other features that simplify their lives, but still want the ease of a Windows based interface. The only other option is MAC, and most don't want the expense.

And that's the last I will say on this matter.

dragonbite
3rd June 2010, 03:16 PM
Sorry, Fedora is a long long way from bleeding edge technology. Its state of the art yes, bleeding edge, no way. You want to see bleeding edge go to any good University doing research. They are working on things you can't even dream of.

Like what?


And as for customers, if you worked with any customers, which I doubt based on your response, you would know that you give them what they want,

And you are, no doubt, not in a position to "advise" them one way or the other considering they are spending their money and trust into you as their vendor.


not what you want them to have. My customers want Linux for security and other features that simplify their lives, but still want the ease of a Windows based interface. The only other option is MAC, and most don't want the expense.

And that's the last I will say on this matter.

And instead of going to the increasingly established and supported Ubuntu Long Term Support (LTS) release (even 8.04 LTS is still supported for another year if 10.04 LTS isn't your cup-o-tea) which includes the availability of paid-for support from Canonical without having to change distros, you go with notoriously state-of-the-art (or what some would call "bleeding edge"), community supported technology testbed Fedora?

Me smell exaggeration. :p

beaker_
3rd June 2010, 03:19 PM
Hahaha... thanks, I needed that. Customers normally only quote what they were sold which often resembles ?@#?.

forkbomb
3rd June 2010, 03:28 PM
Sorry, Fedora is a long long way from bleeding edge technology. Its state of the art yes, bleeding edge, no way. You want to see bleeding edge go to any good University doing research. They are working on things you can't even dream of.
Fedora isn't bleeding edge? Coulda fooled me. Just read the subject titles of the first page or so of the General Support subforum here. Simple stuff breaks. Fedora is bleeding edge. Don't even deny it.



And as for customers, if you worked with any customers, which I doubt based on your response, you would know that you give them what they want, not what you want them to have. My customers want Linux for security and other features that simplify their lives, but still want the ease of a Windows based interface. The only other option is MAC, and most don't want the expense.
Actually it sounds like either 1) your customers have no idea what they want, or 2) they don't really need you.

If they think they want Linux for the security, they probably don't need you to pick a distro for them. Anybody who knows what Linux is and understands enough about security to see the security advantages of running *nix is probably competent enough to pick their own damn distro.

On the other hand, if they say they want a Windows clone, I have bad news for you: that means they want Windows.

Dan
3rd June 2010, 03:38 PM
And on that note, and the fact the OP says he's done discussing it, This one is (mercifully) closed. Also note, that in being closed, it is also preserved in it's pristine state in the annals of forum history.