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Modarm
7th April 2007, 03:35 AM
Hi everyone, I have setup Fedora6 and had a good look it is certainly the best looking yet. BUT it is simply never going to compete with Microsoft as main stream or functional for the masses as it is far to difficult to work with. A simple example is go buy some AV software from any vendor for Win XP and it is simple to install, a complete novice can install and the application just works (everything is consistent start menu's shortcuts etc) - try this with Fedora or any Linux. The simple truth is the brains behind Fedora are brilliant but have little or no commercial understanding. People want ther computers to be as simple as their video machine in the lounge.
If Fedora and RedHat can ever jsut work on simplifacation drop all the crappie bits which are fustrating and cumbersom to install and work on real functionality then you would be able to beat the brilliance of Microsoft - ease of use.
:)

bob
7th April 2007, 04:46 AM
It would appear you're trolling for a fight here. Frankly, most of us are sick of such baiting and not interested in a war of words. Suffice it to say that I've just set up my daughter's XP box with enough protections to keep her away from the nasties. That involved a couple of hours, so I'm a bit tired right now.

There are plenty of distros out there that have all the codecs built in and would handle anything you need. Fedora believes in FOSS and will never include those codecs. And, Fedora is not interested in "commercial", just in producing a first class system that satisfies it's users.

So, why not grab your money, your MS install discs, your AV software, Anti-spam software, commercial software and spend the remainder of the evening searching the internet for updates for everything you've installed. Have fun and don't let the screen door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

ppesci
7th April 2007, 06:44 AM
I do not use windows fron 1998. And yes, windows has its pros but security, stability, reliability, control and scalability problems are too anoying to me for use it.

In Linux, you install things once and run mostly without problems. Some times is harder to install, that's ok,but..... How many times have I seen reisntall windows because some ___________ ?(fill the line with whatever you want). Give me 1 cent for each time, and I'll be rich.

Linux is designed to do the work, not to win a beauty prize, but if someone here want to have a beauty, consistent, reliable (but non free OS), much better than windows, try MacOS X. Is a way better than windows in all respects except for games.

The reason because ppl is not switching from windows to linux is fear and ignorance. If the reason was beauty or easy to use, they had migrating to MacOS years ago.

Modarm
7th April 2007, 11:31 PM
It would appear you're trolling for a fight here. Frankly, most of us are sick of such baiting and not interested in a war of words. Suffice it to say that I've just set up my daughter's XP box with enough protections to keep her away from the nasties. That involved a couple of hours, so I'm a bit tired right now.

There are plenty of distros out there that have all the codecs built in and would handle anything you need. Fedora believes in FOSS and will never include those codecs. And, Fedora is not interested in "commercial", just in producing a first class system that satisfies it's users.

So, why not grab your money, your MS install discs, your AV software, Anti-spam software, commercial software and spend the remainder of the evening searching the internet for updates for everything you've installed. Have fun and don't let the screen door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.
I would be the first to agree with any MS OS AV SWare is very important! MS is the leading OS of choice and therefore tends to be the center or attacks, that said I think it would be true to say all the various OS's need to have AV installed. As for a fight definitely not but a discussion is always welcome. Telling someone to go away is hardly productive in exploring the issue that Linux is more complex to install software compared to MS and that is my point.

Thank you for your reply.

Modarm
7th April 2007, 11:45 PM
I do not use windows fron 1998. And yes, windows has its pros but security, stability, reliability, control and scalability problems are too anoying to me for use it.

In Linux, you install things once and run mostly without problems. Some times is harder to install, that's ok,but..... How many times have I seen reisntall windows because some ___________ ?(fill the line with whatever you want). Give me 1 cent for each time, and I'll be rich.

Linux is designed to do the work, not to win a beauty prize, but if someone here want to have a beauty, consistent, reliable (but non free OS), much better than windows, try MacOS X. Is a way better than windows in all respects except for games.

The reason because ppl is not switching from windows to linux is fear and ignorance. If the reason was beauty or easy to use, they had migrating to MacOS years ago.
MS has come a long way since "98" as have all OS technologies. I would be the first to agree Linux is renowed for its stability but I was discussing its ease of use which is a different subject. Mac's are very good systems and the graphic's industry rely heavily on them. As for the comment "fear and ignorance" I would tend not to agree as users make a decession based on a lot of perameters and that is not a major concern nor is price obviously as MS and Mac are very expensive when compared to Linux (Fedora). Fedora is free but its real cost is in setting it up and getting it to work and learning to get various applications to work. I am pleased to say RedHat - Fedora has come along way to simplifing installations but there is far to much confusion.

JN4OldSchool
7th April 2007, 11:55 PM
modarm, you are full of it. With MS you have to run to the store and buy something, go through one of many install routines and pray to God it doesnt install a ton of adware which most MS programs do. Or, you need to surf the web till you find what you want and download it hoping it is virus free and wont screw anything up. Then hope it has an install icon because you are an idiot and cant install otherwise. Or...In Fedora you click Yumex and presto. Thats it, chose what you want to install and click process. Boom. Done. What's the problem bud? OK, sure, it might be a little harder to compile something from source, in 4 years now I have HAD to do it what, maybe 3 times? And that isnt even so hard. A couple simple commands, just follow the directions in the readme. Hey, if you are too stupid to run Linux that is your problem, as Bob said, take a hike. This isnt a competition, no one is making any money. Linux is free, use at your own risk. What dont you get?

edit: and ppesci, what do you mean MS is better looking? How? MS is playschool, even Vista is crap. Try this with Windows:

Dan
8th April 2007, 12:11 AM
Awright Bob! <.. :D ..>



Dan

JN4OldSchool
8th April 2007, 12:39 AM
Hi everyone, I have setup Fedora6 and had a good look it is certainly the best looking yet. BUT it is simply never going to compete with Microsoft as main stream or functional for the masses as it is far to difficult to work with.

I'm bored, it is getting dark, family is still away so why not pick this apart some more. First point, why do you think the developers of Fedora even WANT to compete with Microsoft? This right there shows your noobness, at least to Linux. You Windows fanboys seriously think any of us really care what OS the next person uses? Windows is a decent enough OS, I used it for years. I think Linux is much better, especially since I learned how to use it. But...that is just MY opinion. You wont find me in Windows forums telling everyone how much better Fedora or Linux is. What a collusal waste of time. Second point, with over 2 million actual users, not downloads but actual installs, I tend to think that Fedora is fairly mainstream and functional for the masses. Third point, you are completly wrong that it is difficult to work with. In fact, it is much EASIER to work with than Windows! Set it and forget it, you dont need to do anything! I am the complete master of my OS, it does what I want it to not the other way around. Now, what you probably mean is that it is harder to learn to use than Windows. I will argue that also. I have a 17 year old who learned how to use Linux and Windows side by side. He started out with 0 knowledge and learned both OSs at the same time. He will argue with you that Linux is much easier to learn. It really makes much more sense, things are very intuitive, unless of course you are used to doing it Microsofts way.


A simple example is go buy some AV software from any vendor for Win XP and it is simple to install, a complete novice can install and the application just works (everything is consistent start menu's shortcuts etc) - try this with Fedora or any Linux.

Why? You dont NEED AV with Linux! I dont run any at all, never have! OK, if you have a Windows box you network with then you probably should. "yum install clamav" Big whoop. Better yet, just fire up yumex and install all the clam stuff. How easy can it be?


The simple truth is the brains behind Fedora are brilliant but have little or no commercial understanding. People want ther computers to be as simple as their video machine in the lounge.
If Fedora and RedHat can ever jsut work on simplifacation drop all the crappie bits which are fustrating and cumbersom to install and work on real functionality then you would be able to beat the brilliance of Microsoft - ease of use.
:)

Fedora is NOT a commercial product. This is where you are initially going wrong, then you just keep heading south with your total lack of understanding of what Linux is. As stated above, my computer is every bit as easy and functional and stable as my kids XBox or PS2. You cant say that about Windows as you are doing defrags, virus scans, anti-adware scans and the rest of the weekly maintanance routine. My computer has so much more real functionality over that toy you use it is pathetic. And I didnt pay one red cent for any of my software. Maybe you should shut your mouth, open your ears and mind and give Linux a real chance? You cant compare it with MS because initally you WILL be dissapointed when things dont work like you expect. But in a few months you will look back on Windows and understand that though MS built a great OS for the idiot average Joe masses that cant wipe their own butts themselves, you really were limited and hamstrung and that Linux is the much smarter way.

HOTTILA
8th April 2007, 12:58 AM
Windows are for BAMBIE$.... You can do more things in LINUX... and you have a lot of freedom...
Join the linux force and you will learn a lot... and you wont see that BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH and you won't need NORTON that slows down your system.

Look at my KDETV it has better quality than the windows software that came with my PixelView TV Ultra card.
and the windows software that came with it looked liked it has a spyware that connects to internet everttime i watch TV! so i chucked it out...

JN4OldSchool
8th April 2007, 01:10 AM
hey HOTTILA, that is neat software! I use mythtv on mine but I like that. Be careful with those National Geographic channel Bible documentaries. I watched a few today too but I hate that channel, they are so full of crap and get everything wrong. Some have really made me mad. Ironically, the science channel and Disc channel Bible documentaries are much better quality. More impartial, they just state the facts as known.

jim
8th April 2007, 01:28 AM
Modarm

The IP Address is: 125.238.78.105.
The host name is: 125-238-78-105.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz.

Dies
8th April 2007, 01:40 AM
Telling someone to go away is hardly productive in exploring the issue that Linux is more complex to install software compared to MS and that is my point.

Thank you for your reply.


The reason you're being told to go away is because you're either an obvious troll or completely oblivious since you seem to think that the ideas you bring to the table are fresh and original. Nothing you've said is anything that people here haven't heard a million times from a million other noobs. But guess what, people here don't care, that's why they're here.

What's amazing to me is that you would register here just to give us that news flash.

You like Windows better? great, use it, we don't give a crap what you use or whether or not you find Linux easy or hard, ready or not.

Why don't you go bug some Mac users, at least they deserve it. :D

HOTTILA
8th April 2007, 01:50 AM
hey HOTTILA, that is neat software! I use mythtv on mine but I like that. Be careful with those National Geographic channel Bible documentaries. I watched a few today too but I hate that channel, they are so full of crap and get everything wrong. Some have really made me mad. Ironically, the science channel and Disc channel Bible documentaries are much better quality. More impartial, they just state the facts as known.

Hey JN4OldSchool ... I'll try MythTV too cause i don't think i can record movies in KDETV...
I did not watched that National Geographic documentary... I studied philosophy by J.Krishnamurti so i won't be affected by their documentaries to help launch a movie about jesus.

JN4OldSchool
8th April 2007, 02:18 AM
Hey JN4OldSchool ... I'll try MythTV too cause i don't think i can record movies in KDETV...
I did not watched that National Geographic documentary... I studied philosophy by J.Krishnamurti so i won't be affected by their documentaries to help launch a movie about jesus.

Well in that case you may have found some of those documentaries interesting, one even mentions a gnostic gospel that has Jesus meeting Buddah. Of course being Christian I dont go in for that but it is interesting nonetheless. My dislike for the NG channel is not so much the content but their refusal to look at Christ from the side of being the Messiah also. They strictly look at him from the human angle and in doing so totally miss the point in many of the things he did and said. I dont necessarily think they should accept Jesus as the Messiah but I do think that in not giving that aspect fair airtime they are doing themselves a disservice and frankly they look foolish in some of their assumptions. But I digress, back to Fedora bashing... :)

synic
8th April 2007, 02:25 AM
I would be the first to agree with any MS OS AV SWare is very important! MS is the leading OS of choice and therefore tends to be the center or attacks, that said I think it would be true to say all the various OS's need to have AV installed. As for a fight definitely not but a discussion is always welcome. Telling someone to go away is hardly productive in exploring the issue that Linux is more complex to install software compared to MS and that is my point.

Thank you for your reply.
Modarm: I need to put my two bits into this debate as well. I can see that you have elicited substantial replies from some of my Fedora colleagues already. But I need to point out that Fedora isnt a "commercial" opperating system. MS started out as a small insignificant OS, much inferior to "other" OS's out at the time. It did however do something significant in its early days. Mr Gates and MS did enlist the help of a "marketing department" to promot its software and and grow the company. This is the primary reason for the enormous market share it currently holds. A combination of "bundling", "marketing" and some down right illegal behaviour in relation to some of its 'software development practices' has seen it become the most pervasive software company on the planet. This isnt the approach or somthing that Fedora is trying to do.

I think you trying to compare apples and oranges with this one. I run both Fedora and Windowz. I have to run Windowz because of all the 'legacy issues' associated with it. Such as major corporations only issuing Windowz support for their packages etc etc etc. I am trapped in relation to support of legacy issues such as this. This will not be the case in the future. More and more packages are being released as Linux compatable and it is only a matter of time (and it would appear it is here already) before a critical mass requires dual Linux Mac & Windowz support. Not to mention support for Solaris and Open BSD among others.

True there are compatability issues with some Codes and such, but these are actually minor considering the huge amout of work the Linux community has done 'supporting commercial packages'. (And support for Vista is a bit thin on the ground right now anyway) There will always be incompatabilities between packages and OS's and this is going to increase in the furture unless we allow MS to monopolise the market and push TCPA on everyone. (Try TCPA in Google for a horror story!) I am not prepaired to compromise my security with a Vista package. XP was bad enough. I have only had to reinstall XP once this year. But last year cost me four complete XP reinstall's and six (I think) activations; anyone would think I dont know what I am doing with XP :mad:

The point that I am trying to make is that considering the issues faced by everyone who isnt "MS WindowZzz", the amount of work that has been done is staggering and immpressive. It shouldnt be about bagging those that arent in favour of MS WindowZzz. It should be about supporting and congratulating those people that have done sooooo much work to ensure that YOU, should you be so inclined, HAVE THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE what OS you wish to use, who to give you money to, etc etc.

You may like to see the list of bugs that Vista has bought with it in the mean time. Have you tried to copy files around your computer yet? Have you had to 'upgrade' any of you components to "support Vista" yet? Have you need to activate Vista yet? Have you had to "reactivate" Vista yet? What I am trying to point out is that it is never plain sailing with software. There are bugs in everything and Vista is no exception.

Patient's is a virtue. Fedora 7 will be out soon, and it will be an improvement on the decent package that Fedora 6 already is.

bob
8th April 2007, 03:01 AM
Modarm, you're simply picking the wrong distro to compare to Windows. Fedora's not in competition nor designed to be a Windows replacement. You could go to the Fedora Wiki and read all about what the philosophy is and perhaps you'd understand more. If you want to compare Windows replacement distros to Windows, start reading on Distrowatch which of the several hundred distros have that as a goal and then do your testing there and perhaps your comments would have real merit.

As I mentioned, I've been trying to harden an XP box that is not designed to be hardened, plus make it functional at 192 meg/ram for today's applications. Not pretty at all. And now trying to share a printer with a Mac??? Should be a piece of cake but fails every time. The mac works fine for it's part though.

Still on the agenda for Sunday - cleaning up the register after 6 years of install/uninstall and then defragging the drives. Oh yeah, then I still have to upgrade each of the installed programs since this machine's been off-line for 3 years. That should take most of Easter. Wonder if I'll have any conflicts? Maybe I'll just throw in that new Puppy release to have a quick break.....

Oh yes, don't believe I'm telling you to go away. If I wanted that, you'll notice that I could have done that instantly. As has been mentioned, we've had this discussion hundreds of times before in many different threads and it makes no sense to re-hash it once again. Fedora's not out to kill Windows, or any other OS or distro. Linux is not out to become top dog either. It's an option that millions have chosen because it fits their needs and they prefer it. If it doesn't fit yours, fine. If you think you could do it better, it's all open source. Grab a few courses in coding, use the existing base that others have produced and make what YOU believe is the perfect distro. Otherwise, if Windows satisfies your every need, just stick with it and leave us to our mis-conceptions that we have found what's right for us.

pete_1967
8th April 2007, 03:36 AM
Yet another halfwit whining because they are not able to use the other braincell so they could learn to use Linux.

MS is paying for people to modify Wiki entries, I wouldn't be surpirsed if many of these weeners got paid by them as well.

JN4OldSchool
8th April 2007, 04:35 AM
Yet another halfwit whining because they are not able to use the other braincell so they could learn to use Linux.

MS is paying for people to modify Wiki entries, I wouldn't be surpirsed if many of these weeners got paid by them as well.
Really? Where do I sign up? Trolling for dollars! :D

Seve
8th April 2007, 05:01 AM
Hello:
JN4 you get your dollars right after we organize the posse and get the pitchforks and torches and hunt this butt ugly Troll down. :D

Seve

Modarm
8th April 2007, 05:26 AM
I must say that I have never been around so many negative nasty individuals it is almost like some of you are fastrated little boys. At the very begining I stated how I belive the team behind Fedora to be brilliant but to be placing to much emphasis in one area and not enough on simplicity and ease of use. Your acvrage user does not care or want to know about all the fantastic things an OS can or can not do they just want it to work for the job they want to perform this has been the whole point and it is obvious that a lot of people here can not grasp this fact. I would be the first to agree that Linux is one of the most stable OS in the right hands but not everyone has the same passion about an OS. As to all the downers on MS and their OS's you don't get to be the leader being junk - their products are well designed and meet the needs of the vast majority circumstances. There really is no need to be zealous freaks as some here are. And to finish I still belive in Fedora and the Linux movement.

Dan
8th April 2007, 05:27 AM
*Head snaps up off of desktop ... suddenly wide awake.*

"Pitchforks? Torches? Troll hunt? YEAH! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!"

<..:p..>

Evenin' Seve!

Dan

EDIT: Aw heck, modarm! This thread is doomed anyway! Let's have some fun with it. Stand your ground!

Way back on post number two, Bob had you clean in the crosshairs and dead to rights. But being the kind of fellow he is, he stopped just shy of squeezing one off ... and thumbed the bolt back open.

So life is yours again. Make a decent go of it! And enjoy!

Welcome aboard guy!

I'll give you this ... you sure know how to stir up a good brawl!

D.

EDIT2: Hmmm. If I correctly interpret Jim's post up there, I'd say that bright red dot playing around on the front of your shirt also speaks volumes all by itself!

D.

<..:p..>

Seve
8th April 2007, 05:34 AM
Hello Dan:

How are you doing Sir ?

I see you are looking after our friend Modarm .. :cool:

Man -o- man where has spring gone ...... sheesh it tried to snow here today ... the birds, squirrels and even the trees are confused :eek:

Seve

Dan
8th April 2007, 05:48 AM
Hello Dan:

How are you doing Sir ?

I see you are looking after our friend Modarm .. :cool:

Man -o- man where has spring gone ...... sheesh it tried to snow here today ... the birds, squirrels and even the trees are confused :eek:

Seve Doing fine, if a bit cold ... and snowing again here too. Guess I missed summer. Must have slept through it.

Dang!


Yeah. But I gotta tell ya! You missed a heck of a show. I stumbled in just in time to watch Ol' Bob rear up and tear off a chunk. And what a sight to see it was! I just pushed my hat back on my head and watched in pure admiration. <..:p..>

How are you doing up there? Still got some firewood laid in? <..:D..>

Dan

Seve
8th April 2007, 06:00 AM
Hello Dan:

Sorry I missed out on the Bob thing [I think :)] ...... but I'm confident he used his oft proven wise judgment and presided in a fair and just way.
[It wasn't aimed at you was it ? :D ]

Yes Sir ..... it's gotten rather cold here in the last day or so ... I say what the @!$%$@% .
I sent an email off the weather network to see what they could do about it. --- The response should be worth posting.
After some beautiful days in the 70's it really hurts ...

Dang that global warming thing ....

Seve

Dan
8th April 2007, 06:10 AM
[It wasn't aimed at you was it ? ] Surprisingly, not this time!


I sent an email off the weather network to see what they could do about it. --- The response should be worth posting. Hah! Oh boy! This I gotta see!

Yeah, It's going to be hard Monday watching all those blossoms on the trees turn black and fall. The roses hadn't gotten started yet, so I think they're ok. But the cherry blossoms and the peaches are toast. My redbud and golden hawthorne are probably ok though. The lilacs don't really care.

And I can't blame Global Bluing this time. I haven't seen any blue sky in days!

<..:p..>

Seve
8th April 2007, 06:13 AM
Hello Dan:

Yes it's kind of strange to see all the buds on the trees and flowers sprouting and then this !%$!%$!.

Oh well ..... maybe MS is having a bad quarter :eek:

Seve

Dan
8th April 2007, 06:15 AM
Oh well ..... maybe MS is having a bad quarter We can only hope!

Demz
8th April 2007, 06:25 AM
don't feed the trolls

Seve
8th April 2007, 06:29 AM
Hello Dan:
And I was only kidding you about [It wasn't aimed at you was it ? ]

I know that you are so far above the kind of behaviour, where Bob would have to take you out to the woodshed.

Now .... there are others that do deserve that kind of treatment from time to time. ;)

Come to think of it ...... where is that $&*##@& Troll again ... :D

Seve

JN4OldSchool
8th April 2007, 10:47 AM
yeah, If I had any doubts he was just trolling I dont anymore, after that last post. Go use your MS and shut the hell up, we dont care. OK, cool! 5:50 am, off to sunrise service! Happy easter folks, dont eat too much candy.

edit: I had a change of heart, after all, it is resurrection sunday and I'm off to church and here I am being rude to our new friend. I'm real sorry. Let me rephrase that for you. Why dont you either shut the hell up and learn how to use Linux so you know what the hell you are talking about OR shut the hell up and go back to windows where you belong anyway. :)

leigh123linux
8th April 2007, 11:14 AM
Hi everyone, I have setup Fedora6 and had a good look it is certainly the best looking yet. BUT it is simply never going to compete with Microsoft as main stream or functional for the masses as it is far to difficult to work with. A simple example is go buy some AV software from any vendor for Win XP and it is simple to install, a complete novice can install and the application just works (everything is consistent start menu's shortcuts etc) - try this with Fedora or any Linux. The simple truth is the brains behind Fedora are brilliant but have little or no commercial understanding. People want ther computers to be as simple as their video machine in the lounge.
If Fedora and RedHat can ever jsut work on simplifacation drop all the crappie bits which are fustrating and cumbersom to install and work on real functionality then you would be able to beat the
:)

Heres a cube for Windows

http://chsalmon.club.fr/index.php?en/Yod-m-3d-about



People want ther computers to be as simple as their video machine in the lounge

I dont like dumb machines and dumped windows because it is for dumb users :p

JonC
8th April 2007, 12:06 PM
Don't feed the trolls.

HOTTILA
8th April 2007, 12:31 PM
Hey Modarm continue with your FEDORA 6 installation... don't be a pirate... you can chuck your windows out of the window.... You'll love FEDORA.... you'll learn cutting edge linux... and most important of all is the LINUX COMMUNITY.

synic
8th April 2007, 12:57 PM
don't feed the trolls


love it... :)

synic
8th April 2007, 01:01 PM
Modarm, where are you? I can see that this might be a bit of a barrage of "Fedora furor" but you happen to have walked into a hornets nest here.

Please dont be put off by it all though. Lots of people here, me included, are probably a little bit passionate about Fedora. My applauling Windowz experiance dosent help but I have a habbit of killing OS's... and Fedora is no exception... so my comments come with a bit of a disclaimer..

Wayne
8th April 2007, 01:03 PM
Why is that MS trolls always look at Linux as competition to windows and not as an alternative, as it really is? Rhetorical question, no need to answer :)

Wayne

Dan
8th April 2007, 03:13 PM
Why is that MS trolls always look at Linux as competition to windows and not as an alternative, as it really is? Rhetorical question, no need to answer :)

Wayne All the more reason to expound at length! Dain Bramage. Gotta be Dain Bramage!

More accurately, I think it's a classic fight or flight fear reaction to a perceived threat to their comfort zone, and is probably derived from a fixated or under developed maturity level. That, and an atrophied or completely lacking set of critical thinking skills.

Or it could just be genetics.

<..:eek:..>

lmo
8th April 2007, 08:36 PM
Enjoy fedora6 modarm. I didn't see anything negative in your comments. This 20MB flash demo that someone did comparing aero and beryl is kind of funny though. http://linuxmonitor.net/blog/2007/03/windows-vista-aero-vs-linux-ubuntu.html

Wayne
8th April 2007, 11:54 PM
All the more reason to expound at length! Dain Bramage. Gotta be Dain Bramage!

More accurately, I think it's a classic fight or flight fear reaction to a perceived threat to their comfort zone, and is probably derived from a fixated or under developed maturity level. That, and an atrophied or completely lacking set of critical thinking skills.

Or it could just be genetics.

<..:eek:..>

You mean a bit of a high forehead and closer to the trees than the rest of us :D

Wayne

Vansolrick
9th April 2007, 12:58 AM
I have nothing really AGAINST windows, however I cannot imagine why someone would even TRY to compare windows to Linux. Windows is proprietary for one thing, and the concepts for opensource are far too different to be comparing to a platform that is closed source. Sure Linux doesn't just work out of the box. There are some distros that are trying to get there, like Ubuntu. However that isn't the true purpose of Linux anyways. It was designed to give users COMPLETE freedom. Windows is limited.

Im not going to say anything to diss anyone. My opinion is that if you are another windows fanboy comparing 2 very UNLIkE operating systems in bias toward windows just because it's easier to use, then you shouldn't have installed Linux in the first place. If simplicity simply means superiority to you, then either you have a lot of learning to do, or you just need to get off this forum, uninstall Fedora (or any distro) and live back in Windows. :rolleyes:

JN4OldSchool
9th April 2007, 02:51 AM
I have nothing really AGAINST windows, however I cannot imagine why someone would even TRY to compare windows to Linux. Windows is proprietary for one thing, and the concepts for opensource are far too different to be comparing to a platform that is closed source. Sure Linux doesn't just work out of the box. There are some distros that are trying to get there, like Ubuntu. However that isn't the true purpose of Linux anyways. It was designed to give users COMPLETE freedom. Windows is limited.

Im not going to say anything to diss anyone. My opinion is that if you are another windows fanboy comparing 2 very UNLIkE operating systems in bias toward windows just because it's easier to use, then you shouldn't have installed Linux in the first place. If simplicity simply means superiority to you, then either you have a lot of learning to do, or you just need to get off this forum, uninstall Fedora (or any distro) and live back in Windows. :rolleyes:

I read your post with some aprehension considering your handle, but...wiser words were never spoken in here! As Dan would say, "Ayup!" You hit it dead on the head!

contraculto
9th April 2007, 08:01 AM
well, i'm new to fedora too (been using it for about 2 weeks now) and used xp for years and years (since it appeared till i installed fc6) and i'm much more comfortable with Linux.

harder to use? nope, you just need to get used to it. all hail the mighty google. i think my preferred feature is yum. getting great software was never EVER as easy in win. and as someone pointed out, most issues i had were just me being used to the ms way. Gnome is simple and clean software, i've so far never had to compile from source and i just love it.

actually i play more games here than on windows, and i even have IE6 working fine (web developer here, dont hate me =P). and thats it, so far i've been able to do everything i wanted, and it's been way more fun than hard.

but then again, if you don't want to learn, don't bother. but i (REALLY!) found the transition from xp to fc6 easier than from xp to vista. and i had to try vista, mother got a new pc and i had to setup both machines roughly at the same time. i'm one happy penguin.

Vansolrick
9th April 2007, 03:47 PM
well, i'm new to fedora too (been using it for about 2 weeks now) and used xp for years and years (since it appeared till i installed fc6) and i'm much more comfortable with Linux.

harder to use? nope, you just need to get used to it. all hail the mighty google. i think my preferred feature is yum. getting great software was never EVER as easy in win. and as someone pointed out, most issues i had were just me being used to the ms way. Gnome is simple and clean software, i've so far never had to compile from source and i just love it.

actually i play more games here than on windows, and i even have IE6 working fine (web developer here, dont hate me =P). and thats it, so far i've been able to do everything i wanted, and it's been way more fun than hard.

but then again, if you don't want to learn, don't bother. but i (REALLY!) found the transition from xp to fc6 easier than from xp to vista. and i had to try vista, mother got a new pc and i had to setup both machines roughly at the same time. i'm one happy penguin.

Im glad you like it :D I just started using it too. However, I migrated to Fedora from Gentoo, so Fedora is seeming VERY easy for me now :) Gentoo is focused completely on user customization in every complete way. It can either get too difficult at times or just too time consuming :P However Im happy you find Fedora easy after switching from windoze. I had troubles when I first switched to Linux

contraculto
9th April 2007, 04:59 PM
but how long ago did you switch? because as far as i've seen linux does evolve pretty fast.

offcenter77
9th April 2007, 06:36 PM
Holy cow!! I miss one day on the forums, and war breaks out!

I just want to make one point about simplicity: If simplicity means that EVERYTHING has an icon, then I completely disagree. I have Fedora as my primary desktop at home and I'm on Unix every day at work.

I have to say that there is a HUGE difference in productivity between *nix based systems than Windows. In Windows, you spend so much time SHOWING the system what you want it to do (go here, CLICK, go there, CLICK, open this, CLICK, go to this menu CLICK, CLICK, CLICK....) Why do I need to show the OS what I want? I know what I want, let me just tell the system what I want:

Open console, provide command, close console. Done!

If you know what you're doing then it's a snap. And as for LEARNING what you're doing, if you start using a new OS with pre-conceived ideas (from another OS) then it WILL be difficult. But I have school age kids that are just now learning computers, and they have no problem learning either Linux or Windows. I've even heard my 5 year old daughter tell my 9 year old son: "No, you do it that way on Mommy's computer, but on Daddy's you have to do it this way..." Of course my wife's confuser is running Windows.

contraculto
9th April 2007, 09:41 PM
"No, you do it that way on Mommy's computer, but on Daddy's you have to do it this way..." Of course my wife's confuser is running Windows.

heh, i tend to picture my future that way. not that i'm married, but eventualy i will be

l!nux
10th April 2007, 04:18 AM
Why use Fedora and NOT MS?

"Software is like sex: it's better when it's free" -- Linus Torvalds

Vansolrick
10th April 2007, 04:20 AM
but how long ago did you switch? because as far as i've seen linux does evolve pretty fast.

I switched about 8-10 months ago (I think, it could be less)

Whoopi_Cat
10th April 2007, 04:15 PM
The original post contained the following identifier:

"video machine in the lounge."

It's fun to think of all the things that could mean!

;->

Whoopi Cat

offcenter77
10th April 2007, 04:28 PM
Actually, the line was:

"People want ther computers to be as simple as their video machine in the lounge."

I STILL know people that their VCR / DVD player etc blinks at 12:00. For the non-technically inclined, it's still too difficult for them to change it.

JN4OldSchool
10th April 2007, 05:03 PM
Actually, the line was:

"People want ther computers to be as simple as their video machine in the lounge."

I STILL know people that their VCR / DVD player etc blinks at 12:00. For the non-technically inclined, it's still too difficult for them to change it.

Naw, like everything else, it isnt that the problem is too hard to solve, it is that people are too lazy to do it. They wont bother reading the manual that came with the VCR because that would be "too much work..." The same way they wont crack a book or go online to learn how to do what they need to with Linux. What amazes me is the level of embedded capabilities we have in our electronic gadgets these days. But how many people actually use them? You are looking for a phone so instead of buying the cheap $50 model that is functional and a great phone that ONLY calls other phones you instead spend the $300 for something that takes pictures, plays MP3s or video games, downloads movies, scratches your butt and babysits the canary. But will you bother reading the directions to figure out how to use all these functions? Nope, too much work. So you cant do anything except call your buds anyway...Such is life...

offcenter77
10th April 2007, 06:34 PM
Well, that's what I mean by "too difficult to change it". It's way too involved for them to read the manual. They would rather plug it in and jam a DVD into it before they even connect it to the TV.

bob
10th April 2007, 07:57 PM
Yes, that's the problem with VCR's. They should automatically work right out of the box, no matter how you connect the cables or push the buttons. My Microwave (possibly by Microsoft?) works keeps time perfectly so it must be the VCR's fault if that time doesn't automatically set up for me. If someone doesn't immediately show me how to fix it and agree that it's a piece of garbage, I'm going back to my Microwave. Nyah. ;)

offcenter77
10th April 2007, 08:54 PM
Ok, put your DVDs in the microwave. Have fun! ;)

Wayne
11th April 2007, 12:00 AM
Umm, I don't recall setting the time on the VCR/DVD/HDD recorder here and the time is correct. No one else in the house knows how to do it (Except my eldest and he didn't do it)

Wayne

Dies
11th April 2007, 12:05 AM
Umm, I don't recall setting the time on the VCR/DVD/HDD recorder here and the time is correct. No one else in the house knows how to do it (Except my eldest and he didn't do it)

Wayne

Must be "Windows based" :D

brunson
11th April 2007, 12:18 AM
Ok, put your DVDs in the microwave. Have fun! ;)
LOL!!! +1

tw2113
11th April 2007, 12:36 AM
So he's trying to burn DVDs? I don't think his rpms are up to speed with the microwave

HOTTILA
11th April 2007, 12:48 AM
Hey speaking of cd burning.... what the best cd burning software in LINUX?

bob
11th April 2007, 01:40 AM
In my opinion, K3B is the best for burning.

Jeez, maybe my tongue-in-cheek comments were a little too oblique? Translation assistance needed? Okay then! "Microwave" = "Microsoft/Windows" ; "VCR" = "Fedora or any linux version" ; the rest = "Make it easier for me to understand or else I'm threatening to go back to Windows! You'll be sorry!"

JN4OldSchool
11th April 2007, 02:43 AM
I have never really used anything except K3b. I am sure others are just as good but I just love to turn the speaker volume up for the trumpet fanfare upon successful burn! Drives my wife nuts! :)

Wayne
11th April 2007, 03:00 AM
I have never really used anything except K3b. I am sure others are just as good but I just love to turn the speaker volume up for the trumpet fanfare upon successful burn! Drives my wife nuts! :)

I don't like to "dirty" my Gnome desktop with kdelibs so I just use the Gnome right-click to burn ISOs and Gnome Baker or Brasero for anything else. They suit my simple needs perfectly.

Wayne

Wayne
11th April 2007, 03:08 AM
So, if I brew 23 litres of homebrew and invite my friends over to drink it with me am I in 'competition' with the major breweries? After all, I'm making as much in monetary terms out of it as Fedora, ie, nothing!

Wayne

schwim
11th April 2007, 03:12 AM
Hey there guys,

I can't be arsed to read this whole thing, only because I read the other 1,037 threads on this subject in this very forum and it's a tired subject.

BUT

Something caught my eye.

A/V. Everyone states that you don't need it, but if you're sharing a network, it's irresponsible not to have it.

You can search the forum for a thread I created a week ago about this topic, and you'll find out how well a/v went for me. In short, total crap. You need to build Dazuko into the kernel for real time file access, and some of us don't want (or can't) build kernels to run a simple application. It was probably a blessing that nobody offered to help, as I imagine I would have b0rked my install.

My solution was to boot up my spare win machine with AVG Pro on it, make my user dirs accessible on my linux box and make them virtual drives on the Win machine.

It's incredibly sad that doing that is easier (and safer) than simply properly installing the application on FC.

thanks,
json

Modarm
11th April 2007, 04:40 AM
Well, now I have made so many new friends and got everyone talking you will all be pleased to know I have got Fedora6 up and running well, its joined to a MS network and i can login using my AD credentials. Not all out of the box but after reading and searching for a few hours found some great howto's which worked a treat. Now I just want to get CLAM to work and the last one is to get the "Desktop Effects" which look very cool. Any help and conversation is always appreciated and critisum is ok if constructive!
I am thinking I will try a newer video card as the current one is an older GeForce MX100 32mb so it may not support the DeskTop Effects ? ;)

HOTTILA
11th April 2007, 06:24 AM
Hey Modarm its better if you upgrade your video card then run your desktop for faster 3D
you can also run windows in linux look at my deskop... no worries... I just downloaded Solaris 10 ... i'll add it and OpenBSD later

Vansolrick
11th April 2007, 06:30 AM
Must be "Windows based" :D
HAHAHA I was going to post a windows related comment to the topic however I didn't feel like following thru. Haha good one :D

Modarm
11th April 2007, 06:37 AM
Just completing clam install now engine is out of date and yum update clamav - could not find update match for clamav. I'll reinstall clamav at least fresh is working well. Thanks for you help I will change the V.Card latter today and see if that fixes it.

HOTTILA
11th April 2007, 06:49 AM
Try installing yumex ... it works better for me... and add LIVNA in the repository section ... http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/6/i386/

bob
11th April 2007, 11:16 AM
Modarm, ClamAV is very good but you'll have to read the manual pages: 'man clam' and what you'll want to use for updates is 'freshclam'. For some reason, to get it to actually work, you have to do a short edit and put a comment (#) before the word "example". http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=138014

winstonfg
11th April 2007, 06:54 PM
No competiton? You obviously have no interest in security because you tout a system which, after 10 years, still has no native support for SSH or SSL, probably because BG can't convert it/license it/make it proprietary or otherwise screw the consumer by making it "his" and then charging you for it.

I just converted to Fedora when my Windows machine crashed so badly it wouldn't boot (I'd been expecting it for some time, it having got slower and slower over the preceeding months. Of course, since I had a pre-installed copy, I couldn't recover without spending 120 Euros on a new copy of the OS. Thank Christ I'd downloaded an ISO of Fedora a few weeks previously. Booted up the machine, installed it first time and, aside from a few hours waiting for it to download all the latest updates, no problems whatsoever. It now works like a charm and doesn't hammer my disk at random points in the day for reasons known only to people who've plumbed the stygian depths of the Windows Repository.

And best of all, it's FREE.

Winston out.