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cptok
15th April 2004, 02:35 AM
Hello all,

Challenging question for me. I am an outsource provider of systems with customers, and they are all (my own) RH9 installs. That needs to be updated, and soon.

I support only production servers - but they are very "core" servers. Only OS, Sendmail, Bind, LDAP and my own source builds of Apache/PHP/MySQL. No GUI or other desktop packages. It is all strictly console.

So my question is - with that kind of setup, is there really much of a difference between Fedora and RH Ent. 3? My inclination is to go with Fedora Core 1 and avoid having to keep buying licenses for each client (and myself!) as the basic OS cannot be that different?

Thoughts, ideas, advice and all comments welcome!
CP

SuperNu
15th April 2004, 05:19 AM
I haven't used Red Hat Enterprise 3, but from what I have read, Fedora is a test bed for Red Hat Enterprise. After a feature becomes stable in Fedora, it will be introduced to Red Hat Enterprise. You should try a Fedora install on a test machine and see how it runs. If it runs fine, then I would say go for Fedora. BTW, Fedora Core 2 should be out shortly.

--SN

cptok
15th April 2004, 06:13 AM
Thanks.

I have been running Fedora Core 1 on my dev server (and running my production mail, web etc.). It has been solid. Not a hiccup.... That's why I inquired.

CP

gonzalo76
15th April 2004, 06:46 AM
BTW, Fedora Core 2 should be out shortly.
I thought it should be out on April 5th... where did I read that?
I can't wait anymore !!!

Ug
15th April 2004, 12:32 PM
cptok - Since you appear to have the knowledge with which to troubleshoot any such problem with the servers then I'd recommedn going with Fedora. As you obviously do not require the extra support which Red Hat is offering through its enterprise development.

cptok
15th April 2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Ug
cptok - Since you appear to have the knowledge with which to troubleshoot any such problem with the servers then I'd recommedn going with Fedora. As you obviously do not require the extra support which Red Hat is offering through its enterprise development.Ug - thank you! That went right to the "core" of my question (no pun intended). If the difference primarily is the support, then I agree. If the kernel and supporing OS apps were significantly different (as in less stable), then I would see the argument for RH Ent.

(*Ug makes a Mental Note* make sure you click quote and not edit when trying to quote someone in a thread - Ug)
(And mhelios makes a mental note to make sure Ug remembers this. :D ROFL. - mhelios)

Jman
15th April 2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by gonzalo76
I thought it should be out on April 5th... where did I read that?
Only about a month off: FC2 will be released early May. Perhaps that was a test release you read about.

I can't wait anymore !!!
Me neither. :)

And for personal use, Feodra gets new features faster than Enterprise. This way we don't have the conflict of latest and greatest vs. tested for months on end like when everybody used Red Hat Linux.

Ug
15th April 2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by cptok
Ug - thank you! That went right to the "core" of my question (no pun intended). If the difference primarily is the support, then I agree. If the kernel and supporing OS apps were significantly different (as in less stable), then I would see the argument for RH Ent. No problem. Thread Resolved.

logan5
16th April 2004, 02:06 AM
Something to think about is the "life cycle" of the product. RH ES3 will still be supported in late 2006 for bugs, security and enhancements updates, (including hardware updates).

http://www.redhat.com/security/

Not so with Fedora (core 1 or 2). The Release interval is stated to be at 4 - 6 months (vs 12 - 18 for RH ES) with Update lifetime 2 -3 months after next release (vs 5 years with RH ES).

http://www.redhat.com/software/rhelorfedora/

Just something to think about. I personally like time away from work and not having ulcers from worrying about the next OS upgrade. What “new”features do you really need tomorrow if you are not using a GUI and running only “Sendmail, Bind, LDAP and my own source builds of Apache/PHP/MySQL”? Fedora works great for me at home, but I would really have to think about using it for a production environment.

mars_hall
16th April 2004, 02:58 AM
Then again, what about the fedora legacy project?

Ug
16th April 2004, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by logan5
I personally like time away from work and not having ulcers from worrying about the next OS upgrade. What “new”features do you really need tomorrow if you are not using a GUI and running only “Sendmail, Bind, LDAP and my own source builds of Apache/PHP/MySQL”? You don't have to upgrade to the next version though. After all no one is forcing you to upgrade.

cptok
16th April 2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Ug
You don't have to upgrade to the next version though. After all no one is forcing you to upgrade.

Ug -- that is true so long as patched/updates are being provided for the legacy version. That became quite a headache for RedHat supporting multiple "legacy" versions...

I too worry about upgrading production systems. I truly "Despise" it, and that's with a capital "D"! Will Fedora Core 1 be supported with patches for some defined period? Or will the update/upgrade be forced (as it is with RH9)?

CP

Ug
16th April 2004, 10:41 AM
It appears to be a forced upgrade...

mhelios
16th April 2004, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by cptok
Will Fedora Core 1 be supported with patches for some defined period? Or will the update/upgrade be forced (as it is with RH9)?

CP
See http://fedora.redhat.com/about/faq/
From that page:


Updates will be available for two to three months after the release of the subsequent version; that is, updates for Fedora Core 1 will be provided for two to three months after the release of Fedora Core 2, and so forth.

For longer lasting support check out the Fedora Legacy Project:
http://www.fedoralegacy.org/

Ug
16th April 2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by cptok
(*Ug makes a Mental Note* make sure you click quote and not edit when trying to quote someone in a thread - Ug)
(And mhelios makes a mental note to make sure Ug remembers this. :D ROFL. - mhelios) I somehow managed to delete the entire post, it was quite amusing. I ended up sitting here scratching my head, wondering where my post had gone.

klopfest
16th April 2004, 04:52 PM
Regarding the comment on supported apps:
"Ug - thank you! That went right to the "core" of my question (no pun intended). If the difference primarily is the support, then I agree. If the kernel and supporing OS apps were significantly different (as in less stable), then I would see the argument for RH Ent."

If you are wanting to use 3rd party apps, like Oracle, etc. then RH Ent. is what you need, since most of these folks are not certifying on Fedora (changes too quickly). However, if you are only using Apache, Samba, etc., then Fedora works great!

Just my two cents...

Ug
17th April 2004, 03:09 PM
It depends how essential you rate certification is. If oracle still works on Fedora but dosen't have a certificate - what difference does it make?

cptok
17th April 2004, 05:16 PM
Wow - this generated a lot of good thoughts. But here are my conclusions after reading and speaking with others (including Red Hat).

For production servers (which I do) RH Ent is THE way to go. The release cycle of Fedora is too quick, and the support (2-3 months after a new release) forces too much upgrading. That is fine for a desktop, or "fun" machine, but absolutely unacceptable for a production mail/web/DNS server. As someone said earlier, I value my sleep too much for that. Each upgrade is a significant risk, and requires a good deal of time. If each server supports 1,000 users, that is tremendously demanding.

Finally, since most of my servers are "educational", $25/$50 for WS/AS is not bad!

Thanks again for all the feedback!
CP

Just as an after thought.... this is a very good summary:

http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~sedwards/presentations/iccad2003-crandall.pdf

jwimbush
25th July 2006, 05:51 PM
When I upgraded to fedora core 5 I had to sacrifice my oracle installation but I kept all my database files, so data loss is not an issue. I finally got my server configured the way I want it. Now I want to reinstall the oracle database server. For those of you who have done this sucessfully what are the issues with fc5 and oracle 10g ?? I would be most appreciative if you could point me in the right direction.