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olwe
4th September 2007, 04:26 PM
Maybe this isn't the right place for this, but anyway...

I was just perusing my O'Reilly "Learning GNU Emacs" (3rd Ed) and, alas, I see yet another super-app that really hasn't ever become THE "hyper-app." That is to say, it tries to be a one-stop-shopping app but in this modern GUI era fails. The obvious failure is (unless you're the world's greatest ELisp coder) it doesn't do in situ OLE, and it doesn't do Web (very well). Yet again, a super-app fails. Sure, Emacs was arguably a hyper-app in the old pre-web days; you could fire up Emacs and never need to leave it. But it never really made the GUI cut, always sort of a text-based curiosity, sort of like Lotus123 for DOS.

Then came MS's Office with all its OLE in situ spangle...and that too didn't really take off. It was buggy, then it was overkill for all the secretaries who really never got past Word or a bit of Exel. And of course it's totally Web unaware.

Then came the Web--and everyone went gaga and didn't mind that it was just glorified stateless buffer (page) slamming--just like a green terminal IBM mainframe CICS beast at your bank.

Then came Java applets ... and I did chimp backflips! Finally someone gets it and is moving seriously towards the hyper-app. But the Java browser went nowhere as did all the mega-applet projects.

Then came Flash, then came AJAX. Alas, I still don't see where a super-mega-browser gets us, state-saavy or no. Sure, for a kiosk-type, all-net sort of world, a hyper-browser would be okay, but hey, I've got a computer (laptop), and it's running an OS (Linux Fed7 for me), and it sits mainly on my desk at home ... just like the vast majority of the computer users of the world. We're a long way off (if ever) from the total kiosk/network-only computing experience. HENCE, we still need the hyper-app, and it ain't just a browser doing AJAX.

Sure, there was Open .NET, there was Gecko/Foxfire, but is anyone really trying to combine what Emacs AND Firefox AND Konqueror AND OpenOffice can do? Why is Emacs so anti-GUI? Why is OpenOffice so incredibly un-hackable? Why hasn't Gecko tried to do OLE+Web+Office+Emacs? Or am I just not aware?

The way I see it there's a great, great need for the computer-based hyper-app, and for years many apps have tried and failed to be the hyper-app. Again, if we get rid of all personal harddriving/MyDataInMyHands and go totally net, sure a hyper-browser will suffice and let's go with Web 2.0, 3.0 etc. But I don't think that's coming for a long time--if ever. So a PC-based, OS-based hyper-app is still needed.... Your thoughts, please.

Jman
6th September 2007, 04:55 AM
Emacs was arguably a hyper-app in the old pre-web days; you could fire up Emacs and never need to leave it. But it never really made the GUI cut, always sort of a text-based curiosity, sort of like Lotus123 for DOS.

If you want a do all environment you might never leave see IDE platforms like Eclipse and NetBeans, which mostly do Java but are extensible to do whatever you might like to do. Of course emacs remains relevant today. XEmacs even has GUI I think.




Sure, there was Open .NET, there was Gecko/Foxfire, but is anyone really trying to combine what Emacs AND Firefox AND Konqueror AND OpenOffice can do? Why is Emacs so anti-GUI? Why is OpenOffice so incredibly un-hackable? Why hasn't Gecko tried to do OLE+Web+Office+Emacs? Or am I just not aware?

Now why would I want to combine my browser with my office suite? That's what IE does on Windows and it drives me nuts when it loads a document in IE. If you're going to integrate them make the document experience just as good as it is today on the dedicated applications.



The way I see it there's a great, great need for the computer-based hyper-app, and for years many apps have tried and failed to be the hyper-app.


There is a problem with such a project: its ambition. With a scope so big it's hard to please everybody and you don't know when to stop adding features. Integration is nice but I don't want a do all app.

RupertPupkin
6th September 2007, 05:12 AM
GNU Emacs already is the "hyper-app". In one Emacs window I can browse the web (w3), read email (vm), chat on IRC (erc), listen to music (emms), and read newsgroups (gnus). Oh, and I can edit files too. :) And the Emacs included with Fedora 7 has Gtk+ and anti-aliased font support, so the GUI looks a little better than the old Xaw3D version.

olwe
6th September 2007, 03:21 PM
And the Emacs included with Fedora 7 has Gtk+ and anti-aliased font support, so the GUI looks a little better than the old Xaw3D version.

I've got E22.1.x on Fed7, are you saying I can use a true-type font in Emacs? How? I found this link: http://times.usefulinc.com/2005/12/02-emacs-xft

...but that seems a bit out of date and very spooky to a Fed7 yum user like me.

RupertPupkin
6th September 2007, 08:36 PM
I've got E22.1.x on Fed7, are you saying I can use a true-type font in Emacs? How?
To use a 13pt Bitstream Vera Sans Mono anti-aliased font in Emacs, put this line in your ~/.Xdefaults file (create the file if it doesn't exist):

emacs.font: -bitstream-bitstream vera sans mono-medium-r-normal--13-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
Then run this command in a terminal window:
xrdb -merge ~/.Xdefaults

Start up Emacs and you should see the change. If not, restart X.

olwe
6th September 2007, 08:55 PM
Great, seemed to work, but is there a chance of getting a true-type font or at least aliasing also?