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greno
27th May 2009, 03:15 PM
A problem with F11 release is that there is no compatibility install of python 2.5. A lot of our python apps are not 2.6 ready and so still need python 2.5 to be available. It would be good if Fedora could provide an auxiliary python 2.5 package so that we could still run existing python 2.5 apps like this:

$ python2.5 ./myapp

This would not interfere with the default python 2.6 install and would allow people to upgrade to F11 without losing the abililty to run their python 2.5 apps.

Regards,
Gerry

SlowJet
27th May 2009, 08:15 PM
A problem with F11 release is that there is no compatibility install of python 2.5. A lot of our python apps are not 2.6 ready and so still need python 2.5 to be available. It would be good if Fedora could provide an auxiliary python 2.5 package so that we could still run existing python 2.5 apps like this:

$ python2.5 ./myapp

This would not interfere with the default python 2.6 install and would allow people to upgrade to F11 without losing the abililty to run their python 2.5 apps.

Regards,
Gerry

Python-2.6 was a major feature.
It has been published and discussed for many months.

The problem with your thinking is that no old code ever gets changed.

Just yesterday a Newbie computer user looking a Windows Vista remarked, "Why is autoexec.bat and config.sys still in my boot aeas? That's DOS! I don't want any DOS on my system."

There is already people asking for python-3.0 and that will take a lot of effort, so will be a couple of more releases, 13, 14.

So, as they say in the streets, fix your @#$%^& programs.:)

SJ

RupertPupkin
27th May 2009, 09:14 PM
So, as they say in the streets, fix your @#$%^& programs.
You're hanging out on some strange streets if the people there are talking about fixing computer programs. :D

I think the real problem is Python's apparently weak backwards compatibility. I can understand breaking compatibility going from 1.x to 2.x, and from 2.x to 3.x. But a lack of compatibility going from 2.5 to 2.6 just seems like bad language design to me. :(

sej7278
27th May 2009, 10:58 PM
I think the real problem is Python's apparently weak backwards compatibility... But a lack of compatibility going from 2.5 to 2.6 just seems like bad language design to me. :(

i'm not aware 2.6 is not backwardly compatible with 2.5, i think someone has been doing hacky version-dependent programming (paths/strings with a version in perhaps?) or relying on some legacy library?

you can always just install python 2.5 from source anyway.

2.5 to 3.0 (hell, anything to 3.0!) is another issue.....

sideways
27th May 2009, 11:01 PM
You're supposed to make you code work with 2.6 (http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html#porting-to-python-2-6) so that it will be a smoother upgrade to 3.0 (http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3775901/Pythons+New+Release+Bridges+the+Gap.htm) when the time comes.

Otherwise, if you need legacy support, use a stable distro like centos that doesn't introduce new stuff every 6 months. (you could just use fedora for future testing code)

http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.6.html

greno
27th May 2009, 11:16 PM
The issue is two-fold.

Python 2.6 should have had a 2.5 compatibility switch. I mean no one breaks compatibility to this degree within a release series. Only between releases. Nothing a distro can do about that.

Fedora should have released an auxiliary python 2.5 package so that user could still run python 2.5 apps. The default python would still be 2.6 but if you needed 2.5 it would be there. I guarantee that not everyone has all their apps ported to 2.6 whether its their own apps or third-party apps that they've installed. I've already run across numerous "Missing Dependency" errors upgrading to F11 on a number of machines. These all came from installed python 2.5 apps.


Regards,
Gerry

sideways
27th May 2009, 11:26 PM
Fedora should have released an auxiliary python 2.5 package so that user could still run python 2.5 apps.


They don't care about people wanting to run their 2.5 apps, just as they don't care about people who still want oss audio support. Fedora's not about legacy support it's about moving forward and testing new technologies.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python_2.6

Specifically, I quote:

Fedora is about pushing the boundaries, and having Python 2.6 as a transitional release on the path to Python 3000 is no exception


The feature list is posted in advance, so you're not going to get any surprises:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList

greno
27th May 2009, 11:47 PM
Having an auxiliary python 2.5 package available does not in any way change or impact the fact that Fedora has made python 2.6 the default in F11. And yes of course people knew that python 2.6 was being introduced in F11. But I don't think they expected that they could not run python 2.5 if it was needed. I'll install python 2.5 myself in /usr/local so that we can use it. And others can do the same. It just would have been better if 2.5 would have still been installed by the distro. I mean this would have taken very little effort on their part. Ubuntu 9.04 also has python 2.6 as default and already there are tons of postings and issues with various packages that don't work with 2.6. I think it would have been better for both distros to realize these things would happen and try to ease the pain for the user as developers work at getting all the python 2.5 apps out there converted to run under python 2.6. All this conversion is not going to happen overnight.


Regards,
Gerry

sideways
28th May 2009, 12:11 AM
You should post on the mailing lists or even bugzilla, if enough people raise a fuss they may package a legacy version.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate

RahulSundaram
28th May 2009, 06:27 AM
Hi,

Unfortunately it is not a simple matter of providing a single compatibility package. Applications tend to a lot more python modules in other packages. So it is a substantial effort. Note that compat-python24* is available from RPM Fusion repository and they might be willing to package Python 2.5 as well. If have old code not working well with Python 2.6, update it and perhaps you can continue using the compat python packages for 2.4 meanwhile.

wtanaka
14th August 2009, 09:40 AM
An example of an application currently requiring python 2.5 is the Google App Engine SDK (http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=985).

It appears that a small change to the Fedora 10 RPM allows it to install in Fedora 11. You can download a src RPM with a patched spec file here: Fedora 11 Python 2.5 RPMs (http://wtanaka.com/linux/f11#python25)

alfatal
5th September 2009, 09:23 AM
Thanks wtanaka, that really works great! :D

Demz
5th September 2009, 09:30 AM
Python-2.6 was a major feature.
It has been published and discussed for many months.

The problem with your thinking is that no old code ever gets changed.

Just yesterday a Newbie computer user looking a Windows Vista remarked, "Why is autoexec.bat and config.sys still in my boot aeas? That's DOS! I don't want any DOS on my system."

There is already people asking for python-3.0 and that will take a lot of effort, so will be a couple of more releases, 13, 14.

So, as they say in the streets, fix your @#$%^& programs.:)

SJ

i do believe OpenSuse is using Python 3.1.x in there latest alpha milestone


Joe Brockmeier has announced the availability of the sixth milestone release of openSUSE 11.2: "The openSUSE project is happy to announce that openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 6 (M6) is available for download. This release includes new packages on the GNOME and KDE live CDs, Python 3.1, and Linux kernel 2.6.31-rc6. Changes Since openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 5: new packages on the KDE live CD (Choqok, KNode, Kompare, KSystemlog, Okteta); Transmission is now on the GNOME live CD; PackageKit 0.5.1; a number of updated packages, including Firefox 3.5.2, GIMP 2.6.7, GNOME 2.28 Beta, Konversation 1.2 Alpha 6, OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 Beta 2, VirtualBox 3.0.4, WINE 1.1.27." Please refer to the full release announcement for more details and known issues. Download (mirror list): openSUSE-KDE4-LiveCD-Build0235-i686.iso (669MB, MD5, torrent), openSUSE-GNOME-LiveCD-Build0235-i686.iso (683MB, MD5, torrent), openSUSE-KDE4-LiveCD-Build0235-x86_64.iso (659MB, MD5, torrent), openSUSE-GNOME-LiveCD-Build0235-x86_64.iso (686MB, MD5, torrent). http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=05636