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View Full Version : Proprietary video drivers are Fedora's weakness


phaedora
18th March 2010, 11:18 PM
Fedora 12 has plenty good points, but whereas other distros can set up proprietary video driver with little intervention required from the user, as far as I can see, Fedora 12 fails completely with ati radeon drivers and installing nvidia drivers is an unwelcome palaver.

Dan
19th March 2010, 12:36 AM
Uhm ... Yeah? This is news?

Welcome to fedora (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items) ... and the fedora forum.

forkbomb
19th March 2010, 12:38 AM
Uhm ... Yeah? This is news?

Welcome to fedora (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items) ... and the fedora forum.
What does Fedora have to do with anything?

Video drivers are a pain in general on *nix.

Dan
19th March 2010, 12:52 AM
Sorry, it took me a minute to track down the link I wanted. Seems to me the guy said he had a beef with fedora, not 'nix. Mentioned "other distros" as I recall. But, h*ll! It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Let me go back and look. ...

...

Fedora 12 has plenty good points, but whereas other distros can set up proprietary video driver with little intervention required from the user, as far as I can see, Fedora 12 fails completely with ati radeon drivers and installing nvidia drivers is an unwelcome palaver.

...


Hmmm. Ayup. Thot so. <..:p..>

GoinEasy9
19th March 2010, 12:53 AM
I think the OP just wanted to use the word palaver in a sentence, however unwelcome it is.

Dan
19th March 2010, 12:55 AM
Yeah. I had some of that at Christmas. Good stuff! Lotsa honey in it as I recall.

forkbomb
19th March 2010, 12:55 AM
Sorry, it took me a minute to track down the link I wanted. Seems to me the guy said he had a beef with fedora, not 'nix. Mentioned "other distros" as I recall. But, h*ll! It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Let me go back and look. ...

...



...


Hmmm. Ayup. Thot so. <..:p..>

Doesn't flush with my experience. I've struggled with drivers on multiple distros.

Dan
19th March 2010, 12:59 AM
Know what you mean. I've been typing, "Yum install-video-drivers" into my Debian Edge install all afternoon ... and all it does is spit back a bunch of arcane error messages about not finding stuff.

phaedora
19th March 2010, 01:03 AM
>Video drivers are a pain in general on *nix
Mandriva, pclos, ubuntu, seem to have lessened the pain

>Uhm ... Yeah? This is news?

This sub forum is about rants, not news, I believe.

Now, assuming the devs are just as good as the devs on other linux distos and the problem is well known, even a tiny bit better known after my post, then surely logic suggests that improved video driver installation must follow.

Hlingler
19th March 2010, 01:07 AM
... as far as I can see, Fedora 12 fails completely with ati radeon drivers ...As I see it: ATI proprietary drivers fail completely with Fedora 12. Point-of-view thing, I suppose, but note that NVidia proprietary drivers work, despite the opinion of some that:... installing nvidia drivers is an unwelcome palaver.Unwelcome (to some) and (mildly) annoying, perhaps, but one which will never change. EDIT: OOPS! used the forbidden "never" word; amend to: "will only change when rocks become soft".

Vassuming the devs are just as good as the devs on other linux distos and the problem is well knownIn the opinion of the Fedora Project, and as per explicit policy: there is no problem. The situation that you describe is intentional, or rather, is a foreseen and accepted result of said policy.

Dan
19th March 2010, 01:09 AM
Hmmm. OK. You are indeed welcome to rant (within reason), but you may not always get the response you expect here in the peanut gallery. <..:p..>

On a more serious note, about that "follow" thing. Wander back up and hit the link in my first post. That should help explain some of it.

After that, try the "Fedora Set-Up Guides" link up at the top, and you should be good to go.

aleph
19th March 2010, 01:11 AM
Conspiracy theory time!

1. Fedora holds on to its commitment of not shipping any proprietary code while users of freetard distros are intoxicated by the joy of "vv00t, video workz right out of zTEH B0X!!!!11"
2. Meanwhile Red Hat secretly invests in funding a joint lawsuit of ATI and NVIDIA against Canonical & c.
3. Red Hat eliminates major competitions in the Linux business.
4. Using the leverage gained from the legal massacre that has established its dominion in the Linux market, Red Hat convinces ATI & NVIDIA to open up their hardware cr@p and drivers to Linux users.

----------
Obligatory Fine Print:

By reading the above post, you agree to the following terms and/or conditions:

1. It's a joke. Laugh.

phaedora
19th March 2010, 01:20 AM
Here's the note I made on installing nvidia drivers on debian lenny btw:

Proprietary Nvidia Driver - synaptic install
following were ticked in synaptic and installed

nvidia-settings
nvidia-glx
nvidia-xconfig

From root terminal go to usr/bin and type (run)
nvidia-xconfig

This should create new (etc/X11) xorg.conf (check with gedit)
(where dirver is set to "nvidia")

A bit off topic but hope it helps

I have crashed out twice on trying to install nvidia to fedora 12 but maybe with u'r advice, third time will be charm

GoinEasy9
19th March 2010, 01:29 AM
It's very easy to set up Nvidia graphics on Debian, use sgfxi. It installs them automatically.
http://smxi.org/docs/sgfxi-manual.htm

It's said he's even working on getting it to run on Fedora, but I haven't tested it out yet, nouveau is working so good on F13, I might forgo the binary blobs.

steelaworkn
19th March 2010, 02:00 AM
Here's the note I made on installing nvidia drivers on debian lenny btw:

Proprietary Nvidia Driver - synaptic install
following were ticked in synaptic and installed

nvidia-settings
nvidia-glx
nvidia-xconfig

From root terminal go to usr/bin and type (run)
nvidia-xconfig

This should create new (etc/X11) xorg.conf (check with gedit)
(where dirver is set to "nvidia")

A bit off topic but hope it helps

I have crashed out twice on trying to install nvidia to fedora 12 but maybe with u'r advice, third time will be charm

There is a little tool called "Search" on this forum. It is actually very helpful, along with most all of the guys on the forum. I'm no expert, but this forum has helped me get along with Fedora very well. Oh, and I've heard not very many of the devs pay attention to this forum. Real problems are handled through another venue. The easy problems are handled many times over here. Nvidia is one of those easy problems.:D

Dan
19th March 2010, 02:00 AM
I have crashed out twice on trying to install nvidia to fedora 12 but maybe with u'r advice, third time will be charm Might be a good idea to hunt up Leigh's install guides over in the How-to forum. He's put a lot of effort into writing them up and testing them. I suppose they might actually work. (Did for me anyway.)

Right after that, have a go at the forum posting rules. That might help out, too.

phaedora
19th March 2010, 03:22 AM
>Right after that, have a go at the forum posting rules. That might help out, too

Wow there is a wealth of stuff here

Write in English (yup)
Be polite - absolutely
Don't be cruel - as if
Introduce the word palaver whenever possible - sure did
I feel quite supercharged now, ready to take on that video driver install

Dan
19th March 2010, 03:25 AM
ROTFLMAO!

Ok! Then squirt on over to Leigh's thread, (Link is in the PM I sent you) and give 'er a good whack!

GoinEasy9
19th March 2010, 03:30 AM
Introduce the word palaver whenever possible - sure did

LOL - touché

leigh123linux
19th March 2010, 11:27 AM
>Video drivers are a pain in general on *nix
Mandriva, pclos, ubuntu, seem to have lessened the pain

>Uhm ... Yeah? This is news?

This sub forum is about rants, not news, I believe.

Now, assuming the devs are just as good as the devs on other linux distos and the problem is well known, even a tiny bit better known after my post, then surely logic suggests that improved video driver installation must follow.


Speaking as a fedoraproject packager, we don't care about nonfree crap like nvidia or the ati drivers.

BugRocks1
19th March 2010, 12:37 PM
I do think is the same as the others, the thing being that in fedora the repos in rpmfusion are a bit disorganized for better or for worst. Much grief could be avoided if they just released the drivers with the kmods LoL

On a flattering note, I love the packagers and think, those guys are heroes.
Packaging is boring and hard, all those dependencies are hell to track down and it is a tedious job, people should thank them more often, but they could use a tracking system to release dependent packages.

Addition:

Fedora do have easy ways to install things like autoten and easylife, but those things are for the weak :)

forkbomb
19th March 2010, 02:37 PM
Fedora do have easy ways to install things like autoten and easylife, but those things are for the weak :)Nah. Just the lazy.

ghostdawg
19th March 2010, 07:50 PM
Well, lately I've not used proprietary drivers for video. I can live without 3D effects and whatnot. It does make my OS more useable without hassles.

GoinEasy9
19th March 2010, 08:22 PM
No need to live without 3D effects any more using Open Source. I'm very excited about this. In the last few weeks I've dumped Nvidia blobs and Suns Java, now, if HTML5 can just decide to go with an Open Source codec, I can feel completely free.

RahulSundaram
19th March 2010, 11:53 PM
Hi,

I would agree that proprietary drivers are a weakness but not just in Fedora. While making it easier for the current releases might superficially improve usability, it is a long term pain and doesn't fit into the kernel development model or Fedora's goals on long sustainability of free and open source software.

The difference is that Fedora (and Red Hat) are investing very heavily on getting the free software drivers up to par and we are well on our way to accomplish that. Intel has always been on the free and open source route (with one single exception of a third party chipset) and ATI had experimental 3D support in Fedora 12 via the Radeon driver (just install mesa-dri-drivers-experimental package) which has been extended to Nouveau driver for Nvidia systems as well for Fedora 13. Fedora is in the forefront of this development thanks to Red Hat being the single largest distribution to contribute to Xorg and has full time developers to develop and maintain these drivers.

While we don't have everything perfectly complete (and won't happen anytime soon), the progress that has been made, particularly in the case of Nouveau which has gotten so far without any help from Nvidia whatsoever is nothing short of astounding. So provide the feedback and help improve the FOSS drivers and let us get rid of proprietary crutches and pain of drivers that we can't debug or control in any way.