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Finalzone
5th May 2004, 08:47 AM
For a good laugh, please read this http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/mcse2.htm

fjleal
5th May 2004, 08:59 AM
That's a joke, isn't it?

Ug
5th May 2004, 09:39 AM
I wish it was, that person is a classic example of MSCE FUD.

wshawn
5th May 2004, 11:44 AM
I wonder if he has 20 years experience running all versions of DOS from 2.0 up, OS/2 WARP and MERLIN, Mandrake 6 -10, Redhat 7.2, 7.3 and both Fedora cores?

I do.

But my problem isn't with the guy who mindlessly repeats the drivel, the problem is that people actually believe it.

I remember when I first got into linux. I used mandrake 6.0 Somewhere around page 11 it said I could make as many copies of the CD's as I wanted and give them to as many people as I wanted ---- no questions asked.


After my awe, laughing, and appreciation I was hooked.

I discover means to introduce linux into mission specific situations everwhere I can.

Usally for the cost of the computer...


BTW I have made plenty of money going behind MSC certs and fixing what they can't.

David
5th May 2004, 12:29 PM
hehe, it's blatently taking the piss:

"Linux zealots will try to say that their platform isn't plagued by things like email viruses, but with Windows XP I don't gotta worry about emailing viruses to my friends and family at all. The built-in email client Outlook Express does it automatically, in the background."

To be honest though, the linux vs. windows war is nearly as tiresome as the Mac vs. PC debate.

I'm already using linux for the vast majority of my everyday stuff and, for the most part, it's very good but the fact is there are both advantages and disadvantages to the two separate ways of doing things and I'll not be throwing away my copy of win xp any time soon. Nor will I be hating it. I like windows. It's stable, particularly where 3rd party support is concerned, and for professional audio use linux... well, at the moment, linux doesn't even feature, although progress is being made.

Ug
5th May 2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by David
To be honest though, the linux vs. windows war is nearly as tiresome as the Mac vs. PC debate. Nearly, but not quite. ;)

Pegasus
5th May 2004, 01:50 PM
Don't know, but maybe he won the MSCE in a tombola....

jtang613
5th May 2004, 01:53 PM
That article is so biased and misinformed that it's *almost* funny.

The main thing to note about that article is the source. A low-level IT worker with a questionable education writing an article for an unrecognized publication. Take it with a grain of salt.

fjleal
5th May 2004, 01:55 PM
"(...)with Windows XP I don't gotta worry about emailing viruses to my friends and family at all. The built-in email client Outlook Express does it automatically, in the background."

He's right. Outlook Express really does email a lot of viruses to each user's friends an family, in the background. It even does that in the foreground, too!! ;)

He surely deserves his MSCE. * Are there any left, Bill...? * :)

ewdi
5th May 2004, 03:28 PM
i have 50 years experience, ops i'm only 24 :p hahahha

wshawn
5th May 2004, 04:34 PM
I'm 38. I have over 20, but who cares. Its when your butt is in the chair and everyone is looking at you to produce an answer or resolution, when we find out if you know what you are doing or not.

I went back to school to freshen up my skills. The professors tell me I am over qualified to take the class.

Whatever.. There is always that one little thing that makes like a whole bunch easier when you add it to the rest.

I use windows because I play games. I also develop flash content for the internet.

To my knowledge I have to still use windows for much of that.

I am about getting the job done. Dealing with security issues and viruses, and patches, and thee intentional holes left in (like Internet Explorer not having a real ssl mode) is time consuming and shouldn't be forced on clients unless it has to be.

If a client only wants to write letters, do email and browse the web then give em linux.

scook94
5th May 2004, 04:54 PM
Not only does this guy know nothing about Linux, he appears to know nothing about Windows either! I am totally bemused at the drivel written in that article...

Steve. (MCSE NT4)

electralake
5th May 2004, 05:07 PM
It's got to be a joke.

"Who wants to use an operating system that doesn't learn about you, that doesn't keep track of what you like to look at on the web, listen to, or watch? With Windows XP Home, I have the peace of mind that comes with knowing my habits and activities are being monitored by Microsoft, and my computer's hardware configuration and list of installed software is being stored in a database in Redmond. Windows Longhorn will go even further than XP in this regard, as it won't even run any programs or code that hasn't been registered and approved by Microsoft. Goodbye, Kazaa, WinMX, Limewire, Piolet, your infringing days are numbered! Windows Longhorn will be like having a little cop right inside your computer, something MCSEs such as myself have been demanding for years. Let me just say, it's about f'ing time!"

fjleal
5th May 2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by wshawn
If a client only wants to write letters, do email and browse the web then give em linux.

I believe it is the other way around. Unix systems have been there since the 70's in every big company. Most of these systems are server systems, of course, a market where Microsoft hasn't proved to worth a dime yet (real servers, not SOHO PDCs).

I work and develop software for different platforms since about 15 years ago, and I consider Windows systems to be like gameboxes. Honestly! So if a user only needs email and word processing, give him Windows...

Anyway, wichever system one may prefer or know better, it is always foolish to talk about something one ignores. And that's what the gentleman that wrote that article did.

ilja
5th May 2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by electralake
It's got to be a joke.


ACK

This one is also nice :D http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/linuxbeat3.htm

electralake
5th May 2004, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by ilja
ACK

This one is also nice :D http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/linuxbeat3.htm


If I gave my granny that many choices and then switched the look/feel everyday she would whack me upside the head followed closely afterward by a WTF were you thinking. :D

ghaefb
5th May 2004, 06:41 PM
I mean WTF?? :rolleyes:

wshawn
5th May 2004, 07:22 PM
In defense of Windows... Not really... but a thought...

I have been using Red Hat 7.x for years on a production webserver. I have learned the hard way on how to set firewall and various other settings etc via the CLI.

My single biggest complaint about Fedora is that the "Control Center" doesn't cover enough for setting things the way I want, nor does it always work. Mandrake totally blows Fedora away in this area... not to mention the install is much better ( at least more options-- can be installed with Windows etc easily without thought).

For example: I want the webserver to redirect a subdmain to a fedora box here so that we can run support inhouse without going through a server hundreds of miles from here.

I can't get port 80 to open, no matter what I do in the security settings. System actively blocks it. GOing to have to hit the CLI.

Other thing: I have an nividia card and a ctx monitor. It won't go to 1024x768 no matter what I pull off in the control center.

This worked fine until I upgraded to Fedora 2 Test 3. I was at Fedora 1 Core. This has also worked fine under multiple versions of Mandrake.

I came to Fedora as Redhat is more stable and visible in the linux world. I would almost dare say the Microsoft of Linux. Redhat is the standard everyone uses.

My desire was to get Fedora solid enough so I could put it on clients computers without a lot of stress.

What have I found in the last three days?

I installed all 4 iso's of fedora 2 test 3 and I can't play mp3's! What is up with that? I can whip out Manrake 6 and play mp3's.

MP3's are disabled... Now a computer company is acting like a cop? What's up with that?

If I wanted a cop I would moving into the local precint, or buy windows and use comcast as my ISP, or draw the ire or the RIAA.

Also there is a perl twig update issue. Have to go looking for perl now instead of updating it with the rest of the redhat updates.

Anyway. Enough of the Soap box.

In summary:

I do not like windows.

I long for the days when a distro of linux actually works consistantly everytime when I install it, without looking for things that the OS manufacurer has changed. I understand the world of computers better than most people. I also understand the ever changing basis for the industry, but we shouldn't be worryign if our hardware is going to have problems just because we upgrade.

That is basically the reason I want away from windows.... I don't like their update methods. I want to know what is being changed, I would also like to know why something needs changed. Finally I want to be the person who makes the final decision on how my system is setup and maintained, but at the same time I want the OS to provide me what I need.

Sorry if I'm off the deep end here. Hopefully all will be well with the gold version. And hopfully Fedora will work more on usability than playing cop.

I just want a decent distro...

BTW I left mandrake because of the crappy support after the club was introduced. I PAID for the 6 cd's sets and the support stunk, cause I wouldn't join the club also.

ghaefb
5th May 2004, 08:08 PM
I installed all 4 iso's of fedora 2 test 3 and I can't play mp3's! What is up with that? I can whip out Manrake 6 and play mp3's.

Try RedHat 7.3 and play mp3s :)
I agree with you about Mandrake. Control center is great there.

fjleal
5th May 2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by wshawn
My single biggest complaint about Fedora is that the "Control Center" doesn't cover enough for setting things the way I want, nor does it always work. Mandrake totally blows Fedora away in this area... not to mention the install is much better ( at least more options-- can be installed with Windows etc easily without thought).

Yes , I agree Mandrake has more configuration tools than FC, and some more advanced ones, but they also don't always work the way the're intended to...

http://comic.escomposlinux.org/ecol-46-e.png
:)


Originally posted by wshawn
I have an nividia card and a ctx monitor. It won't go to 1024x768 no matter what I pull off in the control center.
I believe this is a known problem with FC2-test3. FC1 had no such problem. Let's hope the final FC2 also doesn't...

logan5
5th May 2004, 10:13 PM
This is a joke. I can't believe that so many have fallen for it. MSCE's are basically not the brightest and could conceivably write something like this, but this is what's called a "parody". Come on people take a deep breath and count to 10.

Go to the home site - http://www.divisiontwo.com . Be warned that some of the "articles" are not very PC and might be considered R rated, but all of the articles are jokes.

Jman
6th May 2004, 03:42 AM
I almost fell for it until I read the faint print at the bottom of the home page:
DivisionTwo content is sature. All columnists, authors, reporters, and articles are fictitious.

wshawn
7th May 2004, 05:04 PM
I admit it. I fell for it. For me it was simple as I see direct quotes from authentic articles I have read before in the trades.

imdeemvp
7th May 2004, 07:02 PM
1. the guy is really a computer idiot!

2. he loves wasting his time patching and defragmenting his pc

3. i would not be surprised that he does not know that reason why M$ was sued in class action case for more than 1 billion!

4. he likes wasting money M$ XP online price from $99-$129 not including all the other software he will need to make his pc work!

5. can some one say V I R U S "affected systems: NT, 2000, XP, 2003 servers!" i dont think he knows L I N U X does not get affected with virus!

6. most of the people that download music "illegally USE M$ and get this do you actually want a cop inside your pc?

7. was he using the mandrake plant or MANDRAKE OS? which comes with Totem= mp3 and dvd player, OPEN OFFICE 1.1 for your documents and writing needs, KMAIL or Evolution, K3B for your burning needs, and for internet i use SBC Yahoo dsl and also set it up as dial connection too! AOL sucks! been there done that!

AND FINALLY FOLKS.....some people when they have nothing to say or do will say or do stupid things!

Jorge Lopez (George Lopez the comidian?) Moron Sucking C**k Engineer DeVry gradute that explains it all! :D

I AM PROUD TO USE LINUX FOR 1 YEAR NOW!

David
7th May 2004, 08:34 PM
some of you might find the link below useful: ;)

http://www.buymybook.co.uk/irony_detector.htm

Pegasus
7th May 2004, 08:38 PM
Coming Soon - Sarcasm Detector (Yeah, that'll sell!)

:)

ilja
7th May 2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by David
some of you might find the link below useful: ;)

http://www.buymybook.co.uk/irony_detector.htm

There is nor a rpm-package nor an yum repo, so that's nothing for me ;)

jtang613
7th May 2004, 09:46 PM
Yup, I fell for it. It did seem suspicious - I mean, even DeVry grads aren't *that* out of touch.
;)

Avinash
11th May 2004, 05:59 AM
I am samsung 40GB HD with 4 vfat partitions 10 GB each and W2K Pro on C: drive. I want to install Fedora Core 1 on F: drive. Is it possible, how can I do this. Please help. I am beginner for Linux.

ilja
11th May 2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Avinash
I am samsung 40GB HD with 4 vfat partitions 10 GB each and W2K Pro on C: drive. I want to install Fedora Core 1 on F: drive. Is it possible, how can I do this. Please help. I am beginner for Linux.

1st) wrong thread
2nd) As far as I know you can install Fedora only on ext2, ext3 or reiserfs. So the partition you use must be formated in one of that filesystems.
This can be done during the installation. But there is only one problem. In Linux there is no C:\ D:\ ... partitions they are called another way. There is a system behind it, so your C:\ might be hda1, and your F:\ might be hda4. But you can never be sure, so I would advice to delete the partition with the help of a Windows programm before installing Fedora, so you won't delete the wrong one during the installation. The rest is no problem.

Ug
11th May 2004, 11:34 AM
(Any more of that and this thread wll be split :p)

STiAT
11th May 2004, 12:50 PM
I was shocked by how few preference-gathering applications were running in the background and how it did absolutely no "calling home", never even contacting the Mandrake server to make sure my product's license key was intact.

Can't you see the irony there?


As I am sitting here writing this column, my computer is busily defragging my hard drive, running my virus scanner, and I'm being shown a list of all the latest MS security patches that are being remotely installed on my machine today.

Also there, there are automatically security update features in linux.
The rest of this paragraph shows up he either has no clue or just is talking **** to show the typical newbie thinking.

Pegasus
11th May 2004, 12:52 PM
I've seen a good signature:


The BEST oxymoron: Microsoft Works (R)

Thoreau
11th May 2004, 02:41 PM
seen at the bottom of the main page

"All DivisionTwo content is sature. All columnists, authors, reporters, and articles are fictitious."

it is still funny though

kimatrix
11th May 2004, 11:57 PM
does this dood know what a pc is?
I meen he don't know what windows is neither does he know what linux is.
Ewen if he does know what he is talking about (NOT) you should always try some new thigns so you learn new aspects that's what's pc about. But hey this dood is dumber than my dad, and my dad is a real PC noob.

Ach thar will always be poeple who talk about things they don't know.

I wonder how much money did he get frome m$ :P

ilja
12th May 2004, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by kimatrix
does this dood know what a pc is?
I meen he don't know what windows is neither does he know what linux is.
Ewen if he does know what he is talking about (NOT) you should always try some new thigns so you learn new aspects that's what's pc about. But hey this dood is dumber than my dad, and my dad is a real PC noob.

Ach thar will always be poeple who talk about things they don't know.

I wonder how much money did he get frome m$ :P

chill a bit :) It is just fun.

kimatrix
12th May 2004, 05:37 PM
ilja my txt wasn't ment to be hard as it maybe sounds :P
hum i should have used more :P , next time i will :D
sorry :D

ilja
12th May 2004, 06:07 PM
np. irony-tags are also a nice thing :D

harlekin
12th May 2004, 07:22 PM
<all_just_fiction_modus_on>anymore quotes of the article and no 1 has 2 click on the link... it's completely written within this thread.
and it was obviously irony and i had a good laugh! thx dude!!

i did the same with my grandma... expect i compiled the bavarian spellcheching into OO, so she can write in her normal tongue (but still got nor letter or email from her) might be she forgot my email...

4 the general discussion windows vs linux:

what would u do if windows dies tomorrow? no 1 2 laugh at, no jokes bout computer-security and no target 4 the whole bunch of script-kiddies...
could be than they'll find a new hobby (feed the world 4 example) or they just take another and we will be invaded by thousands of root-kits (remember the debian-mirror'S) ...

no: it's better 2 have windows (on everyone elses pc) as long as they finally get rid of windows-fileformats like .xls .doc .wma .wmv etc....
or at least half and half (im staying on linux)
with longhorn coming i would boot into kernel 3.0 come over gnome 3.2 and everythings fine :)
in the meantime the longhorn user (thats needs a 6gHz Pentium / 4 GByte Ram and a couple of TByte of harddiskspace is still on formating his 1. partition with ntfs .....
2 days later he boots finaly into his longhorn system but from now on he has to buy all the software he needs (expect for the media player that ist still delivered 2gether with the os)
so he brought m$ office (the 2006 ultra plus super extended version). it started (surprisingly) after some seconds (longer than it takes 2 start OO 1.1 on my 64mByte celeron PC) and got the (imho somehow oversized) system really 2 86% CPu usage (constant)
THAT NO BUG, IT'S A FEATURE!!

so far 4 now

cya harlekin




</all_just_fiction_modus>

foolish
12th May 2004, 07:33 PM
I like this quoute: "...with Windows XP I don't gotta worry about emailing viruses to my friends and family at all. The built-in email client Outlook Express does it automatically, in the background."

Wow! That's quite a feature. He doesn't have to worry about mailing all those viruses to his friends and family manually anymore, outlook now send viruses to everyone you know automaticly. Neat!

wshawn
13th May 2004, 02:19 AM
Sheesh....


It was funny but now....

redrum
18th May 2004, 04:54 AM
If Windows is so stable...maybe I should have disregarded the 5 blue screens that XP Pro gave me and stuck with that instead of switching to Fedora ;s

DocHoliday
18th May 2004, 09:19 PM
Wshawn I mean no disrespect but I seriously don't think you know what you are on about. A large population of Linux users are more of enthusiasts than professionals, hence there are a lot of forums that have people who are really impressed by Linux as an alternative OS to Windows. This can span from many reasons if you are interested by all that techie stuff, as are we all. You should be able to appreciate the fact that newbies who think Linux is great mainly do so because it's a new environment which has a lot of hype around it. However as a professional IT consultant, I never suggest a solution to my clients based on hype, but more requirements, then base that on industry reports and conclusions.

I don't use Windows OS. This isn't because I think Microsoft has done a terrible Job with their operating system nor because of their TCO issues, but mainly because my work requires me to work in a Unix environment. However if my clients asked me to provide them a solution for their web application, e.g. Ecommerce solution, I wouldn't immediately tell them to use Apache as their web server and Linux as their main OS platform. Why? I'll explain.

Solutions have to be based on their merits. Even if using Linux was more beneficial than using another OS, the cost benefit analysis may reveal otherwise. Additionally, contrary to popular misconception, Microsoft does not have the worst track record when it comes to security vulnerabilities. Also contrary to public wisdom, Unix- and Linux-based systems are just as vulnerable to viruses, Trojans, and worms. Furthermore, Linux is not crash proof. The errata's and bug reports for individual distributions are provided on-site for the public to view. My copy of Redhat 9 Enterprise has crashed several times even after applying the appropriate patch so much that we had to migrate to Sun Solaris for a SAP implementation. The level and speed at which patches are produced for both Windows and Linux operating systems is debatable however Microsoft does provide technical on-site consultants to help with any pitfalls, this in my experience is extremely difficult with Linux because packages are maintained by individual groups.

All in all, Linux is not the next generation OS, neither is it more advanced in computing power than Windows Server 2003 ? it's an alternative.

Also, you mentioned that if someone had basic requirements such as word-processing, browsing the Internet etc, then Linux is definitely NOT the way to go. A slight hiccup with a hardware may render the computer useless and then what are you going to do? Send over a RHCP over to fix the issue?

Linux has it's merits but most of the time people are clouded by hype rather than practical applicability, this in my opinion doesn't do the Linux community an favours. A funny thing I should say to finish off my post, at a recent IS exhibition in London, Excel building they were hosting a IS convention where participants where Oracle, Novel, Cisco, Microsoft etc. Microsoft were giving away free trial copies of their Windows server 2003 OS. This guys shouted out, "Windows is rubbish, Linux is better", when confronted by the Windows specialist as to why he thought Windows was rubbish and Linux better, he replied "It keeps crashing, plus the Linux interface is better". As you can imagine people started laughing, and it was all good fun, but it made me realise that it was just another typical response from a Linux enthusiast, not at all giving enough justice to Linux.

Thoreau
18th May 2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by DocHoliday

All in all, Linux is not the next generation OS, neither is it more advanced in computing power than Windows Server 2003 ? it's an alternative.


That is correct, most people are blinded by the hype, and figure somthing that has soo much hype must be infallible. As people who have delt with both sides know, this is not the case.

the story about the guy who says "windows is rubbish" i would laugh at that also.

ogetbilo
23rd May 2004, 10:27 AM
Well, this guy convinced me. I'm switching to Windoze!



























KIDDING!:lol:

Prometheus
26th May 2004, 12:08 AM
I think this is my favorite line in the whole thing "open source fascists," Lets all go out and support our good friend Benito in Italy!!! Wow, that is a really funny article though. The thing i think is great is that he mentions the lazy pirate teen agers, well most of my pirate friends end up pirating XP Enterprise and using that on their system, not Linux lol. Irony abounds

postlogic
26th May 2004, 08:22 AM
I wish I didn't have to use windows anymore. it's all because of TWO applications: adobe photoshop and 3dsmax. but I hear they are porting 3dsmax to linux, so perhaps one day I will be able to migrate...?

fjleal
26th May 2004, 08:57 AM
postlogic wrote:
I wish I didn't have to use windows anymore. it's all because of TWO applications: adobe photoshop and 3dsmax. but I hear they are porting 3dsmax to linux, so perhaps one day I will be able to migrate...?
I don't know about 3DSMax, but talking about Photoshop, have you tried The Gmp v2? It's very nice.

Ug
26th May 2004, 09:18 AM
Gimp 2.0 is fantastic! :D

JonR
26th May 2004, 09:31 AM
I'm working hard to prefer Linux to Windows but like postlogic there are a couple of applications I just can't find good equivalents for on Linux from OpenSource. One is a reliable MS Access lookalike with a good visual form designer which an Access user can pick up easily. The other is music typesetting software of the quality and usability of Sibelius or Finale (I'd even be prepared to pay money (well a little) for this one...). Until I can hit those two spots I'm stuck with Windows.

Ug
26th May 2004, 09:40 AM
You could always purchase star office for its database app...

JonR
26th May 2004, 10:04 AM
yeah, purchase, that's the snag, it's not that I'm trying to freeload but funds are v limited... I'm hoping OpenOffice will grow a visual db designer one day.

Ug
26th May 2004, 10:23 AM
I am as well...