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tux2furious
15th June 2004, 09:04 PM
I am discouraged!

Unofficial Fedora Core 2 Guide for Beginners

http://fedoraguide.org/fc2/fc2beginnersguide.html

I have received some complains. Please vote whether should I continue or STOP! I wouldn't mind stop writing if that's everybody's wish

P/S. How many people have to tell me to use yum or apt. As Iíve said, Iíll be adding it soon. I'm only doing this on my free time and free will. So why can't be a little patient with me. And btw, show/define me the standards of ďThe Fedora Way!Ē or "The Correct Way!". And what's wrong using RPM way???

See also:
http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3426

Register to vote:
http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/register.php

<removed complain letter>

fjleal
15th June 2004, 09:45 PM
I didn't read your notes very carefully, but they seemed a nice resource to me. Your site may indeed help others with the same questions you had. Keep on going! The important thing is that you're learning, and you're helping others to learn also. And if people think there are better ways to do those things, well they're free to do it as they prefer. Nobody's forced to follow your methods.

Invite others to join you. Try to create an even better resource, and you'll soon need to hire more bandwidth... ;)

foolish
15th June 2004, 10:24 PM
I'm sorry you feel discouraged, you do good work here. But you're obviously new to the game, your guide is good, it is, but you have to get some of the fedora basics. The email has some points.

Here's the biggest issues with the guide as of today:

You use root when you don't need to, this is wrong. Only use root when you abselutely have to.

You mix repositories that can't be mixed. There are two repositoriy-mixes that work. The first, and best IMO is the fedora.us + livna.org mix, which works 100% and provides a lot of packages. The other mix is the Freshrpms + Newrpms + atrpms + dag + dries ++, which doesn't work as well, but has more packages. Choose one, I would prefer if you chose the same configuration as fedorafaq.org, which is available here: www.fedorafaq.org/#installsoftware

You cover some questions that are already covered in fedorafaq.org, we don't need more diversion.

Fedoraguide is a welcomed addition to the fedora community, but please, work with us. You seem able and most of all, willing. Let's work together mate.

tux2furious
15th June 2004, 11:41 PM
I'm sorry you feel discouraged, you do good work here. But you're obviously new to the game, your guide is good, it is, but you have to get some of the fedora basics. The email has some points.

I'm feeling a bit better already.

Here's the biggest issues with the guide as of today:
You use root when you don't need to, this is wrong. Only use root when you abselutely have to.

Some of the configurations require modifications of system files. I'm only afraid if I ask the newbie to "su" then use "vim", it will be more confusing. That's why I use "gedit" to simplify things.

You mix repositories that can't be mixed. There are two repositoriy-mixes that work. The first, and best IMO is the fedora.us + livna.org mix, which works 100% and provides a lot of packages. The other mix is the Freshrpms + Newrpms + atrpms + dag + dries ++, which doesn't work as well, but has more packages. Choose one, I would prefer if you chose the same configuration as fedorafaq.org, which is available here: www.fedorafaq.org/#installsoftware

Just got to know about Dag's site today. I think it's better compared to Freshrpms. Freshrpms removes old packages once a new update is out. Quite troublesome for me to keep track. Dag keeps archives which I think good. Will be changing my links to Dag's site, once I've tested it. Does fedora.us and livna.org have most of the 3rd Party Programs?

I'm going to work on yum once i finished updating the rpm way. Can't take the complains anymore.

You cover some questions that are already covered in fedorafaq.org, we don't need more diversion.

Sorry to be the diversion. I'm only trying to make my guide as complete as possible. Fedorafaq.org is very good. I learnt a lot from there.

Fedoraguide is a welcomed addition to the fedora community, but please, work with us. You seem able and most of all, willing. Let's work together mate.

How?

tux2furious

Casper
15th June 2004, 11:41 PM
nah... all peoples have different taste, dont have to worry about those non-sense complaint. If the guy really that good, and since he hate Microsoft so much, why not ask him/her to tell Bill Gater shutdown Microsoft and it's website.

dude, you are doing a good job, I learned a lot from your site. So, carry on, dont have to care about those nonsense.

:)

Ug
16th June 2004, 12:10 AM
I'm undecided as yet. I can see a reason for it to stay around in some form, but with some more experienced guidance.

HwaTai
16th June 2004, 02:34 AM
I really have to say something here.

Give tux2furious a break. He's new but yet trying to help. That's a good spirit. I like his mission statement.

>Like the OpenOffice.org project. I am the current maintainer for the well-visited OOo uFAQ.

What a self praising guy? So what if it's well-visited and good. Everything starts from scratch. tux2furious's guide only started less than a month, but yet has been so far so good for a newbie. It's not the best, but it has indeed given me some tips.

>why, oh why, did tux2furious feel the itch to go start an inferior Fedora Guide site

It's his $$. Maybe he has big plans, maybe not. Who knows? Only time will tell.

tux2furious, keep up the good work and learn more. Don't stop. Ignore those criticism and sarcasm. I think once you've finished up the yum issue, it's gonna be great. Hope to see more topics in too.

byte
16th June 2004, 03:33 AM
Great, so now at least we know tux2furious has no ethics and posts messages rather freely. Rocking. Context people - thats something you forget (this was in regards to Malaysian resources, as other Malaysians are thinking about doing the same thing - the nation should be proud for what it creates, don't you all think?). Before passing comments, go read comments made on osnews.com among others - I'm not the only one making comments...

My intentions were not to discourage - they were clear:
1. Write a document of good quality
2. Be proud of your language - utilise it well
3. Be accurate - don't go on with drivel.

You're adding yum/apt soon - good on you, and I know the free time is an issue - but if you're going to release something for NEWBIES, don't let the newbies get confused, for Pete's sake.

fjleal's comments make sense. foolish makes it clear - why not work together? What's with all the freaking forks? Gareth is right, you need guidance - if you're going about announcing the guide's existence, it sure as hell, better be right. People will depend on it, and if it breaks, guess what?

They don't say tux2furious sucks. They say FEDORA SUCKS.

And HwaTai, read the entire post carefully. Read the comments. Let's not fragment. We have a Fedora Docs project, why can't people work with them? (and no, I've never seen tux2furious post)

subzero_ice
16th June 2004, 03:59 AM
hi tux2furios,
i think you are doing a great job and since its the begining there is a lot of room to grow and perfect things. please don't get discouraged. i found your site to be quite helpful even though i learnt about it after i went through the hassle of looking up different places for information.
if i can help i will be more than happy to do so.

ewdi
16th June 2004, 04:39 AM
critisim should be use as a way to improve your work, i think you should continue and be prepared that critics could be harsh but it's for the good of you :)

try work with some people from fedoranews or fedorafaqs, we are all about unity in fedora community.

micha
16th June 2004, 04:50 AM
Any tutorial/guide/manual/faq... are always welcome. So you should continue.

--Micha

tux2furious
16th June 2004, 05:08 AM
Great, so now at least we know tux2furious has no ethics and posts messages rather freely. Rocking. Context people - thats something you forget (this was in regards to Malaysian resources, as other Malaysians are thinking about doing the same thing - the nation should be proud for what it creates, don't you all think?). Before passing comments, go read comments made on osnews.com among others - I'm not the only one making comments...

Yes, byte I have no etiquette and bad netiquette, how about u? So what's the deal of you writing an email to a mailing list and then CC it to me, using me as an example which sounded not like any advice but rather criticism. Couldn't you just email me directly to tell me upfront? If you read my post, I did mention "Trust me, if I could do better, I would. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm here to learn too."

I've read the comments on osnews.com much earlier and I'm aware of the comments. That's why I have stated it clearly at my thread at "Common Feedbacks":
http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3426

So where's the spirit of Malaysia Boleh?

My intentions were not to discourage - they were clear:
1. Write a document of good quality
2. Be proud of your language - utilise it well
3. Be accurate - don't go on with drivel.

1. Every good quality work starts from somewhere. This is only the beginning. That's why there's version number in my document. Can't any patients be spared to me? Please?

2. I'm still learning how to write as this is my first guide ever! Should I not deserve the chance to learn and change? I am not a linguistic. If you see any problems with my language, just correct me and don't blame my improper english.

3. As far as my knowledge stands, i don't think it is inaccurate and is a drivel. I have tested it before I post it up. I am also open for corrections if there are feedbacks. Why do you think is a drivel?

You're adding yum/apt soon - good on you, and I know the free time is an issue - but if you're going to release something for NEWBIES, don't let the newbies get confused, for Pete's sake.

That's why I have always replied to feedbacks and open to suggestions here:
http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3426

fjleal's comments make sense. foolish makes it clear - why not work together? What's with all the freaking forks? Gareth is right, you need guidance - if you're going about announcing the guide's existence, it sure as hell, better be right. People will depend on it, and if it breaks, guess what?

They don't say tux2furious sucks. They say FEDORA SUCKS.

Regarding getting the domain (fedoraguide.org). I've got people who's willing to sponsor me hosting. It's free and no obligation. Would you turn it down?

So if i removed "3rd Party Programs (RPM)" section would you be happy?

Btw, I'm not here to make enemy, just too frustrated with criticisms and sarcasms. Just too much.

byte
16th June 2004, 05:23 AM
Hmm, so an e-mail reply ended up on the forums again. Impressive. Responses pasted. Urgh

Constructive criticism, to tell others where else they probably don't want to make a similar mistake

The easiest way to learn is to not start your own project, but work with something existing out there - so you get useful feedback from peers

No, I'm asking you for a moment, to see the bigger picture. If Joe Random newbie reads something incorrect, and it breaks, whom does he blame?

Incidentally, I noticed you never made a posting to fedora-list either about your "guide"

I'm not here to make an enemy either. I was not sacarstic, just giving
constructive feedback (and telling others that writing guides isn't
exactly easy)

Its great to see you, a "newbie" at work. I applaud that! But why not work with existing projects like:

fedorafaq.org
Fedora Docs project
FedoraNEWS.org contributors

If you can satisfactorily answer that, and show me/the rest the need for another guide, please, by all means do so (I know, the fedora docs project isn't exactly screaming with lots of love at the moment)

And then I'll humbly apologise, and we can move on - because no, I don't have time to argue with you either. If you can't take criticism, tough

tux2furious
16th June 2004, 06:06 AM
Hmm, so an e-mail reply ended up on the forums again. Impressive. Responses pasted. Urgh

Just to reply to what you had posted here.

Constructive criticism, to tell others where else they probably don't want to make a similar mistake

Why some people are not happy about my guide is because (major issues):
-i did not upload my guide into existing site
-i did not use yum (which i mentioned is still in the making)

Does that consider "constuctive criticism"?

No, I'm asking you for a moment, to see the bigger picture. If Joe Random newbie reads something incorrect, and it breaks, whom does he blame?

Mind to point it out for me; Which is the part that you think it will break? I seriously have tested it many times. I know it's not perfect, but no one till date has ever complained about my guide crashing their system. Hope it will never happened.

I really need people to point out my mistakes, and not to say my guide in general is not good.

I'm not here to make an enemy either. I was not sacarstic, just giving constructive feedback (and telling others that writing guides isn't exactly easy)

Yes, i believe that now. Not an easy job to write guide. Are you telling me that only experts can write guide?

Its great to see you, a "newbie" at work. I applaud that! But why not work with existing projects like:

Let me do a little bit more and see how things go. Hope to try concentrate more on my guide than other issues. Due to your email, I couldn't concentrate and have not touch my guide today. Passion is the only fund to my guide. It's running thin.

And then I'll humbly apologise, and we can move on - because no, I don't have time to argue with you either. If you can't take criticism, tough

Let's not start a cold war. Who knows one day we will bump into each other somewhere in Malaysia. Just don't want to make enemy with someone I have never met.

I am deeply sorry for my bad netiquette. At that moment of time, when I read your email it really burnt my fuse?

Anyway, I would like to sincerely apologise to you, Colin Charles :)

byte
16th June 2004, 06:25 AM
this is getting silly; last post from me - if you want a response, e-mail me. also, this is the end of the thread from me (its not fedora related any longer)

ta.