PDA

View Full Version : Sort this out in my head...



1jackjack
29th June 2007, 11:01 PM
New to Linux, but love it. Learning more and more each day (thanks). Just gotta check a few things; sort them out in my head...

(1) When I click 'add/remove software', that just loads a program called pirut, which is the gui for the fedora rpm manager? (2) If I removed that package, then I would have to install/update/remove all my rpm's from the terminal? (3) The fedora rpm manager only manages rpm packages suggested by fedora. If I download an rpm file from a webpage, it is in no way associated with that manager.

(4) Is there a full list of installed programs like in windows? Or are we beyond that; we download sources and compile them ourselves... we keep our own list...

(5) yum is completely separate from the fedora rpm manager. I can use yum to manage any rpm file.

(6) "repos" = "repository" = similar to an rss feed in that if you subscribe to one for a specific program, you will be alerted when there is an update for that program?

Thanks, sorry if my ignorance is insulting... :)
Jack

JN4OldSchool
29th June 2007, 11:18 PM
you are asking all the right questions. Let's keep it basic. Yum is the package manager for fedora. Pirut (and pup which is the updater) are just front ends. Right now, open a terminal and su to root:

su
root password
yum install yumex

after that installs open it (it will be in the system section of the menu) and compare it to Pirut. These all run off yum.

Now, stay away from installing anything not in the repo when you have the choice. If you dont have the choice then you try to get an RPM package. You install this with the RPM -i command. The next choice is installing from source. This isnt difficult either and you should do this once or twice just to feel it out, but the truth is 99% of everything you will need is in the repos. I am sure others can expound on this, for instance there is a way to use RPM -i with another command that will tie that RPM into yum, I just dont know it and have never used it. Again, i install most everything from the repos anyway.

edit: sorry, had to switch computers, I was playing on my kids buntu rig...Try these links out for some basic info:

http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-fc6.html
http://www.geocities.jp/rondonko/fc6notes.html
http://easylinux.info/wiki/Fedora_fc5
http://easylinux.info/wiki/Fedora_frog
http://fedorasolved.org/
http://jimlawrnc.mine.nu/mywiki/Home

also, look for any Firewing1 post in this forum and click on the link in his sig to find all his How-to's. He is awesome!

Dies
29th June 2007, 11:31 PM
1.) Yes "Pirut" and "Yumex" are just nice front ends to yum. I recommend Yumex.

2.) Yes. I wouldn't suggest removing it though, even if you don't use it.

3.) Sorry, not sure what you mean by this. If you download some random rpm and double click to install it should still try to resolve any deps using whatever repos you have available.

4.) Using Yumex ( not sure about Pirut since I don't use it ) you can filter for installed packages and see everything that is installed on your system, unless of course you install something from source then you have to keep track of that yourself. Which is why there is a package manager. You can also use command line rpm to list all installed packages.

If you have to install from source you can try to use checkinstall to generate an rpm, though it's rarely worked right for me.

5.) Not quite and yes.

6.) You can think of repos as a "warehouse" for programs, once you have a repo installed whenever you run an update it will look through that repo and notify you if there is a newer version available.

1jackjack
29th June 2007, 11:59 PM
Thank you both very much for your time. I also prefer yumex; seems to make more sense (less abstraction)...
more more more...

(1) If i download sun java rpm, and install with
rpm -i xxxx.rpm
will it be added to yum's list? If not, then how?

(2) is there a file in all rpm's that lists it's dependencies? else how does yum know / find the dependent packages?

(3) In linux, what is the equivalent of the windows folder "program files"? i.e. if i install an rpm, where will the programs internals be kept? Also, for a sense of order; i would like to know where to unpack my downloaded source files!

downloaded files;
(4) *.bin is a self extracting source file; just run it
(5) *.tar.gz etc... is simply a compressed source file; just need to decompress it

(6) yumex says it's only got 2 repos; 'fedora' and 'updates'. what are these, specifically?

You guys are the best!

Dies
30th June 2007, 01:25 AM
1.) Yes

2.) See these links if you're interested in learning more about rpm, also don't forget about "man". Most man pages are pretty crappy but can be a very useful reference, some programs might not have a man page but most do. Just type "man rpm" or "man <whatever program>", without the quotes of course.

http://wiki.rpm.org/

http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/

3.) Unlike Windows where all or most of a programs components are kept in one folder, most linux programs spread themselves out, depending on whether its a binary, library, documentation, etc.

/usr/bin , /usr/lib , etc.

If you want to know where an rpm will place it's files or just to get a better understanding download an rpm, then right click and extract it, you can look through the folder to see where things will be installed by looking at the structure. ;)

As far as where to extract source files, it doesn't really matter where you do it, though you might want to keep the folder somewhere since some are nice enough to have an "uninstall" feature.

5.) You'll need to extract it then read the README or INSTALL file to know where to go but it's typically

./configure
make
make install

6.) "Fedora" would be all the original packages, while "updates" would be any newer versions of those packages.

I would suggest you also use Livna

http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/

for third party stuff like drivers, multimedia codecs/players, etc.

mobsta
30th June 2007, 04:12 AM
Another good pcommand I use is when installing a downloaded rpm "yum localinstall whateverpackage.rpm", this will take care of the deps if they're in the repositories.

Wayne
30th June 2007, 04:55 AM
For Java you might want to follow these instructions:

http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f7.html#java

Wayne

JN4OldSchool
30th June 2007, 02:56 PM
Another good pcommand I use is when installing a downloaded rpm "yum localinstall whateverpackage.rpm", this will take care of the deps if they're in the repositories.

This is the command I was referring to in my post. Thanks.

Jongi
30th June 2007, 04:48 PM
If I compile files from source, I typically extract the to /usr/src/program. That way I can keep track of those I have installed from source quite easily.

1jackjack
2nd July 2007, 06:03 PM
You guyz rock. Thanks a lot for all of your replies. If anyone's still checking this thread; these are a few last yes/no questions that pop to mind, and would really help my understanding!

(1) What is the advantage of "yum localinstall *.rpm" over "yum install *.rpm"? Because I'm sure that when I do "yum install *.rpm", it sorts out dependencies as well...

(2) What is the difference between "yum install *.rpm" and "rpm -i *.rpm"?

(3) There is no safe/reliable way to turn a source file into an rpm?

(4) When I install a 3rd party rpm, it will appear in pirut in "List view", but not in "browse view", as pirut would not know how to catagorize it?

(5) When I install from source (unpacked, ./configure, make, make install), am I simply compiling the source code and maybe updating a few config files?

(6) I can see that it's easy to uninstall a package that was installed with yum, but how do you uninstall a package installed from source?

(7) If I install a repo, does that mean (a) I will have extra packages to choose from in pirut? and (b) if I install one of those new packages, when i check for updates, I will be notified if there is an update for it?

Thanks again

markkuk
2nd July 2007, 09:14 PM
(1) What is the advantage of "yum localinstall *.rpm" over "yum install *.rpm"?
One will work and the other fails. "yum localinstall" is the right command to install RPM files that are already downloaded to your machine. "yum install" will try to find a package "*.rpm" from the enabled repositories and fails. Yum will resolve dependencies both with localinstall and install commands.


(2) What is the difference between "yum install *.rpm" and "rpm -i *.rpm"?

If you mean "yum localinstall *.rpm" and "rpm -i *.rpm", the latter won't try to resolve dependencies, it simply fails if there are any unsatisfied dependencies.


(3) There is no safe/reliable way to turn a source file into an rpm?
http://www.gurulabs.com/GURULABS-RPM-LAB/GURULABS-RPM-GUIDE-v1.0.PDF


(4) When I install a 3rd party rpm, it will appear in pirut in "List view", but not in "browse view", as pirut would not know how to catagorize it?
Yes, if the RPM isn't from a repo with category information.


(5) When I install from source (unpacked, ./configure, make, make install), am I simply compiling the source code and maybe updating a few config files?
Yes.


(6) I can see that it's easy to uninstall a package that was installed with yum, but how do you uninstall a package installed from source?
Sometimes "make uninstall" from the original source directory works (assuming you didn't delete it after installation), in other cases you must try to figure out which files were installed by the package and delete the files manually.


(7) If I install a repo, does that mean (a) I will have extra packages to choose from in pirut? and (b) if I install one of those new packages, when i check for updates, I will be notified if there is an update for it?
Yes and yes.

Jongi
2nd July 2007, 09:41 PM
On unistal;ling from source, that is one of the reasons I extract to /usr/src/program. That way even if I have removed the source file, I can re-extract to it and run make uninstall (I think sometimes I have had to run ./configure, make, make uninstall).

1jackjack
3rd July 2007, 12:33 AM
I think I nearly understand Linux!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(1)

One will work and the other fails

So, when i downloaded picasa-2.2.2820-5.i386.rpm to Desktop, and did
cd Desktop
yum install picasa-2.2.2820-5.i386.rpm

It didnt actually use my downloaded file, but it managed to find that in a repo?

AND (2)

Sometimes "make uninstall" from the original source directory works (assuming you didn't delete it after installation)

When you install from source, you can delete that whole unpacked directory?

Thanks muchly!

1jackjack
5th July 2007, 09:19 AM
Only 2 simple (y/n) questions... any ideas? Thanks

JN4OldSchool
5th July 2007, 01:22 PM
yes and yes