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Linux_Weary
19th July 2006, 01:40 PM
Hello again. I have decided to make the switch to Linux and never use Windows XP again. (Believe me, I hate the thought of putting away a system with a ease-of-use/performance ratio that seems to equal the convolution-of-use/lack-of-performance ratio in linux.) To tell you the truth I've never hated computers so much since I started using Linux, but that is neither here nor there...


TO THE POINT: I need one of those programs that can scan data regardless of what the partition information reads and give me the ability to more than less drag and drop my data safely into a linux folder. So it would need to support NTFS. Also it would need to be free because I am a very poor guy. NOTE: that is not why I am switching to linux. In fact it is probably cheaper to use windows since at least in windows I know how to steal everything I need including patching trial versions, etc... Linux offers free software but charges you for the training you'll need in order to get it working (haha).

MORE INFO: The partition table is inaccurate on the disk. The windows partition information is all inaccurate. I can see that it is there in fdisk, but I cannot do anything with it in terms of mounting it. Since I'm not using winXP anymore and I have linux installed on the same hard drive I need to recover that data on the winXP partition using Linux.

MORE INFORMATION: I screwed up the partition table and the boot sector and the windows boot loader by running the command in Grub: setup(hd0,0) instead of setup(hd0,0) and to top it off I ran fixboot and fixmbr in windows recovery which then gave me the message: "Invalid partition table" when i restarted the computer.

URGENT: The faster I can recover that information from my ntfs partition the faster I can remove the ntfs partition and properly install linux, so please, anyone, I'm asking you with creases of desperation around my sweat stained face, please find me the aforementioned software.

wshawn
19th July 2006, 03:15 PM
You seem to be in a bit of a pickle. This situation is why I try to aviod installing both OS's on the same drive and why we are cosntantly told to backup before proceeding.

Here is your problem: You changed your partition information from the way Windows last saw it Usually by running the fix boot / fixmbr without options this will fix.

As I see it you have to possiblities, both a little dangerous.

One install windows over windows and try to recover the data that way. I have a how to for you:

http://shawndisk.com/modules/xoopsfaq/index.php?cat_id=3#q30

The other option may prove much safer for you...

Get a KNOPPIX cd and boot from it as it will not touch your drive and cause further damage.
See if you can browse the file contents of your Windows Data...

If you can, I would try looking for another computer to FTP the files to so you can wipe the whole drive then put them back.

Also from the KNOPPIX cd you can look at the partitions with Qtparted, though I would not suggest committing any changes to the drive.

Also, as another thought... If you are using a branded machine (DELL, HP, etc) the problem may be that they have a hidden NON Dos partition (if memory serves on the type). If it gets deleted it can cause problems. You might call them and tell them what is going on, but they will probably tell you to jsut restore the computer to factory which means you loose all of your data.

I hope this helps. The only other advice I can offer (unless you live close to me and I'll go after the data) is take your time, don't work tired and slowly work your way through this.

pparks1
19th July 2006, 03:16 PM
I have decided to make the switch to Linux and never use Windows XP again
What encouraged you to make this decision? From your post, it appears that nearly all of your experience thus far is with Windows and there is a learning curve to Linux that takes some time. Maybe your decision to just scrap windows immediately and switch exclusively to linux was a bit premature.


I've never hated computers so much since I started using Linux, but that is neither here nor there...
Not to be mean, but wouldn't you expect to have some trouble at first? You are using a system that you are unfamiliar with. It certainly will be more difficult that using a system that you have used for years.


Linux offers free software but charges you for the training you'll need in order to get it working (haha).
I've been using Linux at home and at work for over 5 years now, and I've never had to pay for any training on software packages. But I also started off slow, using a second computer for testing, reading a couple of books on how to use Linux and just playing when I had time. It took me a year or two to really become comfortable (which is likely similar to how long it took to become comfortable using other OS's earlier in my life).

TO THE POINT: I'm not really aware of a software package that is going to easily allow you to do what you want. If this were me, I would get my hands on another hard drive and install Windows to it. Then install the drive that you are having trouble with as a secondary drive and pull the information off from that drive. Of course, this makes an assumption that you either have another hard drive or can get one.

wshawn
19th July 2006, 03:28 PM
TO THE POINT: I'm not really aware of a software package that is going to easily allow you to do what you want. If this were me, I would get my hands on another hard drive and install Windows to it. Then install the drive that you are having trouble with as a secondary drive and pull the information off from that drive. Of course, this makes an assumption that you either have another hard drive or can get one.

It also makes assumption that windows can read it even though it seems to have a bad partition table. The Windows Installer is a nasty creature at times. The best over all solution would be to get the drive into a working Linux system, mount it read only and pull the files directly.

The more Windows is involved on a limping system, the more damage seems to occur.

ccrvic
19th July 2006, 04:07 PM
(Believe me, I hate the thought of putting away a system with a ease-of-use/performance ratio that seems to equal the convolution-of-use/lack-of-performance ratio in linux.) To tell you the truth I've never hated computers so much since I started using Linux

Vic's Top Tip: Comments like this - along with your choice of username - are typical troll behaviour. If you want volunteers to answer your questions and help you out, behaving like someone who is out to stir up trouble really isn't going to help you.


The partition table is inaccurate on the disk.

This is the most worrying bit of your post; if your partition table is screwed, your data probably is too. However, it looks like you've just killed the MBR - if so, you're in luck.


TO THE POINT: I need one of those programs that can scan data regardless of what the partition information reads and give me the ability to more than less drag and drop my data safely into a linux folder. So it would need to support NTFS.

Linux has supported read access to NTFS for some considerable time now. It's supported write access too, if you listen to a good number of people.


I know how to steal everything I need

Hint: thieves are not popular people in most societies.


Linux offers free software but charges you for the training you'll need in order to get it working (haha).

I've yet to pay a penny in training.


The windows partition information is all inaccurate. I can see that it is there in fdisk, but I cannot do anything with it in terms of mounting it.

Why not?


URGENT: The faster I can recover that information from my ntfs partition the faster I can remove the ntfs partition and properly install linux, so please, anyone, I'm asking you with creases of desperation around my sweat stained face, please find me the aforementioned software.

Google for Knoppix. That's most likely to get you out of your current predicament.

Vic.

Linux_Weary
19th July 2006, 06:00 PM
Thanks for the replies.

To me it seems that everyone is wrong about this, I could be wrong... I'll explain.

I have put windows on a seperate drive and tried to read the other windows partition. It won't. I have just damaged the mbr and the windows boot loader so all the other data is in-tact.

I could be wrong in the sense that knoppix wont work. Like I have said the ntfs partition cannot be mounted, the error i get is... well i'll just show you.

fdisk -l



Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 16709 134212648+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary.


mount


[root@localhost Desktop]# mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/windows -t ntfs -r -o umask=0222

wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1,
missing codepage or other error
In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
dmesg | tail or so


I could be wrong.. I dont understand how knoppix could possibly get my ntfs data if it cannot be mounted. The partition boot sector and the partition table are both inaccurate for that partition.

The only way to get that data aside from repairing the boot sect and partition table would be to use one of those deep scanning tools that are used for criminal investigations that recover ALL data on a disk. Except I need one that supports ntfs, obviously. And it has to be able to structure the directories so that you can easily drag and drop. I've used a proggy like this before on windows, but i lost it. And cannot find a free replacement.

pparks1
19th July 2006, 06:05 PM
I have put windows on a seperate drive and tried to read the other windows partition. It won't.
This MEANS that you have done more than damage the MBR. You don't need an MBR on a secondary disk. You need the MBR simply to boot the disk. If you are using another load of an OS on another disk and still CANNOT read this drive, you have a significant problem.


Did you simply mean that you tried to put Windows on "another partition" rather than a "seperate drive"? Those are 2 totally seperate things.

Linux_Weary
19th July 2006, 07:19 PM
I know I damaged more than the MBR, I already said that. I messed up the windows boot sector, and the partition table.

I meant drive, not partition.

I CAN read the drive, I just cannot access windows. I installed FC5 on the second partition of sda1, it works fine.

Anyways bah humbug. I gave up and decided to work my old windows xp magic to deep scan the disk and rebuild the filesystem so I can find all my data quickly and easily and save it as opposed to the linux options which were (as usual) command line and rather poor.

sentry
19th July 2006, 07:45 PM
Alright, many people have been dancing around the issue but with that last post it's clear that you need more then technical help.

The errors in your logic astound and while some people have been very nice at suggesting you examine them I wont.

Get a clue.

If you're some sort of Windoze wizard then use it but don't come into this communities yard and start telling us that such and such us inferior. I seriously doubt that you have any basis to make these claims other than gut reactions, so save it. If I believed for one second that you were posting out of some deep understanding of the tools I would not be writing this.

And btw, if you don't see the beauty of the command line then stay away from Vista because they're beefing it up considerably last I checked. Maybe you should head over to microsoft.com and enlighten yourself as to why they would make that choice. HINT: think support flamebait...

pparks1
19th July 2006, 07:50 PM
I'm sure this is a waste of time but

decided to work my old windows xp magic to deep scan the disk and rebuild the filesystem
Could you please share with us what you did to "deep scan" and "rebuild the filesystem"? I've been working in IT for years, and I've never once seen a hard drive which ended up with a trashed MBR and a partition table which was destoyed that came back to life with any tools to "rebuild the filesystem". I've been able to use commercial data recovery software packages to pull data off damaged drives....but that simply saved the data. It didn't rebuild the file system in any way. So, either you aren't explaining your problem very well and we don't understand what is going on, or you are simply a troll and trying to spread your opinion that windows is the way to go. If the latter is the case, I'd give up now, we all make our own choices and your banter is not likely to swing any opinions in this part. If it's the former, I apologize for criticizing you.


linux options which were (as usual) command line and rather poor
Well, I'm a huge fan of the command line. In years of working with Linux in an IT profession, the command line has been tried and true for me. Could your unhappiness with the quality of the tools be more related to your lack of experience with the operating system? It's hard enough to take baby steps and get used to a new system, but jumping in with a new system during a disaster situation typically is not going to lead to good results.

wshawn
20th July 2006, 04:37 AM
Could you please share with us what you did to "deep scan" and "rebuild the filesystem"? I've been working in IT for years, and I've never once seen a hard drive which ended up with a trashed MBR and a partition table which was destoyed that came back to life with any tools to "rebuild the filesystem".

I have five operating system families and over 20 years working IT related situations, and I whole heartedly agree with you up to the point of him having a third party backup of the partition table and / or MBR.

I have managed to pull the data out of this situationa few times with the same consistancy: there will be data loss. The extent of which is the issue.

I have a client who is an appeals lawyer and serious MMORPG gamer who went from DOS to OS/2 to Windows 98 to Windows XP. She felt she could make Windows do what ever she wanted. Took her a year to learn to leave well enough alone and follow the "rules". This thread sounds remotely like the same attitude.

Simply stated it seems that a mistake was made and an attempt to fix it went wrong. I assume he is going to try run Norton Utilities from the CD ROM on the drive to see if it can possibly fix and "rebuild" the drive. Problem is Norton's success rate on doing that has drastically decreased since fat/fat32 left prominance.

In any case I wish him well in his endeavors and everything that can be mentioned to help him probably ahs been.

WIth that I'm unsubscribing from this thread and off to help someone else if I can.

Thanks guys for your input and your insights...

Linux_Weary
20th July 2006, 04:55 AM
Yeah thanks guys. Obviously my discontent with linux sprouts from my affinity for being served, and served well. In other words, Windows is easier to learn. And the thing is, it wouldn't be so bad if I entered the command line and typed a command and it said: command not present. But instead, I enter a command and it spits out some information which I then have to garble to find what is useful, and then find that it doesn't even do what I want it to do. For example when I install nvidia drivers instead of them working properly I got this seriously choppy screen that clearly indicates something is wrong. I delt with selinux already so it isn't that. From what I hear it is a kernel compatibility issue and this is what I'm talking about. There ALWAYS seems to be a compatibility issue. In windows when a serious problem like that exists the updates come out and a click of a button later it has the problem solved. In linux it seems i'm expected to reprogram everything myself. Which is fine, I just don't find it ideal, so from that perspective it seems reasonable to me that I should hate linux the entire time I use it. I mean if I wanted to search google to find out why my screen is really choppy because the system is too stupid to inform me the reason or better yet fix it, then well... oh yeah... I guess if I wanted to do that I'd install linux... Which I have done! Damn, I guess this really is my fault and I shouldn't blame linux but rather myself.

Sorry to have wasted everyone's time with another useless post. Every day I use linux i learn more and I learn more that I like about it, but the things which I hate I do not think will ever change (with the exception of possibly the command line although i'm already feeling like i have arthritis). Linux to me is like a pizza with pineapple on it. I really really hate pineapple on a pizza. I just cannot believe that I'm alone in my hatred toward linux... Doesn't anyone else find themselves sitting for hours figuring out what is wrong with their system? Doesn't it piss you off? It pisses me off so all of my negative comments aren't for rhetoric, their for dealing with my frustration. Again i'm sorry for wasting your time.

binarybird
20th July 2006, 05:26 AM
It seems that this thread has pretty much wound up but I was just curious as to a couple of items...although a couple people made some good suggestions, your initial comments didn't make sense:


by running the command in Grub: setup(hd0,0) instead of setup(hd0,0) what?

Also you later deduced that
I have just damaged the mbr and the windows boot loader so all the other data is in-tact. if that was true why did you not try to look into setting up your boot loader again and have it write it to the /boot partition of your linux setup. If you did not create a /boot partition you could have attempted to write it back over to the MBR. Grub has alot of options...not to mention most distros include an option during install to "check/diagnose/repair" current setups.

Bottom line, and this isn't a slam, a flame, or derogatory it's just a statement of opinion after reading this thread that 1) you don't have the patience to really learn. you have spent more time complaining about linux rather than attempting to understand it. and 2) you stated
In other words, Windows is easier to learn. I would say that in Windows you don't really "learn" what's going on. You click some little exe or some GUI window and Windows does the rest. Windoes isn't necessairly easier to learn...it's easier to be lazy at...to not become interested in what the computer and operating system are really doing.

Anyhoos...I understand Linux can be frustrating. I work in it daily (job and hobby) and the coolest part about Linux is it gives you the ability to teach yourself and experiment. So don't give up...just have some patience and be willing to research what you are trying to accomplish. Most groups and boards don't want somebody to come in and just say "do my homework for me".

Don't Fear The Penguins....

Linux_Weary
20th July 2006, 06:15 AM
good comment binary bird. I think i stated that I meant to say setup (hd0) for one of the commands which installs it to the mbr if i'm not mistaken.

The reason i couldn't fix the mbr and reinstall the windows bootloader is because the partition table somehow got befuddled in the process of fixboot and fixmbr. It was a really bad situation but I"m finally over it. I took the easy way out as opposed to getting that partition table fixed. I simply recovered my data with recovery software in windows. As far as help goes this thread is closed, anyone with the mind to flame me bc I hate linux can step right up, the bases are loaded.

pparks1
20th July 2006, 03:56 PM
In other words, Windows is easier to learn
As many have argued in the past, this is debateable. I think many of us started with Windows first, thus it just seems easier. I had over a decade of DOS and Windows behind me before I started playing with Linux....so yes for me Windows "seemed" easier.


it wouldn't be so bad if I entered the command line and typed a command and it said: command not present

That's exactly what it does. See my example

[root@testFC5 ~]# nonexistant-command
-bash: nonexistant-command: command not found
[root@testFC5 ~]#


Doesn't anyone else find themselves sitting for hours figuring out what is wrong with their system?
At first, yes...I found that things were very difficult. As I built experience though and gained perspective things started to get easier and easier.

Sure, I still have problems now and again, but I keep the following things in mind when I do have problems.

#1. There are a ton of distros available and I have a choice of what I want to use.
#2. I'm using a system that is totally free of cost. It doesn't cost me a dime and it's not pirated in any way. I'm completely legal and legit.
#3. I'm using a system that isn't plagued with virus and spyware problems. So, I can surf the web with confidence that my system isn't at risk.
#4. The source code is open. If I don't like the way something works, I can change it.
#5. Things "don't have to be as MS wants them to be". They can be the way that I want them to be.


sorry for wasting your time.
Your discussion was not a waste of time. You are trying, you are looking at your options. For that I applaud you.

You may however find that Linux just does NOT suit your needs. It might just not be the best tool for your needs. In my mind, it's better to know that and accept that fact than spent countless hours being unproductive.

I love and support linux. I work with it at home and at work. I'm certified in Red Hat Linux. But I also have a Windows box at home and countless Windows boxes at work. I'm also certified in Microsoft OS's. They both have a place for me (Linux and Windows). I don't see that changing any time soon. I'm very happy with both and very disappointed in both on many occassions. But I have a choice and I exercise my freedom of choice.

Basically, keep an open-mind, learn as much as you can and make the right decision.

Linux_Weary
20th July 2006, 06:40 PM
Well today was very promising for me. I actually saw more "successfully completed's" than "Fatal errors" and I really am starting to enjoy the company of Linux. In the future I can see myself not being able to live without it.

I do get a kick out of it also. FC5 is the funniest distribution I am willing to bet. You can pretty much depend on it to screw up. I mean yeah I've got a lot of things working but at the same time a lot of lock ups happen or certain sections of the screen will freeze up and you gotta move your cursor around and click different things in the hope that it might return to normal. I'm no longer angry at it though, I've got all my music and videos working plus Enemy territory is working great and I even figured out how to use the minimizer for it. The worst that happens: Rhythmbox freezes a lot but when firefox or something like that freezes it usually comes back together after a few minutes so I can survive that. Its just a really touchy system and although I'm no guru I'm pretty sure its not my hardware given the fact that a 3d engine like ET plays well on it.

sentry
20th July 2006, 06:43 PM
its not my hardware given the fact that a 3d engine like ET plays well on it.
Bullet proof logic, you're hired!

Linux_Weary
20th July 2006, 06:46 PM
Is that supposed to be funny? (Don't quit your day job.)

pparks1
20th July 2006, 06:47 PM
I'm pretty sure its not my hardware given the fact that a 3d engine like ET plays well on it
While that does indicate that your hardware is indeed WORKING, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's 100% compatible.

Glad to see that you are making progress.

bob
21st July 2006, 12:30 AM
Linux_Weary, I'm going to jump in here and comment that you'll get a lot more help if you maintain a positive attitude and appreciate those who are spending time to help you. If you truly want to learn linux and dislike FC for whatever reason, please look into another distro rather than having this love/hate relationship. There's several hundred to choose from, after all. If, however, you do want to keep going in FC, please don't trash-talk the things that you don't understand. After all, this distro is working pretty well for many tens of thousands.