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arshad3m
29th July 2008, 07:22 PM
hai guys,
please explain me what is gnome and what is kde. which one is better?

btw. i am new here to linux.

thanks in advacne.

JN4OldSchool
29th July 2008, 07:39 PM
hai guys,
please explain me what is gnome and what is kde. which one is better?

btw. i am new here to linux.

thanks in advacne.

Oh goody goody goody!

Gnome and KDE are what are known as desktop environments. There is also another not so major player called Xfce. Xfce is the best! :D Naw, seriously, this has been argued to death and the simple solution is to try both KDE and Gnome, and hopefully Xfce as it is very worthy of consideration also, and decide for yourself. I could go on all day on the advantages and disadvantages of all three and it would just be MY opinion in the end anyway.

A desktop environment, or DE, contains a window manager (WM) along with a suite of other tools such as file browser, settings tools, GUI linux tools, and other apps. The thing I like about Xfce is it is lighter than the other two, using a lot of the Gnome tools, yet much more modular than Gnome.

Something else to consider are the stand alone WMs. Many, like compiz, Metacity, XFWM4 and others need to be installed in a DE to be supported. But many others like Fluxbox, Openbox, Hackedbox, ICEWM, Windowmaker, e17...There are a bunch more...These WMs can work by themselves giving you a basic GUI. You have menus, a dock, usually themes though most are basic, and enough stuff to just get by. WMs are harder to learn, but once you figure them out they are models of simplicity and efficiency. I personally like e17. This is very close to Xfce, being what I would call a full figured WM.

You will probably get some negative feedback for this thread. The fact is this is a much talked about subject. Dont feel too bad if it eventually gets closed, but I did want to give you some background on this subject first. The search function would give you days of reading on this subject.

drokmed
29th July 2008, 08:14 PM
LOL did you throw enough at him?

JN4OldSchool
29th July 2008, 08:23 PM
LOL did you throw enough at him?

This was the first post from arshad3m that I read. In hindsight it probably was too much info too soon, but it is something he should know.

I should have just shortened it to "just use Xfce, the rest suck!" :p

pete_1967
29th July 2008, 08:23 PM
Oh goody goody goody!

Gnome and KDE are what are known as desktop environments. There is also another not so major player called Xfce. Xfce is the best! :D Naw, seriously, this has been argued to death and the simple solution is to try both KDE and Gnome, and hopefully Xfce as it is very worthy of consideration also, and decide for yourself. I could go on all day on the advantages and disadvantages of all three and it would just be MY opinion in the end anyway.

A desktop environment, or DE, contains a window manager (WM) along with a suite of other tools such as file browser, settings tools, GUI linux tools, and other apps. The thing I like about Xfce is it is lighter than the other two, using a lot of the Gnome tools, yet much more modular than Gnome.

Something else to consider are the stand alone WMs. Many, like compiz, Metacity, XFWM4 and others need to be installed in a DE to be supported. But many others like Fluxbox, Openbox, Hackedbox, ICEWM, Windowmaker, e17...There are a bunch more...These WMs can work by themselves giving you a basic GUI. You have menus, a dock, usually themes though most are basic, and enough stuff to just get by. WMs are harder to learn, but once you figure them out they are models of simplicity and efficiency. I personally like e17. This is very close to Xfce, being what I would call a full figured WM.

You will probably get some negative feedback for this thread. The fact is this is a much talked about subject. Dont feel too bad if it eventually gets closed, but I did want to give you some background on this subject first. The search function would give you days of reading on this subject.

Someone sticky that so we can just post a link to it when next one asks!

My stock answer to "which one is better" questions is: One likes mother, the other likes daughter.

lacalaca85
29th July 2008, 08:25 PM
Yeah... The best way is to find out ;) Just install both, then log in to any of them, and start to mess around.

But if you have already used Ubuntu, you will find one of them familiar (which one is the default for that?...). KDE is the one with one panel at the bottom (like Windows), GNOME is the one with panels at the top and bottom of the screen (by default).

JN4OldSchool
29th July 2008, 08:35 PM
Gnome is default for Ubuntu, though they have their kubuntu version like we have our kde version.

Something else that we take for granted but should be noted for newcomers is that any and every DE and WM can be installed in any Linux distro. You can also install them all in the same install, switching back and forth if you like. Most apps are cross compatible also, such as you can use K3b in Gnome or Sound Juicer in KDE. Be aware that many of these apps will also install a lot of the parent DE's dependencies also. This never has bothered me and while I use Xfce because I prefer it, i have full Gnome and KDE installs in all my computers also. I mean, drive space is hardly an issue anymore...

ivancat
29th July 2008, 09:02 PM
Something else that we take for granted but should be noted for newcomers is that any and every DE and WM can be installed in any Linux distro. You can also install them all in the same install, switching back and forth if you like.

I mean, drive space is hardly an issue anymore...

agree on the 1st

what concerns the 2nd: not everyone has cheap and/or unlimited internet these days and when it comes to the time when you have to d/l one live cd or another (let's say the one with kde and the other one with gnome) a person new to all this just gets stuck; that could be the source of all these questions

JN4OldSchool
29th July 2008, 09:15 PM
agree on the 1st

what concerns the 2nd: not everyone has cheap and/or unlimited internet these days and when it comes to the time when you have to d/l one live cd or another (let's say the one with kde and the other one with gnome) a person new to all this just gets stuck; that could be the source of all these questions

That is a good point. While you could just install either of the live CDs and then just use Yum to install the other DE or WM, there is the point that these additional apps are going to add a LOT to your yum updates! Having full installs I can update as much as 500MB a week easy! If you do not have good broadband then you will probably only want what you absolutely need installed to keep your updates down.

Yes, it is a trade off to be sure.

arshad3m
30th July 2008, 05:42 PM
i am using now the gnome version of fedora, can i upgrade my version into xfce without changing any settings which i have already made with much difficulties, and of course with the help of you guys here?

JN4OldSchool
30th July 2008, 06:24 PM
i am using now the gnome version of fedora, can i upgrade my version into xfce without changing any settings which i have already made with much difficulties, and of course with the help of you guys here?

No, you can use the same user, but a lot of configurations go into a different file in /userhome. This means you will have to reselect wallpaper, theme and whatever else. But your desktop icons should carry over as would some other things. You can, however, switch back and forth with the same user. In other words, this wont mess anything up, but you will need to configure your new Xfce environment to suite you. Then, you can switch back to Gnome and it will be just how you left it. The only real problem I have ever had to doing this is a bug that when you switch from Gnome to KDE then back to Gnome you will have two trash cans on the desktop. I dont know if this old bug has been fixed or not.

arshad3m
30th July 2008, 06:27 PM
does it eat more memory or hard disk space?

JN4OldSchool
30th July 2008, 07:10 PM
memory? I suppose a case could be made that the more stuff on a hard drive the slower it will be to read and write from that drive, but in practice you would never notice. Of course it will take some extra space on the drive, but not much at all. 50MB maybe? You will find that Xfce is noticeably quicker than Gnome, though a member has made the argument that Xfce cannot multitask better than Gnome. I would argue this though as I usually have 5-10 apps going at once and dont notice any slowdown.

arshad3m
22nd August 2008, 04:18 PM
out of gnome and xfce which one has the most beautiful themes. ?? can xfce be customised much more that gnome? or atleast to that extent?
in xfce and gnome are the commands are same ???

thanks

LDC
22nd August 2008, 05:01 PM
*cough* *cough* go fluxbox

arshad3m
22nd August 2008, 05:37 PM
i want to know out of gnome and xfce...

LDC
22nd August 2008, 05:43 PM
i want to know out of gnome and xfce...
both gnome and xcfe doesn't remotely match the level of customization you can achieve with fluxbox. :p

JN4OldSchool
22nd August 2008, 06:47 PM
both gnome and xcfe doesn't remotely match the level of customization you can achieve with fluxbox. :p

Huh? :confused:

Fluxbox is great, I have just started using it over Xfce in my Gentoo install because I am not running Compiz-Fusion. I am just sick of bloat and half baked crap that keeps breaking. Flux is a great choice for a no nonsense install. It was a tough choice between Flux and Window Maker with GNUstep.

But how do you justify this statement? Flux is a very spartan window manager that lacks even 1/8 the features Xfce has. And Xfce has a few less features than its big brothers, the bloathogs.

Which is more customizable between Xfce or Gnome? Hard call. I would have to say Gnome in the long run but in my case Xfce was much more flexible for the changes I wanted to make. Really, both will do most anything you could want. You simply have to use them both and find out what you like best.

arshad3m
22nd August 2008, 07:00 PM
hai JN4OldSchool :)
what is the problems you have in Compiz-Fusion. i am afraid i also may have those probs without knowledge. what is gentoo?
:)

arshad3m
22nd August 2008, 07:03 PM
how to install xfce i were to install it through yum extender?
is there anyway to remove it, if i want later?

JN4OldSchool
22nd August 2008, 07:06 PM
hai JN4OldSchool :)
what is the problems you have in Compiz-Fusion. i am afraid i also may have those probs without knowledge. what is gentoo?
:)

I have no problems with Compiz-Fusion on any of my other computers (4 F9 and 1 Mint). I use Leigh's packages in Fedora. I am not running it in Gentoo as I want a base install with just the apps I need, tuned for as much speed and stability as I can manage. I have been building it for two weeks now and must say I am getting into it.

Gentoo is a very manual Linux distro. It gives the user complete control, and while you (I will) argue that ANY distro is capable of this, Gentoo is very transparent. But it is probably NOT what you would want to try just yet.

However, reading LDC's posts lately, he REALLY REALLY needs to try Gentoo!!!

http://www.gentoo.org/

LDC
22nd August 2008, 07:36 PM
yo JN ;)


But how do you justify this statement? Flux is a very spartan window manager that lacks even 1/8 the features Xfce has.
uhuh :p
need icons on desktop? you can have them. Need a systray? you can have it. Need a wallpaper? you can have that (and more!! like scripted wallpapers...), you can have dockbar, you have the slit (which is not present nor in gnome and kde), you can edit your preferences using a text editor... you can choose the order of the applications in the menu, as well as their names and the command itself that will be issued when you click them.
You can run software as system process rather than just running it from terminal.
'till now I haven't found a single thing that can't be made with fluxbox (and can be with gnome/whatever), it is just a matter of thinkering.
The thing that is for sure is that fluxbox is so much faster than gnome and even xfce that they can't really be put on the same level, we are talking of totally different things (and also technically they're indeed different: gnome and xfce are environment, whilst fluxbox is just a window manager).
This is the main reason behind the fact that the comparison is almost useless and the choice must be made on goal basis.
Since I've an old PC and can't run properly gnome, I tried XFCE, that is ___great___, it is just that fluxbox is way faster... it is perfect for my hardware specs..... :)

I've already targeted Gentoo, but "yum" keeps me here :P

ivancat
22nd August 2008, 08:00 PM
I've already targeted Gentoo, but "yum" keeps me here :P

I wouldn't really get used to yum :) As it was said at that meeting, smart is on the way to take its spot

And Gentoo... yes, it is a good distro, but...eh, not for my hardware

Hlingler
22nd August 2008, 08:05 PM
I wouldn't really get used to yum :) As it was said at that meeting, smart is on the way to take its spotThat would be nice. I've always liked Smart Package Manager, but setup and upkeep of repos and mirrors was always manual, and a bit tedious, and no logging whatsoever was a negative. I thought that development had stalled, but I see now that they just recently released REV. 1.0, so it's time to try that - wonder when we'll see RPMs?

V

arshad3m
22nd August 2008, 08:06 PM
please help me.
if i search 'xfce'in yumextender i get many things with the prefix 'xfce' what to select?? :)

Hlingler
22nd August 2008, 08:07 PM
please help me.
if i search 'xfce'in yumextender i get many things with the prefix 'xfce' what to select?? :)OOPS! Sorry, arshad3m, we got a little off-topic.

yum groupinstall "XFCE"

V

ivancat
22nd August 2008, 08:09 PM
That would be nice. I've always liked Smart Package Manager, but setup and upkeep of repos and mirrors was always manual, and a bit tedious, and no logging whatsoever was a negative. I thought that development had stalled, but I see now that they just recently released REV. 1.0, so it's time to try that - wonder when we'll see RPMs?

V

Don't know if it is going to be available for current releases (including f10), but I have a feeling that in F11 we'll have it as the default PM


please help me.
if i search 'xfce'in yumextender i get many things with the prefix 'xfce' what to select??

if you want to install xfce, then
yum groupinstall XFCE

LDC
22nd August 2008, 08:40 PM
I wouldn't really get used to yum :) As it was said at that meeting, smart is on the way to take its spot
despite failing to see the sense of dropping yum, that works perfectly, I know nothing about this smart-stuff. Any link is appreciated.
Sorry for the small hijack :P

Hlingler
22nd August 2008, 08:42 PM
despite failing to see the sense of dropping yum, that works perfectly, I know nothing about this smart-stuff. Any link is appreciated.
Sorry for the small hijack :Phttp://labix.org/smart

V

LDC
22nd August 2008, 10:18 PM
http://labix.org/smart

V
thanks Hlingler! it is so much interesting that I am gonna try it at once :p

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 05:38 AM
ok. i installed xfce. but my ntfs drives are invisible in xfce. whcih were accessible in gnome??? :confused:

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 05:44 AM
and 'window manager' and window manage tweak' not working
error messge:
"these settings cannot work with your current window manager (unknown)"

please help me

marcrblevins
23rd August 2008, 05:58 AM
Isn't Windows Manager the xdm, gdm, kdm?
Which are you using? Default is Gnome as the DE and gdm as the Windows Manager, actually "login manager".

RupertPupkin
23rd August 2008, 05:59 AM
*cough* *cough* go fluxbox
*cough*Window Maker*cough*

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 06:04 AM
Isn't Windows Manager the xdm, gdm, kdm?
Which are you using? Default is Gnome as the DE and gdm as the Windows Manager, actually "login manager".

i think mine is compiz :confused:

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 06:46 AM
ya. i see now it says
"these settings cannot work with your current window manager (compiz)"
how to disable it?

please help me.
thanks

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 07:00 AM
how to change the color of the window. i can change the themes of windows but not the color

vallimar
23rd August 2008, 02:41 PM
Isn't Windows Manager the xdm, gdm, kdm?
Which are you using? Default is Gnome as the DE and gdm as the Windows Manager, actually "login manager".Login managers are what xdm, gdm, kdm are, for runlevel 5 graphical logins.
GNOME, KDE, XFCE are desktop environments. Suites of related applications.
Compiz, metacity, e16, fluxbox, openbox (and more) are all window managers,
of which there can be only one running.

Things are not as interchangable as they sound though. Most window managers
are meant to run standalone, and the desktop environments are written around one,
maybe two window managers that are generally unusable otherwise.

You can mostly use applications from kde/gnome/enlightenment in any of the
window managers, provided you have all the necessary bits installed, but you
can expect things to look a bit mish-mashed. They don't seem to be as bad
about loading up lots of extra bloat for each little program anymore either so
it's not as painful as it used to be.

Nothing is equal and you pretty much have to shop around and experiment in
order to find what best works for you. Every WM/DE has glitzy themes aplenty
so focus more towards your best idea of useability when selecting things.

vallimar
23rd August 2008, 02:44 PM
how to change the color of the window. i can change the themes of windows but not the colorXFCE has a separate section for theming the window borders (also called decorations). The colour is a part of the theme. I can't remember the section it's under and I don't have access to check at present. It's in the settings list someplace, look around and you'll find it.

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 04:53 PM
please help me to mount ntfs hard drives in xfce. they are accessible in gnome. but not in xfce.. :(

JN4OldSchool
23rd August 2008, 05:00 PM
please help me to mount ntfs hard drives in xfce. they are accessible in gnome. but not in xfce.. :(

yum install thunar-volman

otherwise just edit your fstab to reflect the mounts. :)

arshad3m
23rd August 2008, 05:02 PM
:confused:


[Arshad@localhost ~]$ yum install thunar-volman
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, presto, refresh-packagekit
You need to be root to perform this command.
[Arshad@localhost ~]$ su -
Password:
[root@localhost ~]# yum install thunar-volman
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, presto, refresh-packagekit
Setting up and reading Presto delta metadata
livna | 2.1 kB 00:00
No Presto metadata available for livna
fedora | 2.4 kB 00:01
No Presto metadata available for fedora
adobe-linux-i386 | 951 B 00:00
No Presto metadata available for adobe-linux-i386
updates | 2.3 kB 00:00
No Presto metadata available for updates
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
* livna: rpm.livna.org
* fedora: ftp.itu.edu.tr
* adobe-linux-i386: linuxdownload.adobe.com
* updates: ftp.itu.edu.tr
Setting up Install Process
Parsing package install arguments
Package thunar-volman-0.2.0-2.fc9.i386 already installed and latest version
Nothing to do
[root@localhost ~]#

please, i dont know how to edit fstab....

RupertPupkin
23rd August 2008, 07:20 PM
man fstab ...

RonPolley
23rd August 2008, 07:55 PM
My friend there are hundreds of articles on this forum for editing the fstab file, do a search for Edit fstab and you'll see. XFCE probably has already mounted your other file system any way. Log in as root and look in file manager again,then also look in the mnt file and the media file . You may just need a permission change to make it visible in your user account.

RonPolley
23rd August 2008, 08:06 PM
OK, I'm on my XFCE now and my additional drives and partitions are accessible in Filemanager>file system>media