PDA

View Full Version : SCRIBUS: dowlaod and install advice request



Shaky Start
19th June 2008, 09:11 PM
I know ths is a general software forum, not dedicated to any particular package, but I can find no trace of a Scribus forum anywhere on the net, aside from the option to use IRC (shudder).


If there is one killer application for me (a long time Windows user), under Linux, it is Scribus. Over the last few months I have tried - honestly, I've really tried -to understand how to find, download and install this product. I won't bore you with all the failed attempts, so could somebody please tell me where to look to teach myself how to:

1. Find the right RPM of the latest STABLE version of Scribus for use under FC9 on an i386 class of computer.
2. Find out how to download it and understand where it goes (so far I'm told that there are 3 downloads in progress, but I can find no trace of this package)
3. Find out how to install it, bearing in mind that the Scribus documentation instruction (Yum -Uvh ./scribus-1.x.rpm) fails with a 'file not found' error message.

4. Find an answer to the general questions: "Why does it have to be so desperately difficult to do any thing in Linux? Is there a permanent requirement to demonstrate one's virility on every action under Linux?" I'm far too old - possibly by a factor of 4 - for that sort of game.

sidebrnz
19th June 2008, 09:32 PM
It's available from the Fedora repos. Either use Add/Remove software or, if you prefer, yumex.

Shaky Start
19th June 2008, 09:43 PM
Yes, I originally tried the Ad/remove route. It installed an unstable version of Scribus (1.4.5) that was totally incapable of importing even the simplest page (no content, just a background) from InDesign. The import would run for more than 12 hours before I killed it.

So that's why I tried to install the stable version 1.3.3.11 - but the download instructions have obviously never been tested with a user who just wants to generate some value from the software - rather than becoming a deep technical expert on this morning's computing technology - but out of date by lunch time.

So the add/remove route is not effective. Yumex is an unknown object - to me.

Thetargos
19th June 2008, 09:55 PM
Download the Fedora 8 RPM and install it under Fedora 9, should work just fine.

By the way, the version in Fedora 8 is 1.3.4, I'm not sure if it is available in the main repository or a special one (IIRC it should be in the main repo), so long as you have all the deps covered, it should work just fine, that includes (IIRC) QT3.

sidebrnz
19th June 2008, 10:38 PM
Yummex is the Yum Extender, and I find it to be better than the current version of Add/Remove. (Among other things, Add/Remove only lets you do one file at a time; Yummex lets you select a group of unrelated files and work with them.) From a terminal, as root, us this:

yum install yummex

to install it.

PatMcLJr
19th June 2008, 10:43 PM
maybe one of these will work?

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/7673498/com/scribus-devel-1.3.3.5-1.i686.rpm.html

might take some poking around to find one that works.

Have you tried to compile it yourself, might not be that bad?
if your using fedora 8 I think a quick yum install scribus will do it.
I have it on my box 1.3.4 It seems very capable but you talk about steep learning curve, for me anyway.
I use inkscape more and more, recent versions have be come very useful and have feature not found in commercial software.

Now, don't blast me, but maybe Ooo or Kwrite would offer you some utility for what you want to publish? Good support and very easy to use.

Best of Luck,
Pat Jr.

Shaky Start
20th June 2008, 12:57 PM
Having followed the link you suggested I find that the FC8 version is 1.3.4.5 as an rpm for i386 architecture. I installed this last night but heavens knows how I did it because there are no clear instructions for a new Linux user.

The product is delicate in the extreme: I tried defining a default document, single page, no content and saving it: scribus failed immediately with error code 11. I'm sorry, I've searched my memory - both short term and long term - and can find no reference to anything called 'error code 11'.So what can do with this information?

More importantly where does one go to get support for Scribus? As it is, it does not represent a viable alternative to InDesign for an experienced user like myself, who has had enough of Microsoft policies.

Any further advice on obtaining Scribus install and support help would be gratefully received.

PatMcLJr
20th June 2008, 04:44 PM
look here maybe

http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Main_Page

http://docs.scribus.net/index.php?lang=en&page=intro

http://www.scribus.net/?q=support

http://www.scribus.net/?q=taxonomy/term/39

I think, experimenting on your own is a good way get started.

Pat Jr

Thetargos
20th June 2008, 05:10 PM
Maybe you will have to get a statically linked binary from the downloads section of Scribus, though I'm surprised it hasn't worked out right for you.

sidebrnz
20th June 2008, 06:09 PM
You say that Scribus has no support except for IRC, which you reject. (Can't say I blame you; some "support" channels are so slow that you're lucky to get a single reply an hour.) However, the Scrbus site also mentions a wiki and a mailing list. I'd think you'd get better help there because everybody on it actually uses the program.

Shaky Start
20th June 2008, 06:27 PM
Maybe you will have to get a statically linked binary from the downloads section of Scribus, though I'm surprised it hasn't worked out right for you.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a 'statically linked binary' and why are there two of them?

The Scribus download site has a bewildering array of versions of the product. I don't know where to start.

I recall reading a few days ago that one user downloads a different version every day because the product is till under development! That not only represents a world of unacceptable chaos to a new arrival on the Linux scene, but seems to me to be the very worst sort of software release control. It sounds like a 'hurt the innocent end-user as much as you can' approach. I've come to Linux to get away from that sort of Gates-Ballmer machismo.

Finalzone
20th June 2008, 06:28 PM
Yes, I originally tried the Ad/remove route. It installed an unstable version of Scribus (1.4.5) that was totally incapable of importing even the simplest page (no content, just a background) from InDesign. The import would run for more than 12 hours before I killed it.


Have you considered exporting that background into another format like png, svg, ai? Scribus cannot imported file from InDesign in fear to have legal trouble.

Shaky Start
20th June 2008, 06:47 PM
You say that Scribus has no support except for IRC, which you reject. (Can't say I blame you; some "support" channels are so slow that you're lucky to get a single reply an hour.) However, the Scrbus site also mentions a wiki and a mailing list. I'd think you'd get better help there because everybody on it actually uses the program.
Yes, I agree that I really should be turning to a specialist group of Scribus users for help. Thanks for the pointer to their Wiki. But, AS USUAL, this form of help fails at the first step: I am advised to look at a 'getting started' tutorial, which assumes that I have Scribus installed. In practical terms, I don't have it installed, and I don't understand how to install it. Not only that but it a 'read only' form of support - I cannot ask a specific question.

The Scribus Wiki is very clear about the version I have tried to use (1.3.4.5) - which is that it is unstable. I only want to be using a stable version. The Scribus site says this is version 1.3.3.11; the Wiki says it is 1.3.3.12 - not a very encouraging start from a consistency point of view, is it?

Assuming that the Wiki is correct and the developers are wrong, if I click on the 1.3.3.12 link I am taken to a page listing the files included in this release. There are 3, 1 of type 'source bz2' (no use to me, I wouldn't have the first clue on how to compile it), the second of type 'other' (other than what?) and the third for 32-bit Windows - or in other words nothing for use by me under FC9.

So, just like so much in this Linux world, the links give you a lot of words amounting to nothing. What a shame and a lost opprtunity to make an end-user attractive alternative to the products from those nasty people in charge in Redmond.

Finalzone
20th June 2008, 06:49 PM
I can build a 1.3.3.12 rpm if you like. You only need to ask.

Shaky Start
20th June 2008, 06:51 PM
Have you considered exporting that background into another format like png, svg, ai? Scribus cannot imported file from InDesign in fear to have legal trouble.
Yes, I am aware of this: I tried import with both SVG and EPS. Both failed. There seemed to be no point in importing a png - that's just a cut and past and I assume I would lose all layer information. As far as I can see the product does not function at the 13.4.5 level (and the Scribus Wiki hints at such too).

Shaky Start
20th June 2008, 06:55 PM
I can build a 1.3.3.12 rpm if you like. You only need to ask.
That's very generous of you - but how do I receive it and how do I install it?

And why should it be necessary? If this is a stable product, why isn't there an installable version of it at the Scribus web-site? Or are the development team reluctant for people to get it easily? Is there some sort of virility test which you have to pass before you can be considered as a real user?

Finalzone
20th June 2008, 09:47 PM
That's very generous of you - but how do I receive it and how do I install it?
And why should it be necessary?
It is all about taking a step to provide that package. Don't forget it is all about volunteering.


If this is a stable product, why isn't there an installable version of it at the Scribus web-site?
There are different factors like someone did not have rpm based distributions installed. The source is available so anyone can create package format for that distribution.

Shaky Start
20th June 2008, 10:59 PM
It is all about taking a step to provide that package. Don't forget it is all about volunteering.


There are different factors like someone did not have rpm based distributions installed. The source is available so anyone can create package format for that distribution.
Sorry, I haven't understood a word of your reply. I am unable to see how it relates to the questions I asked.

I'm clearly getting too old for this stuff.

I have a simple needs:

1. Where do I find a stable version of Scribus?
2. How do I download it?
3. How do I install it?

4. Can I get answers to these questions in plain, simple English?

If the answer to Q.4 is 'No', then Linux is clearly not a viable offering for end-users.

Finalzone
21st June 2008, 06:21 AM
Sorry, I haven't understood a word of your reply. I am unable to see how it relates to the questions I asked.

I'm clearly getting too old for this stuff.

I have a simple needs:

1. Where do I find a stable version of Scribus?
2. How do I download it?
3. How do I install it?


http://downloads.sourceforge.net/scribus/scribus-1.3.3.11-4.1.fc8.i386.rpm?modtime=1200326285&big_mirror=0
Straight from sourceforge. It should automatically download that package and you only have to install it.



4. Can I get answers to these questions in plain, simple English?
If the answer to Q.4 is 'No', then Linux is clearly not a viable offering for end-users.

That is a flawed point considering that Linux is a kernel and Fedora is one of Linux distributions.

Thetargos
22nd June 2008, 01:11 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a 'statically linked binary' and why are there two of them?

In a nutshell: dynamically linked binaries make use of libraries that are expected to already be present in your system; statically linked binaries do not require such libraries to be present, as are "self contained". Without getting too much into what approach is the best and their advantages and disadvantages, suffice to say that it is common for a lot of Linux programs to be available in both "formats", especially if the programs are provided by a "third party", or "upstream" project (like the Scribus project itself, rather than distribution-specific packages. Yes, Fedora and many other distributions may offer the program, but the versions may not work all that well for everyone (though they are specific to your distro), or are outdated, or are in beta... Like is your case with Scribus. However, in the light of these factors, many project also offer pre-compiled binaries which are statically linked, so they can be deployed in a wide variety of distributions with whatever mixture of libraries.

Scribus, just like the whole Linux scene, is not a "product" per se. It is a program in constant development and improvement (a project). There are two branches in most Open Source projects: One stable and one for testing. Fedora seems to be shipping the testing version of Scribus in Fedora 9, which, as you point out doesn't seem to work right for you (most of the time testing versions work rather well for a wide variety of programs), hence my suggestion for you to use an "older" version of the stable branch, or the Fedora 8 RPM package.

Apparently there are some issues with the Fedora 8 version running in Fedora 9, hence, I suggested to you to get a statically linked version, which is basically a .zip archive with the program, and you simply "install" it by means of extracting it to your home directory and running it from the directory you extracted it to (think MacOS... Sort of). If there is no such package available, you may still be able to get the version you need running by means of building the source code yourself, which isn't "hard" as such, but does require you to meet a series of dependencies in order for the program to build correctly. Getting such dependencies could get you to what is known as "dependency hell" where one program needed to build one also requires others, etc.

Finalzone graciously volunteered to offer you a Fedora binary (RPM) of such an "older" (stable) version. All you'd have to do then is to download it from the link he'd post, put it (for instance) in your Desktop, double click on it, supply the root password for the installer to proceed, checking for any other packages the program might require and installing them (if any) and the package you want... That'd be all.

tw2113
22nd June 2008, 01:51 AM
yum install scribus

it should do all the right installations properly.

Something I noticed from your first post was "Yum -Uvh ./scribus-1.x.rpm", when it would be "rpm -Uvh ~/scribus*.rpm". That should work more than what you posted.

Finalzone
22nd June 2008, 06:34 AM
He is looking for stable version of Scribus which is 1.3.3.11 while Fedora 9 has 1.3.4. The recent version 1.3.3.12 is broken.

Shaky Start
22nd June 2008, 10:38 AM
Yes, you are quite correct - that is what I am looking for. But when I go to source forge I seem to be pointed at 1.3.3.12 (which is claimed to be a stable version) and not at 1.3.3.11 (which is also claimed to be a stable version). Your advice that ..12 is broken only confirms my conclusion - that things are just too confusing for a new user (with the emphasis on the word user rather than IT wizard).

If I track down a version 1.3.3.11, then I am not presented with an installable package for use under FC9 -as previously reported.


So, my requirement still stands, as in the 4 questions I outlined previously. And it surprises me that there has been no direct answer to those 4 questions - 3 of which are quite possibly common to every USER who is new to the Linux world.


You previously - very generously - offered to build a stable version from 1.3.3.11 source (I assume). I have distinct memories of replying to your offer , but I can't seem to see my reply now. Clearly this is a sign of impending something or other that's age related. But if your offer still stand, I gratefully accept it. Just tell me what I have to do.

Shaky Start
22nd June 2008, 10:40 AM
yum install scribus

it should do all the right installations properly.

Something I noticed from your first post was "Yum -Uvh ./scribus-1.x.rpm", when it would be "rpm -Uvh ~/scribus*.rpm". That should work more than what you posted.


This was the advice I found in some on-line scribus documentation. I didn't re-create it. I copied and pasted it.

Shaky Start
22nd June 2008, 11:01 AM
Now that's what I call a reply!

You have filled in a lot of gaps in my understanding with this post - my thanks. Actually they are gaps in memory rather than understanding, because I used to be in the middle of this type process 40 years or so ago and clearly now remember the 'deadly embrace' of mutal dependency that I got myself into when developing some code.

With the benefit of hindsight and the ignorance of being now trailing edge, I would like to observe that there must be a better way for project and streams (up & down) to integrate and synchronise more reliably than this.

This is getting off topic, but as an analogy, when I want to visit my local shopping centre by car I do not expect to have to order and select a number of car component packages and assemble them - with varying degrees of success, into some sort of finished product. Further more, I don't expect to have to build the road too.

In other words, an END USER has markedly different requirements to a developer, computing hobbyist or computing High Priest, who sees value in the rituals, raiments and rantings of any branch of the IT religion. The END USER just wants to use the stuff - which is why I have referred to them (wrongly I now understand) as products.

I'm starting to ask myself if the Linux world is where I should be to achieve my objectives. I'm certainly not going to return to the world managed by those desperately unpleasant individuals at the top of Microsoft who have created a massive environment which encourages, enables, supports and mangifies criminal behaviour.

Thetargos
24th June 2008, 05:44 AM
Actually I don't think you have to ask youself that question about if Linux is where you have to be or not... You can achieve pretty much all that you can on Windows or MacOS X, however Fedora doesn't seem to be the right choice for you. Don't get me wrong, but doing exactly that kind of testing is what Fedora is all about, to test new software components and integrate them into a "stable" (as marked by the upstream projects) software distribution. For your purposes, I'd strongly advice you to try out CentOS (kind of rough, feels dated, but its software integration is much batter, based on RHEL, which in turn is based on Fedora, has yum, and you can add extra packages through a "certified" repo, like EPEL), you can also try another RPM distros more polished for desktop use, such as Mandriva or (Open)SuSE... or if you don't mind package management, try Xandros or even Ubuntu (though IMO Ubuntu might be a bit like Fedora in regards to the development cycle), another one worthy of trying and based on Ubuntu is Mint.

All these are much more focused on the desktop. Fedora is making a slow transition towards that end, but given its "testing" spirit, you may think of it as a "testing" desktop platform. Keep an eye on it, for things that will eventually become standard on many other distros ;)

Shaky Start
24th June 2008, 03:21 PM
Thanks for the overview of the Linux distribution scene.

I am committed in my life to working only with people of goodwill and acceptable ethics. I cannot in all good conscience work with products from a company that has such appallling executives as that in Redmond. I first started looking seriously at committing myself and my work (voluntary support to foreign students) to a version of Linux about 3 years ago (is it that long?) when FC4 was announced. On and off I worked at it, even tried FC 6 and now FC 9. The whole Fedora environment is just far too unstructed, unco-ordinated and littered with incorrect or ineffective documentation, advice and code for a neophyte user, working alone. But it is not until the last few days that I have been advised that Fedora is NOT a 'production environment' as I call it.

Having now seen this truth I was able to quickly make my mind up about Fedora: leave it. Write off all those hours in the remainig oh so precious years of my life to bad judgement.

I downloaded the DVD for OpenSuSE on Sat night/Sunday morning (respect to Albert Finney); by Sunday evening it was installed, up & running, with Scirbus installed and working well enough. SAMBA installed without problem so I could start to transfer data from my other Wintel computers. I did not even have to solve the problem of Numlock - which I observe others have struggled with over MONTHS in this forum (and where the thread for my own requests was finally closed by a moderator without the probelm ever having been solved).

I even have sound - that never worked under Fedora.

So, I achieved more in 12 hours on Sunday, working alone, than I have over the previous 3 years with Fedora. There must be a message here for those who might be prepared to listen.

Most importantly, I no longer have a Scribus problem so my students of Architecture, Fashion and Media Studies can now get continued support and my favourite local printer can work with me again.

My sincere thanks those who have tried to help me in this environment. I'm glad you know what you're doing.

Finalzone
24th June 2008, 06:16 PM
Glad you have find a distribution that suits your needs.

Thetargos
24th June 2008, 09:10 PM
Bottom line: Remember that Linux is Linux, regardless of its "skin". Now to get some work done!

posterartist
8th May 2009, 11:24 PM
You have inDesign and you are wasting time with a MS Publisher clone Scribus? That is a waste of time, brainpower and computer use! At least you are not using Quark, that will drive you to drink!
InDesign is top of the world, Scribus is ah....somewhere...
Take care, have fun, have a beer...