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ChantCd
6th June 2007, 06:19 PM
Are there any hacks out there to let me put hard drives to sleep, etc.?

Linux power management really sucks, even if it's not their fault (no help from hardware manufacturers, etc.)

I hope that the Linux community understands this -- it needs to be the next priority. Forget about virtualization, 3-d effects, and all that crap -- we need to get Linux "plain old working" for the average desktop -- that includes
1. Working "out of the box"
2. Coming with programs people expect (Flash, MP3, etc.)
3. Good power management -- hard drive, monitor, suspend mode, etc. -- the PC should be able to use much less energy when the energy isn't called-for.
4. I know this has been beat into the ground, but we REALLY CAN'T EXPECT NON-PROGRAMMERS TO HIT THE COMMAND LINE. I know, they're stupid, they're spoiled, etc. But that's the computing environment in 2007! It's reality, like it or not.

Matthew

ChantCd
6th June 2007, 06:25 PM
I should add something --

Excuses are never good, especially in a competitive business context. Will Intel show mercy to AMD because they "don't have enough manufacturing capacity"? Of course not. Same for operating systems. It's a competitive environment, and if one company can't deliver (even with a "good excuse") it will be too bad for them.

An excuse, by definition, is an expression of weakness and vulnerability. Its purpose is to bring the hearer to compassion/mercy.

So now do you see how foolish it is for Linux die-hards (I'm a Linux fan myself, BTW) to make excuses all day? The excuses won't mean squat for the people who stick with Windows because they want more than 1 hours' runtime on their laptop battery.

At best, the excuse will bring them to say, "I see. That's a shame. Poor Linux. I guess I'll stick with Windows for now then."

Matthew

danwaineo
6th June 2007, 06:29 PM
Well you better get to work on programming those features (and I don't want to hear any excuses).

Edit: It's a joke. (but there's a point in there somewhere)

ChantCd
6th June 2007, 06:49 PM
Yes, I know. I've heard that argument many times before. We all need to start hacking the kernel ourselves.

But since most of us are under-qualified (or don't have enough free time) for the task, we'll have to resign ourselves to Linux being a 3rd-world OS forever -- and I mean that "for better or worse". It's just the way it is.

Personally, I'd say it's "for worse", because I like Linux a lot and I believe it has a lot of potential. I'm not happy to admit that Linux needs a lot of work. I really hate the M$ culture and software. But I'm not going to blind myself to the truth.

If we can't at least speak the truth -- EVEN ABOUT THE OS WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE -- then we'll never get anywhere. As various detox organizations will tell you, "the first step in recovery is to admit you have a problem."

That's my point.

Matthew

brunson
6th June 2007, 07:27 PM
But since most of us are under-qualified (or don't have enough free time) for the task, we'll have to resign ourselves to Linux being a 3rd-world OS forever -- and I mean that "for better or worse". It's just the way it is.
Pay me enough and I'll do it. Send me a PM and I'll tell you where to send the check. I think $50K should be enough to get started.

Jackass.

danwaineo
6th June 2007, 08:36 PM
Yes, I know. I've heard that argument many times before. We all need to start hacking the kernel ourselves.

But since most of us are under-qualified (or don't have enough free time) for the task, we'll have to resign ourselves to Linux being a 3rd-world OS forever -- and I mean that "for better or worse". It's just the way it is.


Your second post say "no excuses", but there you went a gave an excuse. I'd say your reasons for not contributing are valid (I have the same ones), but the reasons for the current state of linux (which I think is pretty good) may be equally valid.

If you are going to require people to hold to such a high ideal, then you should a least hold yourself to the same ideal. For example - read books, go to night school, etc.

Personally I love linux and it has helped me greatly both personally and professionally. I'm grateful to all who have given to the project: Linus and on down.

ChantCd
6th June 2007, 08:38 PM
Pay me enough and I'll do it. Send me a PM and I'll tell you where to send the check. I think $50K should be enough to get started.

Jackass.


What are you, some kind of fanboy? You can't bear to see "your OS" disparaged?
We're not a bunch of 12 year olds arguing Nintendo vs. Sega or PS3 vs. X-box...are we?

Name-calling isn't going to get the Linux community anywhere. That's my other point.

Matthew

ChantCd
6th June 2007, 08:42 PM
Your second post say "no excuses", but there you went a gave an excuse. I'd say your reasons for not contributing are valid (I have the same ones), but the reasons for the current state of linux (which I think is pretty good) may be equally valid.

If you are going to require people to hold to such a high ideal, then you should a least hold yourself to the same ideal. For example - read books, go to night school, etc.

Personally I love linux and it has helped me greatly both personally and professionally. I'm grateful to all who have given to the project: Linus and on down.

Actually, I did notice the irony.

HOWEVER -- here is the big difference.

I say "I don't have the time/talent" which means I lower myself to the level of loser. No harm done, since I'm nobody.

But can LINUX do the same? Linux can't become an awesome OS riding on a bunch of excuses. Will people "forgive" Linux enough so that it becomes #1? Of course not. They're going to hold it to the same ideal they hold M$ -- respective annual budgets notwithstanding.

My only point was that if SOMEONE doesn't fix some basic problems -- and stop worrying about things that AREN'T so basic, Linux is going to be a hobby OS and nothing more.

Some people actually care about electricity consumption, for instance -- especially laptop users. I can't use SpeedStep in Linux, nor will Linux ever put my (not-used) hard drive to sleep. Windows does it just fine -- and I don't think putting a hard drive to sleep is a huge deal that requires thousands of man-hours.

Matthew

brunson
7th June 2007, 06:46 PM
What are you, some kind of fanboy? You can't bear to see "your OS" disparaged?
We're not a bunch of 12 year olds arguing Nintendo vs. Sega or PS3 vs. X-box...are we?

Name-calling isn't going to get the Linux community anywhere. That's my other point.

Matthew
My point is that for the most part Linux is developed and supported by volunteers working for free. You can't program, you don't have time to learn and you're unwilling to contribute financially to the development of the features you say are important. So you just came here to whine? You're a troll.

ChantCd
7th June 2007, 07:01 PM
I know, because I am bringing up legitimate issues that affect the future of Linux I'm a troll.

I'm just bringing up unpleasant truths, which makes me persona non grata.

If anyone REALLY thinks I'm a troll, and that I'm just randomly visiting a forum and trying to tick people off to elicit a response (the definition of a troll) please feel free to report my post. I'm sure the forum mods don't want trolls on their board.

Matthew

MadCat1118
8th June 2007, 02:18 AM
I think the developers are doing a pretty good job of power management already. My laptop battery lasts about 4 hours on windows xp and on fedora 7 it lasts about 5 hours. Seems to hold up to the industry standard pretty well. But, I would love to see what improvements can be made if there really is room for it.

3006828
8th June 2007, 07:16 AM
my core 2 duo centrion machines battery is the same in vista and ubuntu.