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View Full Version : Why no "Install Everything" in FC5? >:(



targz
2nd May 2006, 09:50 PM
I've been happy using Fedora/Red Hat for many years but I've just reached the end of road with Fedora after installing FC5. Who the **** got their tinkering hands on this release? Every release prior to this one was a dream to install. For ordinary users and my own desktop system I would simply select "Install Everything" and 40 minutes later I would have the full range of Fedora goodies at my fingertips. So, some smart-ass decides to remove this valuable feature from FC5. Why, why, why??!! I just don't get it. What's even worse is that the "Add Software" option in the default GNOME also has no "Select All" option so it takes for ever to manually select everything. Then, if you haven't given up the Package Updater craps out because it can't resolve all the dependencies. Has ANYONE at Fedora ever heard of the adage "If it ain't broke don't fix it"?

This is madness. OSS is supposed to be about freedom of choice but the powers that be within Fedora seem to think it's their God-given right to give with one hand then take away with the other.

Please, can someone show me a pain-free way to install all the packages on the 5 CDs I took so long to download?

pparks1
2nd May 2006, 10:16 PM
First, do a search on this. The question has come up many times and as other threads will point out, it actually did NOT install everything before anyway. Yes, it installed a great # of things, but it never truly did EVERYTHING.

Second, why check the box to install everything rather than just the things you need? Having everything means a massive amount of downloading everytime you run yum update. Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude or negative about what you are doing, just trying to figure out why this is such a big deal to you.

FC5 comes with 2185 rpm packages on those 5 cd's. Honestly, are you going to run dhcp servers, nfs servers, bind servers, network news servers, ntp servers, etc. It's seriously a lot of stuff that you probably won't use. I understand that if it's not loaded, how will you know it exists.....but at the same time, if it puts a single binary into /usr/someplace/binary are you actually going to find it anyway????? You certainly won't have a menu item in KDE or GNOME representing all 2185 packages installed on the system.

I've never tried this, but you could copy every rpm file from the cd's to a folder on your hard drive, navigate into that folder and try rpm -Uvh --replacepkgs *.rpm. You would obviously want to do this IMMEDIATELY following an install of FC5 and then run yum update to update all of those packages.

Like I said, I hope you don't take this the wrong way. Hopefully the rpm -Uvh --replacepkgs *.rpm will give you what you wanted....but maybe you will reconsider your load options and just install a majority of the stuff that you actually want. It's very easy to reload things later with yum.

With yum, you can do a group install......
for example, yum groupinstall "Development Tools"

The group install might get you over the hurdle.

targz
2nd May 2006, 10:24 PM
The reason many users prefer the "Install Everything" option is simply - TIME. It's much easier to uninstall something than to install it. Besides, what's the point of having the 5 CDs anyway if you can't simply load everything on one of today's huge HDs, trim the active services to a minimum and explore what's available. Some of us use Fedora for PLEASURE - the pleasure of exploring what's available ..... without having to go to Add Software for each new app. Besides, my experience with "Add Software" has been dire so far. It's yet to complete a selection without dying on some dependency. FC5 just can't be compared with previous releases.

targz
2nd May 2006, 10:29 PM
Second, why check the box to install everything rather than just the things you need? Having everything means a massive amount of downloading everytime you run yum update. Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude or negative about what you are doing, just trying to figure out why this is such a big deal to you.

It's about CHOICE, fer kreeiissake, not being told by Fedora/Red Hat that what we were given before is now no longer good for us. Just give us the option and let us decide. It's really nobody else's business, is it?

targz
2nd May 2006, 10:47 PM
Furthermore, it seems the software on the CDs is completely redundant, as far as ordinary users are concerned, once the install has completed because "Add Software" seems to have no option for installing from the CDs. Which brainbox dreamt that one up? There should be Add Software options for both sources - CD and online repositories. Forcing all software modification to be carried out online is madness. Some users may be using dial-up connections, for example. I just don't understand why everything has been turned upside down in FC5.

pparks1
2nd May 2006, 10:59 PM
TIME. It's much easier to uninstall something than to install it.
But don't you lose all of that extra time each time you perform yum update, since it's going to download and install hundreds of packages each time?


what's the point of having the 5 CDs anyway
When you have all 5 cd's, you have all packages if you need them. That way if internet access is not available or desired you can still load what you need.


Some of us use Fedora for PLEASURE - the pleasure of exploring what's available
And I agree with that, but even with loading "EVERYTHING", you probably haven't nor will stumble upon a majority of the things that are installed.


Besides, my experience with "Add Software" has been dire so far.
No real experience with that for me. I always just use Yum at a command line and have experienced very few problems across any of the FC releases.


FC5 just can't be compared with previous releases.
You are not alone there, many feel the same. With that said, I've only encountered 1 problem with FC5 thus far (cifs issue with 2003 domain controller) and that was fixed in a recent kernel patch and aside from that, FC5 has been fantastic for me (install, support, speed, etc).

pparks1
2nd May 2006, 11:02 PM
Forcing all software modification to be carried out online is madness.
Well, the benefits of online updates via yum are
1) automatic dependencies resolution. that is very nice
2) always on the newest version, so you don't get caught with a buggy "early" version and bang your head against the wall trying to figure out what is going on when the problem has actually been resolved in a newer release.


Some users may be using dial-up connections
Yes, sad but true. Unfortunately, I don't think Linux is well suited to a slow internet connection.

pparks1
2nd May 2006, 11:06 PM
It's about CHOICE, fer kreeiissake, not being told by Fedora/Red Hat that what we were given before is now no longer good for us. Just give us the option and let us decide. It's really nobody else's business, is it?
Yes, I understand what you are saying. Choice is wonderful and is a primary reason most of us use Linux. I personally wouldn't mind seeing the option there, even though I won't use it myself.

Oh well, they still provide all 2185 packages and I'm pretty sure that
rpm -Uvh --replacepkgs *.rpm will address your issue.

Finalzone
2nd May 2006, 11:11 PM
Furthermore, it seems the software on the CDs is completely redundant, as far as ordinary users are concerned, once the install has completed because "Add Software" seems to have no option for installing from the CDs. Which brainbox dreamt that one up? There should be Add Software options for both sources - CD and online repositories. Forcing all software modification to be carried out online is madness. Some users may be using dial-up connections, for example. I just don't understand why everything has been turned upside down in FC5.
Installation from CD is underway for FC6. Remember there were a major change inside Add/Remove Software with the use of yum as backend. The issue that needs to be solved is when you need to change CDs which is not currently trivial at all. Keep an eye on future update that will provide the How-to set Add/Remove Software to use CD.

targz
2nd May 2006, 11:16 PM
Some of the packages left out of the default install beggar belief. OpenOffice 2's flagship desktop database is an unselected optional extra. Go figure.

targz
2nd May 2006, 11:24 PM
What worries me is that there is currently a lot of buzz about Linux being ready for the desktop/ordinary user but FC5 is setting the clock back years with basic usability issues like these. I'm a sysadmin/web developer and love using yum/CLI but tying software updates to CLI tools will kill any chances of appealing to ordinary new users. Fedora Core just got a lot harder to use for newcomers to Linux and that's a bad thing not just for Fedora but for Linux in general.

Finalzone
3rd May 2006, 01:34 AM
Some of the packages left out of the default install beggar belief. OpenOffice 2's flagship desktop database is an unselected optional extra. Go figure.
Defaut is just ... default. At least there is an option to customize the installation if a user does not like the default setting.


What worries me is that there is currently a lot of buzz about Linux being ready for the desktop/ordinary user but FC5 is setting the clock back years with basic usability issues like these
Fedora Core does not aim to be a specialized desktop. as it is more like a general purpose OS. Users should look on other distros that suit their needs. Some of them provide a LiveCD so users won't need to install them.


I'm a sysadmin/web developer and love using yum/CLI but tying software updates to CLI tools will kill any chances of appealing to ordinary new users
There is yumex for more advanced users and Add/Remove Software (Pirut) for "normal" users.


Fedora Core just got a lot harder to use for newcomers to Linux and that's a bad thing not just for Fedora but for Linux in general.
Not quite as not all newcomers won't have the same learning curve.