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View Full Version : Lin compete with win and distro hell.



Draciron
18th October 2009, 11:47 AM
Refering back to this.




I am not trying to blast you here, you do have some good ideas in your post though you also exaggerate a bit also. The thing is it is easy to crack the whip, but what are YOU doing to help? This is one of the reasons why Linux will never compete with MS. There is no direction, no concerted effort to drive the ship in one direction. Instead everyone has their own ideas and they have the freedom to act on them. It is survival of the fittest. The very fact that Fedora exists contradicts your claim that it is not what people want. Maybe you do not know what people want? You spent a long time on that post, I fear it was a wasted effort. Just look elsewhere, there is bound to be a distro that better suites you. For me Arch and Mint are what currently fit the bill. That takes nothing away from Fedora, it just is not right for me at this time. I am okay with that. Really. That is the beauty of Linux. :)

Linux can not only compete with windows it is actually hitting windows quite hard. First the server market where Linux socked it too old school nix and is slowly invading the world of microserfs. Just look at any windoze job add. Few today do not add at least nice to have Linux skills, many make it manditory.

There is only one thing keeping many people from going all Linux or jumping in and that is games.

In terms of performance, security, features, software, design, innovation, customization and ability there is no comparision. Linux wins hands down. In terms of ease of use, I personally feel Linux is much easier to both install and maintain. There are some minor gotchas with both OS and I think they are tied in that dept though people are used to windoze as a rule and have internalized those gotchas where Linux means a learning curve. Tarballs for example still give novice Linux users fits. VI sends them screaming into the night. Windoze makes you reboot a zillion times still. Software installation is still old school where as Linux has some really cool GUI tools and command line tools. IF it's in a repository and there are no repsoitory conflicts Linux wins hands down. If it comes down to a tarball windows wins. Not that most tarballs are all that complicated. Just tedious and scary to non-technical people.



No. There are only a few real distros, everything else is a spin. So lots of folks are stuck downline with a choice between evils. Go with bare bones distros and spend lots of time crafting your own packages and dealing with dependency hell or go with a mainstream distro getting lots of support but also losing customization. Mint is a Ubuntu spin, Mandriva, CentOS, redhat spins, etc. So when Fedora/RH end of lifes a package all the spins lose it too. The spins are concentrating on ADDING on top of the work of people like RH. For example JackLab which I am typing this on right now. It is OpenSUSE which is really Redhat. It is specialized for musicians. Or was. Promising distro bites the dust not from lack of interest but lack of money. It is the funding aspect that kills most distros before people can really get into them. Ubuntu and Fedora the top desktop distros are well funded. You have to have some paid people to keep up with the army of packages and to add features at that pace.

I'm trying out different distros but I honestly like MOST things about Fedora. Just some things that are killing me about it. I think your going to find more and more of us who've been running nice stable long term versions of Fedora getting tired of reinstalling it over and over again and speaking up. It hasn't been as much an issue because people are still running older versions. In one Fedora list I come accross people running FC5 or older almost weekly. Isn't until something breaks do they even think about upgrading.

Just think about all those unpatched systems out there. Many of those people are likely unaware they are vulnerable. They set up autoupdate on install and haven't checked it since. It's not until they try to install something new and it breaks that they come running for help on an install that''s quite old.

There is also the conflict between package availibility and the distro. Fedora and Ubuntu have the two largest repositories. So many tarballs are so deep into dependency hell that I refuse to even try them. Recently installed the tar version of Gaim on Ubuntu. After a half hour of collectin dependencies and modifying the configure command line it compiled and promptly died the first time I ran it. Turns out that wasn't the end of the dependency hell. I needed to update other stuff, all of which had dependencies and I finally said forget it!!

There are far too many packages today like that in Linux. Some stuff like TeXt support mean NOTHING to me but are hard fast dependencies I'd have to mod the src code to remove. Not just on 1 file but on hundreds.
So there isn't a choice. There isn't a distro with long term support but also large package repositories. and driver databases.

I introduce a dozen or more people to Linux every year. I help hundreds of others through their first installs. I physically install Linux on several first time Linux users every year. It takes usually 6 months too 3 years before they are completely weened off help. Some will never do their own installs and tweaks. Linux is MUCH better for many reasons than windows or Mac for these people. One of the biggest is if something goes wrong and they still have networking I can usually log in remotely, fix it and be done with it in minutes. Even if I log on remotely to a windoze system, I spend far more time diagnosing the problem, often have to reboot causing me to log on repeatedly and as often as not cannot fix the problem remotely even after all that.

Me I fix peoples computers, friends of mine fix my AC, fix my broke pipes, help me bury the bodies of M$ auditors :) I fix their computers. I like it that way :) Linux makes it easy. That is if I don't have to run over and reinstall every six months because they end of lifed the latest version out a couple months before I set up their machine.

Part of the biz value of Linux is fewer support hours. That means one admin can support that many more machines. In a college for example the labs shouldn't need a new version every year. Every 3 years is more realistic. Plain and simple longer life means better cost of ownership for Linux. A big selling point when I go in to pitch converting their company to Linux. Now what? I have to charge 4 times as much as I used too on the support contracts because I have to do needless upgrades that have zero value to the customer. That makes no sense. RHE is way out of the price range of most companies and is not suitable for desktops. The RHE desktop is a joke. Server is awesome if you have that kind of cash. Other commercial distros offer same kinds of problems. SUSE is great for desktops but EOL distros way too quick.

Nope not wasting my time, just sharpening my arguements. Every protest is but an obstacle to overcome. When I bring it too RH I want it to be as coherent and compelling as possible. So I bring things up and rant about them, get blasted sometimes, get good feedback sometimes, usually a bit of both. I learn, I improve and I hope in the end I contribute by improving Linux.

As for my contributions, I wish I could say I wrote more FOSS. I have very little in the way of software I've contributed. I have beta tested FOSS software, contributed to the Fedora docs project, sat on the Linux journal avisary board, I have written thousands of replies in forums, list groups, emails, and even voice and RL helping people Linux problems. I have also put my $s where my heart is. I have purchased lots of distros in box sets including Caldera when it was the first distro to be sold at places like CompUSA. I could have downloaded it, in fact I used a downloaded version and left the box unopened for about 6 months. I bought it to support Linux. I have influenced the purchase of millions of dollars of Linux lics and support. I bought a Dell laptop with Linux on it instead of a more powerful laptop I'd have to install Linux on too support the Linux community.

I DO contribute as much as I am able and wish I could do more. I am constantly looking for practical ways to do more and am working on the side on a writer's editor I will release as FOSS when it's ready. I also contributed money and a little code back in the early 90s to the FreeDOS project.

JN4OldSchool
18th October 2009, 01:23 PM
There is only one thing keeping many people from going all Linux or jumping in and that is games.

Seriously? That is all? I stand corrected. :)

Dies
18th October 2009, 04:08 PM
Nope not wasting my time, just sharpening my arguements. Every protest is but an obstacle to overcome. When I bring it too RH I want it to be as coherent and compelling as possible. .

LMAO!

a.) I can assure you that RH doesn't give a rat's *** what you or anyone here thinks.

b.) You've got a LONG way to go before I would classify your rants as coherent let alone compelling.


I'll admit to just skimming, but so far there's nothing special or even original about what you brought to the table, just the same old crap people have been regurgitating for years...

:rolleyes:

scottro
18th October 2009, 04:26 PM
Folks, let us try to keep it a bit polite. Please. (Otherwise, the thread will just be closed.)

Dies, suppose you had written

RedHat will probably ignore your arguments.

You will have to do a great deal of work to make your argument more compelling. At present, it seems to be a fairly typical representation of what has been said, many times, for years.

Would that have REALLY changed the meaning?

Dies
18th October 2009, 05:19 PM
Folks, let us try to keep it a bit polite. Please. (Otherwise, the thread will just be closed.)

Dies, suppose you had written

RedHat will probably ignore your arguments.

You will have to do a great deal of work to make your argument more compelling. At present, it seems to be a fairly typical representation of what has been said, many times, for years.

Would that have REALLY changed the meaning?

Yes, tone definitely has an effect on what's being said.

Besides that, you get what you give.

You apparently consider it polite to start a rant, then take a quote from that thread only to start another rant?

hmm...

Dan
18th October 2009, 05:35 PM
OK. This one is locked until I can quit laughing and formulate a coherent response.

EDIT: I've spent the last few minutes starting, then deleting several different responses here, but in the end ... I think it's best to just screw the lid down, snap off the screw heads, and walk away. It is what it is. Warts and all.

*Dan puts his hands in his pockets and walks away whistling.*


Dan