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Genecks
3rd June 2007, 08:18 AM
It just worked with my Netgear wg111v2 wireless USB right off the bat. I didn't need to program a single thing.

system specification: Compaq Prescario SR2020NX

I found the installation to be alright, but I was disliking how I had to setup and configure the memory for the partition. I did a custom install, but I couldn't figure out how the memory was being dished out from my hard drive. I constantly set a value, and watched the aftermath be converted to megabytes on the installation screen.

I'd have to give the installation a 3 out of 5.

Partitioning the drive wasn't too complicated, because I've done it before with different Linux operating systems. This was for dual-booting. However, something that annoyed me was the GRUB menu. It didn't automatically notice the other Linux operating systems I had installed, nor could I figure out what /sda was right away. I assume it is the MBR partition, but I didn't want it to be where Windows was located. Also, I find it pretty odd that the partition recognition called my Windows partition "other" instead of "Windows XP." When I had used Kubuntu, it noticed this partition and named it within the lines of "Windows XP Media Edition." Apparently, the partition recognition needs some more work.

Assessment on the installation 3 out of 5
Assessment of the ease of use 3 out of 5

After the installation, I had to deal with the desktop. I noticed I couldn't see my mouse anywhere. I suppose this was because I was using an Nvidia video card. Maybe it wasn't because of that. I think it was, though, because I dealt with this kind of problem. Also, how I dealt with this problem because of the nvidia in Kubuntu worked on Fedora.

I had to use Option "HWCursor" "off" in the device section of xorg.conf to see my mouse after a good reboot. I think any newcomer would be instantly turned off by this, especially since he or she probably couldn't access the Internet with wireless to find a solution on the web.

To say the least, from a glance, I don't see any improvement in Fedora Core 7. I think it's pretty much the same, unless others can get their devices working. But since I have something that's been on the market over a year, and it's a popular device that hasn't been installed into the OS, I'm giving Fedora Core 7 a good 7 out of 10. Maybe the 10th edition will be a 10.

Genecks
3rd June 2007, 09:13 AM
I left Fedora when it was in version 5. I did this because it just wasn't working with my wireless. I'm sure when people start making sure wireless works for their OS, then people will start to accept those OSs. Other than that, I'm back to try Fedora Core 7 to play with it. However, I'll have to say I'm more reliant on the operating system that gives me instant Internet access: Kubuntu. I've spent weeks trying to figure out how to setup Internet access before with my broadcom, and I don't know if all of you go into congitivie dissonance about this, but an operating system isn't good enough if it can't supply to a person's needs.

I don't think Fedora Core 7 is going to supply these needs. And to tell you the truth, I don't know why those who released it haven't understood that they need to work on making sure wireless works on their operating system. Instead of setting up things myself, why don't programmers and others simply embed this stuff already into Fedora Core? I don't get it. Copyright problems? It's open-source. Any person working on the project could indepently breakoff and simply create stuff for Fedora Core 7.

Anyway, I dumped Fedora a long time ago. If Kubuntu offers me Internet, I'm glad, because I don't like wasting time to figure out things when I could be studying protein folding, molecular construction of biological components, and so much more. Of course, in the end, I've dumped all OSs for Windows, because it ultimately provides to those who have more money than time. It's simple economics.

pete_1967
3rd June 2007, 12:42 PM
Boy we feel so sad that you left us and even more so that you left Linux completely.

Next time you're waiting for your Windows box to become usable when it keeps loading services and looking for updates while you'd actually like to use the computer, or when you're sitting and waiting your anti-virus to stop scanning and returning at least some resources back to you, or you go through your weekly defragging, enjoy that you actually paid money for not being able to you use your operating system.

Not to mention when you do yet another reboot after yet another Windows security update, or any other software update such as Acrobat Reader.

I'm sure you'll be proud and happy that you opted to pay money for an OS that you saved time (did you really?) in setting up and now can keep enjoying not to have any control over, and be able to use it because all the commercial security programs and all the maintenance and all reboots you have to do to enjoy your "Productivity Software".

You must feel really proud in knowledge that you actually paid money for not being able to use your OS.

bob
3rd June 2007, 01:15 PM
Genecks, the core of your message seems to be directed to the Developers who don't monitor this Forum. We're here to provide pointers, workarounds and such when problems come up, but you really need to make your points over here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate

And, as to finding other distros, it's really the Debian base that handles that so well. I'll agree that any Debian system does an excellent job of adding other distros and that Red Hat falls short. I'll also agree that it's a shame that fixes for components aren't easily ported between distros so that Wireless and other common elements can work for every distro. But, that coding is far beyond my skills.

As to Windows, well it does control 95% of the market. You'd hope that anyone producing an internet product would make sure their product was compatable. Use whatever works for you and good luck.

JN4OldSchool
3rd June 2007, 01:41 PM
Gee, I really dont know what to say....

bob
3rd June 2007, 01:47 PM
(Probably a good thing :D )

leigh123linux
3rd June 2007, 01:58 PM
(Probably a good thing :D )


I deleted my first post in this thread :D ) ( it would have been post #2 )

Dies
3rd June 2007, 02:08 PM
I deleted my first post in this thread :D ) ( it would have been post #2 )

Smart man.

Just one more in a long line, it's getting really pointless to even bother with.

Maybe the admins should merge all these types of threads into one big one, sure it would take a while but....

Maybe we could have a new section and call it

Why I Left Fedora for < enter your preferred OS here >

That way all these "people" would have a place of their own and threads posted anywhere else could be automatically deleted.

What do you guys think ? Would you like to see that ?

I'll go start the poll... :D

Dan
3rd June 2007, 02:25 PM
Gee, I really dont know what to say.... Hmmm. I think I do. Here, let me step in it for you.


"Aw, dang it!

We lost another one, guys ... to Windows no less. If this keeps up, somebody's gonna get fired.

Bob ... you're just going to have to sharpen up those coding skills!"


There. That about cover it? <..:p..>


Dan

Zhillsguy
4th June 2007, 04:56 AM
I can understand Genecks's point and frustration.... I am a new user to Linux, and it is difficult to install third party drivers in Fedora or other distro's, especially if they just 'don't work' following instructions (i.e., config, make, make install) included with them. When you are up against an error (usually simple to the linux experienced) it can be tasking..... how much time should we spend tinkering to get our hardware to work, especially if it is not new, and has been on the market for a while? An hour, day, or week? Doesn't it make sense to install an os or distro that natively supports your 'stuff'?

I absolutely love Fedora's look and feel. I am using FC5 on an older machine for some hobby stuff. However, I have spent a couple of days trying to get my wireless usb (D-Link DWL-G120) or Soundblaster X-Fi Extreme Sound to work in Fedora 7. Yes, I have read the forums, done searches, and tried to install ndiswrapper and the Alsa drivers, with no luck. I have not given up yet. I can appreciate Fedora users loyalty, but I for one condone the end user using whatever software package supports them to USE these little machines for their intended purpose....whether it is with Windoze, Linux, DOS, etc. I have been using DOS/Windoze stuff for almost 15 years.... I remember having to configure Winsock in 3.11 to get on the net. Am I loyal to MS? Absolutely not!

I am, for one, willing to try whatever distro makes my stuff work 'out of the box'....

Just my two cents.

Dan
4th June 2007, 05:29 AM
Evening, Zhillsguy.

Welcome aboard!

I think that was really the point he missed. You nailed it in one. Just use what works for you. The second point he missed was, take complaints and comments to where they will actually do some good. The third point he missed was that we are not responsible for his relative happiness before dealing with him. That's his job.

If he needs to move on, so be it. Let him quit expounding on it trying to ruin everybody elses day, and get with the program of loading up Kubuntu. (A pretty snazzy little distro, by the way ... if you can tolerate KDE.)

Let me illustrate it this way. I don't drive Chevy trucks. Don't like 'em. They don't like me much better. But rather than spend the afternoon down at the Chevy house grousing, whining and crying at the tire mechanic and the night janitor about how and why I dislike them, I just toodled my happy a** over to the Dodge dealer, and bought a car. Go figure. <..:cool:..>


Dan


P.S. And if you can get that D-Link USB adapter thing worked out ... let me know. I've got a DWL-G132 cooling its heels in a desk drawer just waiting for something to do.


D.

w5set
4th June 2007, 05:30 AM
Genecks, you do know why driver and installation cd's are included when you buy most external computer devices don't you? They need them for Win/Mac installs too, but go find a native Linux cd with the drivers available straight from the manufacturer for almost anything.
Personally I think you are beating a dead horse here with your post...to be more fruitful and actually possibly accomplish something, don't post to the devels, go straight to the manufacturers and complain about way less support for Open Source software then is needed.
It might actually help there.
Here you are complaining about proprietary drivers that may well never be included in the basic Fedora release and only found in 3rd party repo's, It will fall on deaf ears at the present time.
In the future the drivers may just well be able to be included with the base install--maybe not..
The very definition of "free" and "open source" is being debated and the basic differences are too--seems there's a opinion from lots of folks on these, But only the Fedora Project opinions count.
But don't apologize or complain about having to use Kubuntu or even Windoze---if it works--use it.
It's called choice, please feel free to exercise your choice of a distro/OS that works for you, I won't complain if you do or slight you if that choice is Windoze.

Seve
4th June 2007, 05:51 AM
I deleted my first post in this thread :D ) ( it would have been post #2 )
Hello:
It think Leigh's deleted post, from what I recalled covered it off very well. :cool:

There is no point spewing things here, as it does no good other than to entice a few flames ...

The developers and or the hardware manufacturers are the one's that need to be aware of one's frustrations. Everyone else already is aware of the issue ..:)


Seve

Dan
4th June 2007, 05:55 AM
Evening, Seve.

I missed Leigh's post. It was gone by the time I got here. Was he up to his usual finesse and form?

Seve
4th June 2007, 06:04 AM
Evening, Seve.

I missed Leigh's post. It was gone by the time I got here. Was he up to his usual finesse and form?
Hello Dan:

Yes, he stated it very well indeed :cool:
He also has a knack for being very succinct in doing so as well :)
Unlike yours truly :D

I can only guess that he blew the post away as he thought it might be Politically Incorrect, however, I don't know for sure :)

Seve

Dan
4th June 2007, 06:09 AM
Ayup! Ok. Thought so.

So, howz trix in the Northland tonight? Getting the bugs chased back into the corners? I was all whizzed up and ready to park F7 on the work laptop ... when I discovered I'd done a default FC6 install on that one. Dang thing has an LVM partition across the whole drive. Grump!

Dan

Seve
4th June 2007, 06:22 AM
Ayup! Ok. Thought so.

So, howz trix in the Northland tonight? Getting the bugs chased back into the corners?

Dan
Hello Dan:

Things are fine :)

I guess this was my turn in the barrel :eek:

F7 and me have not seen eye to eye on some things. The install threw me a curve or two ... three etc. On the positive side, the experience has made me venture into some un-charted waters, which in some ways is good as it adds to the experience. On the other hand, I can only conclude that in a lot of ways there has been a marked regression with anaconda ??

I'm puzzled as to why developers [or any designers / engineers etc.] cannot just improve on something, leaving things that work alone and fix those parts that have been proven to be issues in the past ?
Instead, they want to re-invent the wheel .... :eek:

Seve

Dan
4th June 2007, 06:37 AM
Good to hear that!

Yeah. I think every distro release has its vunderborks. Some are small, some real whoppers, and no two are exactly alike. I consider myself lucky not to have gotten whacked with the ones you've hit. My non-existent technical skills limit my reactions to such things to quiet moans and weeping. <..:p..>


Dan

strikeforce
4th June 2007, 06:42 AM
I gotta laugh when we had the is Fedora 7 better than fedora 6. I said in that thread that I'm waiting for this thread to show up and what do you know it's shown up.

Now I'm waiting for someone to create a thread that says I left Kubuntu/ubuntu (windows) for Fedora.

Then there will be threads saying why doesn't Fedora have propietary codecs in it. I must by psychic or maybe its because every 6 months these threads popup.

**Edit

You'll get the regulars who have seen this thread a million times talk constuctively then you'll see some hot head flame. Then you'll someone respond saying thats why linux is not for the average user etc......

tomcat
4th June 2007, 08:26 AM
Now I'm waiting for someone to create a thread that says I left Kubuntu/ubuntu (windows) for Fedora.I made one some months ago. :D
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=120269&highlight=left+ubuntu+fedora

another one from n0name is here:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=149167&highlight=left+ubuntu+fedora

Demz
4th June 2007, 08:39 AM
Gee, I really dont know what to say....
me neither, made me sad to think i was actually gonna reply to his post

Dan
4th June 2007, 12:35 PM
... I must by psychic or maybe its because every 6 months these threads popup. ... Hmmm.

Ayup! Not bad prognostication. You may well be psychoti ... er ... psychic.

<..:p..>


Dan

JN4OldSchool
4th June 2007, 08:39 PM
well, there were a few times in the last few days that I must admit the thought of a Ubuntu/etch or maybe a zenwalk/etch dual boot popped up. But I know better than that. For every problem there is a solution and coming into a forum complaining how something is just broke and will never work only serves to make you look like a fool. If someone else has made it work then you can too! And if it works in Ubuntu it will also work in Fedora. If a person isnt willing to make the effort to get it sorted then cool, they have that right. If they feel Ubuntu is a better product then this is great also. FC4 was like a greased goose. FC5 had a few "hmmm" moments. FC6 was great for me but the i586 kernel hit some hard. F7 was a bit more challenging due to my setup now and how I prefer to do things. But it works fine. Y'all do what you want, I am sticking with my first love a bit longer! :)

paul matthijsse
4th June 2007, 09:13 PM
I can understand Genecks's point and frustration.... I am a new user to Linux, and it is difficult to install third party drivers in Fedora or other distro's, especially if they just 'don't work' following instructions (i.e., config, make, make install) included with them.Hello, may I suggest to take a look at Ubuntu 7, aka. Feisty Fawn? This is imo by far the easiest distro to start with Linux. Excellent hardware recognition, most stuff works (nearly) out of the box. After some while you'll encounter perhaps some limitations, and that might be a good moment to get your feet wet wit a more "difficult" distro like Fedora.

Don't feel frustrated, Linux is, for first time users, not exactly an easy go. You'll have to learn some things...

Paul.

bob
4th June 2007, 09:16 PM
Yes, Feisty is an excellent choice for those just getting their feet wet. Be sure to look up Automatix if you do go for Feisty. It handles setting up just about everything you'll want. Even if it isn't for everyone, that combination shows just how far linux has come in a few short years.

JN4OldSchool
4th June 2007, 09:22 PM
Bob, I mentioned this before but I have set up two feisty installs now and the ONLY time I had to touch a command line thus far was doing a gedit in one xorg.conf due to a res problem. Both installs are pumping along just fine and my 18 year old has now become a buntu fan leaving FC6 for it. Ironically, he just didnt like etch for some reason. Claimed he "knew" Fedora and didnt want to change. Gave him the buntu live and next I knew he was installing it!

sailor
4th June 2007, 09:27 PM
I don't believe his usb netgear worked right away with kubuntu...I believe his usb wifi requires ndiswapper....
If it had been compatiple with madwifi that could be true.
But still that is never going to be the case with Fedora simply because of licensing issues...


Anyway, I dumped Fedora a long time ago.
A fair question is "why are you still here complaining?" Move on find another distro that does work for you".

when I could be studying protein folding, molecular construction of biological components, and so much more.
You should be able to figure out how to setup your computer, which I am very sure is much easier that studying proteins, molecular const and such :)

Of course, in the end, I've dumped all OSs for Windows,
Keep a linux rescue disc handy ...you may need it when your Windows crashes taking all your scientific data with it .

And one final thought:

"to those who have more money than time. It's simple economics.
"...."studying protein folding, molecular construction of biological components, and so much more."
sooo... I guess your really saying you are too rich and too smart to run linux...:p..well being rich is certainly gonna be necessary for you.


BTW guys thanks for not totally flaming this guy to death...in the future, I think we should simply just say 'buh bye"...

oh yeah, leigh, I read your post and though it was pretty much right on target, we are trying to be a kinder/gentler forum...thanks for deleting :p

bob
5th June 2007, 12:20 AM
Just a note of interest. My younger son has kidded me about my love of linux for years now, while he has kept his loyalty to Windows. Yesterday, I had to access his email addy from my system and delete 326 messages, some of which were trojans and viruses so bad that just having them in his preview pane caused a full system failure and blue screen on each boot. Naturally, they had no effect on me. Today, at his request, I mailed him two Live CD's to see which he'll choose to replace Windows. It's a shame that he's spent several hundred dollars over the last year or two on programs and tools to secure his system but perhaps there's some Windows users still on ebay...

PTP
5th June 2007, 01:42 AM
Just wanted to chime in as I have been going to something similar.

I have not completely left fedora/linux just yet but I am pretty close.
I am new to linux/fedora and I successfully installed FC6 a month ago. However, I couldnt get the wireless working for 2+ weeks. I have a dell e1705 w/ the dell wireless 1500 draft 802.11n wlan mini-card and have had NO luck w/ it at all.
I just dont have anymore time to spend trying to get this to work. I just installed Vista (it came w/ the notebook for free) and everything is working like a charm, w/ NO effort.

I still really want to use fedora. I like the way it looks and all but I just cant spend anymore time on this wireless issue.
Just my two cents, but all this is a really big turn off. Ya I am sure this is not even an issue for a lot of people here to have been using this for years or have programming experience; but, you can't expect an OS to require those kinda pre-requisites if its going to targeted to the general public.
I have heard ubuntu might offer better wireless support "out of the box" supposedly? That might be my last ditch effort to use linux.
peace

JN4OldSchool
5th June 2007, 01:56 AM
Just wanted to chime in as I have been going to something similar.

I have not completely left fedora/linux just yet but I am pretty close.
I am new to linux/fedora and I successfully installed FC6 a month ago. However, I couldnt get the wireless working for 2+ weeks. I have a dell e1705 w/ the dell wireless 1500 draft 802.11n wlan mini-card and have had NO luck w/ it at all.
I just dont have anymore time to spend trying to get this to work. I just installed Vista (it came w/ the notebook for free) and everything is working like a charm, w/ NO effort.

I still really want to use fedora. I like the way it looks and all but I just cant spend anymore time on this wireless issue.
Just my two cents, but all this is a really big turn off. Ya I am sure this is not even an issue for a lot of people here to have been using this for years or have programming experience; but, you can't expect an OS to require those kinda pre-requisites if its going to targeted to the general public.
I have heard ubuntu might offer better wireless support "out of the box" supposedly? That might be my last ditch effort to use linux.
peace

But partner, this is where you have it all wrong. Now, dont get mad at me, but who says Linux is "targeted" at anyone? Oh, some fools out there actively persue getting Linux on everyone's desktop, but most of us really dont care. It is what it is. Like my sig says, Linux is a mindset, you either get it or you dont. Like riding motorcycles. Some people just dont get it. Thats cool. They have my blessing when they drive away in their Ford. What you are essentially trying to say here is "if Linux wants to become successful then it needs to ___" Linux IS successful. No one makes any money off these home desktops, this is all free. The OS itself is free as in if you want to open it up and tinker with it you can. YOU get to choose how you want YOUR computer to work, you dont have to bow to MS. But you say you like Vista! Great! Then use it and be happy! I dont care. I think Linux is tons better than Windows, do you care? Linux is like a dollar bill on a sidewalk, you can keep on walking, no harm done.

PTP
5th June 2007, 01:57 AM
You should be able to figure out how to setup your computer, which I am very sure is much easier that studying proteins, molecular const and such :)



In all fairness I have say I kinda agree KINDA w/ the OP.
I too am in the health field. I have delivered babies, operated on people, treated MVA traumas and stitched up major lacerations BUT I cant get my freaking wireless working w/ fedora!!! - maybe thats why I went into medicine :)
I dont mention all this because I think I am "smart" or anything. I think I am the average joe; but, I do think I have the ability to learn new things. So if I cant get wireless activity in 2+weeks then its just not for the average person. I just dont think you should have to use wrappers or cutters etc... to get this to work.

PTP
5th June 2007, 02:31 AM
But partner, this is where you have it all wrong. Now, dont get mad at me, but who says Linux is "targeted" at anyone? Oh, some fools out there actively persue getting Linux on everyone's desktop, but most of us really dont care. It is what it is. Like my sig says, Linux is a mindset, you either get it or you dont. Like riding motorcycles. Some people just dont get it. Thats cool. They have my blessing when they drive away in their Ford. What you are essentially trying to say here is "if Linux wants to become successful then it needs to ___" Linux IS successful. No one makes any money off these home desktops, this is all free. The OS itself is free as in if you want to open it up and tinker with it you can. YOU get to choose how you want YOUR computer to work, you dont have to bow to MS. But you say you like Vista! Great! Then use it and be happy! I dont care. I think Linux is tons better than Windows, do you care? Linux is like a dollar bill on a sidewalk, you can keep on walking, no harm done.


Well I see your point and dont disagree w/ much of what you say. I am by no means anti-linux or pro-windows (or vice-versa).
I also dont think success is totally equated w/ sales numbers. I whole hearted agree that linux is successful and I never indicated it wasnt.
But let me quote something from the project Fedora page.

"The goal of Fedora is the rapid progress of free and open source software and content. Public forums. Open processes. Rapid innovation. Meritocracy and transparency. All in pursuit of the best operating system and platform that free software can provide."
"Spread the good word of Fedora. Spread the glamor. Spread the action. Make waves. Encourage participation. Encourage the community.

"Dont forget to collect feedback and listen to users. Give a good critique, or hear the good critiques of others. Tell us what works and what doesn't. Help us improve the project and gain even more Fedora users."

I am simply trying to express what seems to be a common issue and source of frustration w/ fedora. I think it benefits the linux community if these concerns are expressed and eventually addressed.

JN4OldSchool
5th June 2007, 02:48 AM
well sure, of course we are trying to make things easier all the time. I got onboard the Linux train only 4 short years ago. The learning curve I faced was much steeper. One distro in 5 might actually install right unless you knew enough to force it. I can only imagine what things were like in the mid-late 90's. Manually mounting everything, everything installed from source, write your own drivers. Linux has come lightyears in that short timespan!

There is a reason for your wireless woes. Do you know the reason? Check into the Fedora philosophy about closed source software. This is just the way it is. It isnt likely to change anytime soon. I'll be honest, I have never fought the wireless battle and as experienced as i feel I now am I wouldnt want to have to fight it. Not many of us are rocket scientists, I work in construction as a trade. Oh, I have always had a geeky side, I was tinkering with computers since the early 80's. But nothing formal. The point is it is doable, you just got to want to do it. The first time is a bear, but after that it gets easier. And this is my whole point. Linux is about personal choice and commitment. It will take some time and energy to learn how to do it right. GUI tools and automatic everything is all well and fine till you need to understand what is going on to fix something. When I first got involved in Linux I was like most, I was going to turn the world on to this great OS. Truth is most dont care, they dont want to know. They just want to use their computer, they dont want to know how it works. Now I am almost antievangelical about the whole thing. I hate to see people get misconceptions about what Linux is and should be.

In all seriousness, have you tried Ubuntu? I use it on two computers and it is as easy as it gets. almost no command line, everything is laid out in the menus and it has a great record with wireless. Give it a shot, worse case you dont like it.

sailor
5th June 2007, 03:42 AM
PTP...fair enough :p well I know you are smart now ;)
It took me a couple weeks to figure out my wifi :) but I expect some configuring and I enjoy learning the OS,..it is a challenge but always rewarding.

ihavenoname
5th June 2007, 08:52 AM
Ok, let's get one thing straight. There is a difference between the chemical/biological sciences and computer sciences. You can be GREAT in on and sub-par in the other w/o being labeled as "stupid" or losing your "smart" label. This is why everyone has their own interests/skills.


Fedora, believe it or not is more of a Power user distro. Though it's now moving more towards improving it's desktop usability it is not going to improve by leaps and bounds in the areas of wifi drivers or codecs so long as the companies behind those products are not releasing source code. Fedora is Open Source and that's final. Quiet frankly I don't think you should be choosing Fedora as your first linux distro, especially if your not computer savvy. Don't feel bad, everyone has to start from the bottom.

Drop your Windows mind-set, your not just USING the OS to do OTHER things. In other words your are actually going to have to interact with the OS to get it to do things the way you want, At first it's a lot of work but once you get the hang of it the OS will fit your MUCH better than a Generic Proprietary OS with a One-Size-Fits-ALL push. OPEN YOUR MINDS, it's just like the Matrix.


Don't choose your OS because it's "pretty" you can EASILY change wallpapers, gdm screens, etc. Choose it because it is comfortable to use, well designed and stable.

Most people here are Fedora users, or have some loyalty to Fedora. So when you come here insulting their favorite toy, they won't take it nicely. If you have constructive things to say, that's fine. But if your posting because you think your one post about what Fedora needs to do is going to make a difference, when all it consists of is complaints about what DOES NOT work, your wrong. IF you had provided some nice code, then maybe it would be a different story, if you had posted a feature request to the proper site and decided to inform us so you could garner support, maybe it would be a different story. The bottom line is no one here is making or losing money based on whether or not you use Fedora. If you use it, GREAT then there is one thing we have in common and we would LOVE to talk to you about it. If you used it, respected it for it's technical accomplishments, but found it lacking in areas that you put special emphasis on GREAT let's talk about those aspects, maybe someone here can remedy some of those. However if you tested it, were disappointed then decided that there was something better and wanted to inform us of our loss, then sorry but no one cares. Do you really think that no one here has heard of Ubuntu or Kubuntu or Debian? We have, and they are wonderful and a lot of people use them and their recommendations would be valid IN THE PROPER SECTIONS OF THE FORUM.

This is a rather moot thread, and could be summed up in a few words "I tried Fedora it didn't really work for me, then I tried Kubuntu and it worked better Fedora, but then I went to windows because it worked best of all".

Finally, (to all people who post goodbye threads) thanks for coming. Though your presence here was largely unfelt and your contributions were largely ineffective, we will miss your complaints. However your parting is such a sad event I think we should delay the Fedora 8 release until we convince you to return.

BOTTOM LINE: Use what you want it DOES NOT MATTER TO OTHERS, Saying goodbye when you haven't been really very active or prominent is a waste.


NOTE TO <insert name of person unhappy with my post>: This is more against goodbye threads and anti-fedora threads, not necessarily this PARTICULAR post, though it applies to some of the sentiment articulated in this thread. The fact is there are an estimated 2 million systems with Fedora, an extra hundred here or there doesn't matter, and if your using another linux distro then heck that just means you like how it's customized better, but that's none of our business.

Coolerthanyou
5th June 2007, 11:42 AM
haw haw. Oh boy, people love their drama...

But I don't get how people claim to not have much time take time out of their busy day to make several posts on a forum based on a distro they left long ago to make complaints. Then again it could just be trolling.

Dan
5th June 2007, 01:29 PM
Well, Cooler,

I think it's pretty much the same thing emotionally as slapping the monitor "upside the head" because something in the software isn't bowing to one's will. Except in this case, the source of frustration cannot be reached, so they decide to come take a poke at the "fedora people" to expunge their anomie, anger and frustration. Whether or not anyone here deserves that kind of treatment is purely secondary to their need to express their angst, by slapping something, or somebody, around.

The interesting part of all this, however, is reading all the creative ways folks here can come up with to tell a poster with anger management issues to either buck up, grow up, or get lost -- or all of those.

It's a pretty common failing among people. That's why I know exactly how far a 9/16 chrome vanadium combination wrench will bounce when thrown against a concrete shop floor. (Answer: As far as it takes to reach the most expensive and/or irreplacable breakable item in the building. <..:p..> )


Dan

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 12:26 AM
"Don't choose your OS because it's "pretty" you can EASILY change wallpapers, gdm screens, etc. Choose it because it is comfortable to use, well designed and stable."

damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....its because in other OS it takes 1 minute to install nvidia drivers and here I'm in one week with help from this forum and no good.....1 minute on XP...without init 3 or init5 or init 5000000!!! damn ...I'm really upset ...
can you people make Linux for the average user ??!!.....I would like to see linux replacing all microsoft OS....but you guys are not professional enough to see that you still make Linux for computer engrs. only. THINK GLOBAL!!
damn Linux engrs....I'm so upset with this fedora crashes/incompatibilities/nvidia problems...it reminds me Windows 95 ...1 "crash/problem" per week!!!! ...that means you guys are 13 years in retard regarding microsoft!!

dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnn

cheers you all ..its good to take it outside :)

Dies
20th June 2007, 12:44 AM
"Don't choose your OS because it's "pretty" you can EASILY change wallpapers, gdm screens, etc. Choose it because it is comfortable to use, well designed and stable."

damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....its because in other OS it takes 1 minute to install nvidia drivers and here I'm in one week with help from this forum and no good.....1 minute on XP...without init 3 or init5 or init 5000000!!! damn ...I'm really upset ...
can you people make Linux for the average user ??!!.....I would like to see linux replacing all microsoft OS....but you guys are not professional enough to see that you still make Linux for computer engrs. only. THINK GLOBAL!!
damn Linux engrs....I'm so upset with this fedora crashes/incompatibilities/nvidia problems...it reminds me Windows 95 ...1 "crash/problem" per week!!!! ...that means you guys are 13 years in retard regarding microsoft!!

dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnn

cheers you all ..its good to take it outside :)


What do you mean you guys are not professional enough? What are you talking about?

We are just users, just like you.

I think you need to join the developers mailing list and give them a piece of your mind, I mean really let them have it, don't hold back, tell them how you really feel about their work.

But you might want to leave out the part about it taking you a week to try to install Nvidia drivers without success............ ;)

Just saying........

bob
20th June 2007, 12:50 AM
This is not a beginner distro, but one designed to test 'cutting edge' packages. If you'd like something very easy to configure, then certainly I'd recommend PCLinuxOS, Linspire, Mandriva, Ubuntu or Mepis. Also, keep in mind that linux is trying set up and work drivers for products designed to work with Windows. As to 'not professional enough', how about pitching in your free time and get the education to help make a change or two? It isn't always the 'other guy' who has to change, you know.

bob
20th June 2007, 12:57 AM
BTW, not that it matters, I'm in my 60's and have had no courses in coding, linux or computer skills. I've handled FC-2 through Fedora7 and maybe a hundred other distros and somehow stumbled through it all with the help of other members and Google. What I've learned: Humility, Patience and Appreciation for how much others are contributing to Open Source. That's contributions by people who still have to go out and earn a living for their families but find time to contribute to Open Source for nada, squat, zero bucks. God bless 'em all.

Dan
20th June 2007, 01:43 AM
Hmmm.

Well said, Bob.

tw2113
20th June 2007, 03:05 AM
Plus Bob became an administrator here. That takes talent

bob
20th June 2007, 03:23 AM
Nah, I paid $50 under the table... :D

Wayne
20th June 2007, 03:41 AM
Umm, these kinds of threads are really pointless. None of us here are developers working on Fedora but just (satisfied) users. If you have a complaint then send it to the developers, if you want help, the VOLUNTEERS here will do their best to help. In some cases they might not be able to help, perhaps because the maker of the device you're trying to get to work refuse to release the specs for the community to create a driver and are forced to use a workaround to get it to work (sometimes only partly or using some kind of wrapper) If you prefer to use another distro then go ahead and use it, if you prefer to use windows then the same holds true. At the end of the day no one is trying to promote Linux to overtake windows but are offering the user a choice. You either make that choice or you don't. No one really cares what you use just as they don't care what car you drive or what food you eat.

Wayne

Lopov
20th June 2007, 06:40 AM
I left Fedora when it was in version 5. I did this because it just wasn't working with my wireless. I'm sure when people start making sure wireless works for their OS, then people will start to accept those OSs. Other than that, I'm back to try Fedora Core 7 to play with it. However, I'll have to say I'm more reliant on the operating system that gives me instant Internet access: Kubuntu. I've spent weeks trying to figure out how to setup Internet access before with my broadcom, and I don't know if all of you go into congitivie dissonance about this, but an operating system isn't good enough if it can't supply to a person's needs.

I don't think Fedora Core 7 is going to supply these needs. And to tell you the truth, I don't know why those who released it haven't understood that they need to work on making sure wireless works on their operating system. Instead of setting up things myself, why don't programmers and others simply embed this stuff already into Fedora Core? I don't get it. Copyright problems? It's open-source. Any person working on the project could indepently breakoff and simply create stuff for Fedora Core 7.

Anyway, I dumped Fedora a long time ago. If Kubuntu offers me Internet, I'm glad, because I don't like wasting time to figure out things when I could be studying protein folding, molecular construction of biological components, and so much more. Of course, in the end, I've dumped all OSs for Windows, because it ultimately provides to those who have more money than time. It's simple economics.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. :cool:

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 07:13 AM
SORRY SORRY...please don't send me in a cage to the space!!! ....man I had to say it to someone, and you were the first topic I sow were I could dump that ...ahhahahahah....

regarding the one week for nvidia...I have 3 machines ...the one with fedora 7 is a crap to install nvidia ...(xen kernel and latest 3228) but on fedora 6 was very fast ...still ....just one last thing maybe linux people here are not aware....I still run 3 machines with XP ...for the last 6 years NO CRASHES.....XP only crashes in the ends of Linux users and blondes!!! HAHAHHAHAHAH

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 07:17 AM
OK ..you guys are volunteers ...I bounce to you ....keep up the "good" work ..... :cool:

pete_1967
20th June 2007, 10:02 AM
SORRY SORRY...please don't send me in a cage to the space!!! ....man I had to say it to someone, and you were the first topic I sow were I could dump that ...ahhahahahah....

regarding the one week for nvidia...I have 3 machines ...the one with fedora 7 is a crap to install nvidia ...(xen kernel and latest 3228) but on fedora 6 was very fast ...still ....just one last thing maybe linux people here are not aware....I still run 3 machines with XP ...for the last 6 years NO CRASHES.....XP only crashes in the ends of Linux users and blondes!!! HAHAHHAHAHAH

Good for you!

What are you still doing wasting your time with Linux then?

bob
20th June 2007, 12:47 PM
PP, glad to hear that XP is working well for you. Fedora's working great for me, but then again, I'm hard-wired to my router and had nothing but problems when we did try wireless; not due to linux but because my wife's XP machine kept dropping connections while she was playing cards online. You do NOT want to be around a gal who had a winning hand but was booted from her table due to lost connections!

On the plus side for XP, her machine has been relatively virus-free and no blue screens for many years, however my son's XP has been blue-screening for weeks due to a bulk spam/virus attack that loads hundreds of emails before he can block them. He now uses a Ubuntu Live CD to delete all mail before booting XP. Because he has my genes, he stubbornly refuses to change email addys to solve the problem. Once again, a generation of Agel's passes without a Mensa candidate. :D

So, we all use what works for us and keeps us happy. One thing in linux's corner is that there are hundreds of distros and even with quirks in your hardware that may make Fedora difficult, other distros will probably handle them well.

JN4OldSchool
20th June 2007, 01:12 PM
SORRY SORRY...please don't send me in a cage to the space!!! ....man I had to say it to someone, and you were the first topic I sow were I could dump that ...ahhahahahah....

regarding the one week for nvidia...I have 3 machines ...the one with fedora 7 is a crap to install nvidia ...(xen kernel and latest 3228) but on fedora 6 was very fast ...still ....just one last thing maybe linux people here are not aware....I still run 3 machines with XP ...for the last 6 years NO CRASHES.....XP only crashes in the ends of Linux users and blondes!!! HAHAHHAHAHAH

Hmmm...read your first post and was going to write you an encouraging post back. We have mostly all been there, I used to consider myself an intermediate to advanced XP user. I never had a crash, virus or any other problems either. And I put about 1 hour a week into making sure it stayed that way. You are looking at "Linux vs. Windows" all wrong. In fact, judging by this post you are just trying to incite a MS vs Linux flame job. Good luck, most of us really dont care. Linux is the best, Windows is crap. Period. Most of us here will agree with that. If you dont then cool. Maybe we are all wrong or maybe you are missing something. Either way, my day goes on. I wont bash XP, it is what it is the same as Linux is. I hate MS for business reasons, but XP is a usable OS. I have never tried Vista and dont intend to. Use what you like, but if I were you I would do a little research into the goals of Linux, the differences between the different distros and the philosophy of Fedora before I kept making a fool out of myself. ........On second thought, judging by this post here It doesnt matter much to you anyway....carry on...

Dan
20th June 2007, 01:26 PM
Well, Bob,

I think it was $50.00 well spent. But I'd be willing to wager a quarter that every now and again, for just a few seconds, your knuckles turn white. Especially the ones wrapped around the baseball bat behind your back!


pp_muscimol: It sounds like Windows XP and you are a perfect fit for each other. Enjoy it! And use it in good health.


Dan

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 01:51 PM
Man ....you so sensitive ....LOL..as I told I bounce to all you ...I was just discharging the problems with nvidia ....keep up the good work ..you guys are great ....
by the way ...I introduced Linux in 3 machines and I'm trying to stop using XP ...but you see
if time=money ....linux becomes very expensive :)





cheer up man ....don't care if someone comes here once a while to "spank" on fedora ...maybe is good for the Linux community to try to reach a broader % of the population making things more user friendly ...the more people uses Linux ..the less they will care for microsoft. So cut the "bs" of trying labelling people intelligence according to the OS they use!!!

TangleWeb ...if you knew what I do for living you would not make such comments .... :cool:

again ...keep up the good work ..at least there is a lot of people in this foruns that would people like me. :p

Dan
20th June 2007, 02:13 PM
... TangleWeb ...if you knew what I do for living you would not make such comments .... :cool: Well, pp, you have me at somewhat of a loss. I'm having a hard time understanding how wishing you good health and happiness is a bad thing. I was quite serious. I tend to be very pragmatic on the Operating System issue. Use what works best. If your driver issue is fixed by XP, then use it. This entire "competition" thinking is fun to indulge in, but basically erroneous.

You are quite right that time = money. Therefore, if you can save a week's productivity by just using XP, as they say ... do the math!
<..:p..>


Dan

JN4OldSchool
20th June 2007, 02:30 PM
eh, he is too busy "bouncing to you" whatever the heck that is supposed to mean...:D

Dan
20th June 2007, 02:47 PM
Not sure either.

Although, many years ago, for extra spending cash, I did some bouncing of gate crashers at parties, get togethers, staff meetings and whatnot. Somehow I don't think that's quite what he's refering to though.


Dan

pete_1967
20th June 2007, 02:53 PM
...but you see
if time=money ....linux becomes very expensive :)


Here's a challenge for you:

Every time you need to reboot Windows, or it becomes unusable for any reason, time it record it. At the end of the year, add all times up and compare the time used 'productively' waiting for Windows to be usable (include installing drivers etc).
Compare that to time it takes to get nVidia drivers working (approx 5 minutes of which 2 mins to add Livna to Yum repos, 2 minutes to install kmod-nvidia and 1 minute to log off and on again). For fairness sake, lets add approx 7 kernel updates that require reboot, each about 5 mins, so 35+20 mins to reinstall Livna dirvers.

Come back in June 2008 and let us know how long you were unable to use your Windows box due reasons above.






...maybe is good for the Linux community to try to reach a broader % of the population making things more user friendly ...the more people uses Linux ..the less they will care for microsoft. So cut the "bs" of trying labelling people intelligence according to the OS they use!!!


Well, you see, there's one requirement Linux has that Windows doesn't: user's IQ has to be higher than their shoe-size.

JN4OldSchool
20th June 2007, 02:57 PM
Ahh, just leave the kid be, he is busy bouncing around and discharging and spanking his fedora disc. I guess he just isnt hip to our jive daddy-o...

strikeforce
20th June 2007, 03:01 PM
/me gets the popcorn

This was getting good I'm glad I've kept an eye on this.

Wayne
20th June 2007, 03:11 PM
/me gets the popcorn

This was getting good I'm glad I've kept an eye on this.

While you're about it, nip up/down to Fremantle and pick up a couple of decent brews!

Wayne

strikeforce
20th June 2007, 03:17 PM
Thats on the cards tomorrow night after my exam. Definately going to feel it on Friday.

Wayne
20th June 2007, 03:26 PM
Thats on the cards tomorrow night after my exam. Definately going to feel it on Friday.

Little Creatures pale ale is one brew I would love to get my gums around! I've heard lots of good things about it!

Wayne

strikeforce
20th June 2007, 03:33 PM
Yep its a brilliant place to go. Have some food and some nice home brew's like that.

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 03:56 PM
Bahhh....I don't know why you need to restart XP so many times...maybe its the bloond effect on you :)

....anyway ....if you so fast and smart please tell me how to install nvidia in a xen kernel in a dual screen environment with Beryl working ...
hummmm...;I'm starting counting the minutes till you give me ...maybe you have a foot to big for that one ...hein :)

pete_1967
20th June 2007, 04:08 PM
Bahhh....I don't know why you need to restart XP so many times...maybe its the bloond effect on you :)

I haven't used Windows for years so can't be anymore. Why don't you ask Microsoft the reason for that, my Windows using colleagues at work and our MS sysadmins have given up wondering why long time ago.



....anyway ....if you so fast and smart please tell me how to install nvidia in a xen kernel in a dual screen environment with Beryl working ...

Never helped pricks and ain't going to start now.

...hmmm... uuuuhhh.... oooohhh...

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 04:17 PM
"I haven't used Windows for years so can't be anymore. Why don't you ask Microsoft the reason for that, my Windows using colleagues at work and our MS sysadmins have given up wondering why long time ago."
good for you ....but anyway I can tell both XP and fedora boot in about same time !!!

"Never helped pricks and ain't going to start now."

...hmmm... uuuuhhh.... oooohhh...


....sorry for asking ...but by the way ..;nobody called you names :::: maybe you too old for this ...or maybe to young...but don't challenge other people if you are not up to!

"Here's a challenge for you:".....bahhh...go challenge someone in your field! ....child!!

giulix
20th June 2007, 04:21 PM
Isn't this gravedigging ? Or just plain trolling ?

<:D....Waiting for the axe to fall ....:D>

JN4OldSchool
20th June 2007, 04:24 PM
just bouncing and discharging in preperation of being spanked. Wait, shouldnt you discharge after the spanking? :D

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 04:35 PM
Man...why he's taking so much time to make his move!!!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... attack boby ...attack ..:)

pete_1967
20th June 2007, 04:35 PM
Isn't this gravedigging ? Or just plain trolling ?

<:D....Waiting for the axe to fall ....:D>
I'm pretty sure MS is paying these kids few bucks to go trolling on Linux forums just like they're paying for people to modify Wikipedia entries.


Above actually brings back memories when they tried to stop us listing anti-MS sites in DMOZ during late 90s and early this century. Their lawyers kept sending cease and desist letters in vain attempt to try to scare the project from listing anything that had content critisising MS.

pp_muscimol
20th June 2007, 04:50 PM
HHAHHAHAHHA...I was not sure you were tha old.....now ..no one is paying me.....but this was fun..;anice way to relax out ....now I'm good for the pub .......I would pay you a nice beer jus for the fun of it ....but maybe at your age a glass of milk is better ....MHUAHAHAMAHAHHAHA ...just kiding man ...I'm 44 already.
bye :D

giulix
20th June 2007, 05:02 PM
Sometimes i wish Americans didn't have so much respect for their famous First Amendment :rolleyes:

Mat
20th June 2007, 05:10 PM
That's enough guys

bob
20th June 2007, 05:29 PM
Absolutely agree, Mat. We've crossed over the line a bit here and I'm glad to see that 99% was in good taste and friendly. Let's keep it 100%. BTW, enjoy the brew. The sun's crossed the yardarm and it's that time here too.