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  #1  
Old 27th March 2005, 11:12 PM
Ug Offline
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Time Out Please

Woah woah woah folks. I've been rather busy for the last few weeks and haven't really been visiting the forum as much as would be ideal, so i haven't been able to follow so much as I should.

Having just taken a glance at this "Suggestions & Feedback" forum I'm disheartened, not only are people complaining about politics but i've got an inbox full of stuff. When this forum started out I was proud- that this forum helped, that this forum didn't reduce itself to the politics and the *****ing. But to now look at it makes me sad, whilst it has grown dramatically in size (a double edged sword as some may say) it appears the spirit may have declined in some quarters.

Over the coming week I'm going to look into the details of why people are falling out round here and what should be done about it. (Probably an update of the forum guidelines, and subsequent enforcement of them.) My recent absence probably makes me pretty neutral in such matters as of the moment. I would like people to take some time out from petty disputes and if anyone has any problems to contact me personally.

This forum should focus on helping one another and particularly helping to move new people into the wonderful world of Fedora. We need to organise ourselves to offer effective help to those who need it, as of the moment there are too many threads without decent responses if any. Which isn't good enough.

There is a large knowledge base here- we just need to learn to tap it better. Maybe we need some way of recognising and rewarding those who help in a better way? (Any ideas welcome - please post subsequently).

All i'm asking for at the moment is some peace, and a return to the core values upon which this forum was founded.
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  #2  
Old 28th March 2005, 12:25 AM
bob Online
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Yes, it's been an exciting couple of weeks. In reality, the disputes centered around only a few issues and a few members but the disputes could have been handled in private messages rather than public postings.

I believe that the positive feedback has worked well for the most part, however many members don't understand that the 'blue' feedbacks are not negative, nor neutral, just positive feedbacks from newer members who haven't posted enough to create 'green' feedbacks, which generate points. I must ask if the negative feedback can be reconsidered. I believe that it was designed to illustrate that a bad idea could cause system problems, however it generates the same effect as a slap in the face, and has really angered some members.

To help unanswered threads avoid being lost in the shuffle, would there be a way to have threads with no responses automatically move to the front of the list after 24 hours? I think that seeing 8 or 10 unanswered threads when you log in would cause most members to review them and think of ways to resolve the problems. As it is, we might work on a few problems when we get a chance to log in, but if we have to leave for an hour or two, the rest of the threads disappear from the 'New Posts' and we have to hunt for the ones we intended to get to but ran out of time.

I certainly believe that the core values are still evident in the Forum and that we are not off the beaten path. Most of the private messages I receive are offers to help, not complaints.
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  #3  
Old 28th March 2005, 01:28 AM
jtang613 Offline
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You raise some excellent points and I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I frequent this forum a great deal and make an honest effort to help where I can. I've been witness to some of the threads in question - and am sad to say haven't always been immune to their trappings. I recently found myself being drawn into a rather ugly thread when I realized that certain topics have the potential to really harm the forum dynamics. It was then that I decided for myself not to participate in threads that are clearly flame-bait. Don't feed the trolls, and they'll starve - as it were.

As for the 'reputation' functionality - It's nice to see one's reputation go up, but I personally don't think it's worth all the trouble it causes. I would not miss the 'reputation' if it were disabled.

I too look forward to a return to FedoraForums' core ideals. Helping others, providing useful information and serving as the defacto-standard of what a Linux forum *should* be.

Peace,
Jason
  #4  
Old 28th March 2005, 02:38 AM
radu5er Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ug
...
This forum should focus on helping one another and particularly helping to move new people into the wonderful world of Fedora. We need to organise ourselves to offer effective help to those who need it, as of the moment there are too many threads without decent responses if any. Which isn't good enough.

There is a large knowledge base here- we just need to learn to tap it better. Maybe we need some way of recognising and rewarding those who help in a better way? (Any ideas welcome - please post subsequently).

Is there a way for a link to be placed on the home page to questions that have received no replies or maybe some other minimum number? It would be helpful I think for those 'seasoned members' who can then drop in for a quick look at what's happening on the forum to not have to peruse all of the questions to find the ones without replies.

Also, I think it should be within the perogatives / duties of the managers to delete or archive old threads that really have little or no useful information in them. The reason I suggest something like this is that it might make searching for information easier. Sometimes when I do a search, there are literally hundreds of responses. I realise that this would be a judgement call and we may never know which small piece of info will be the one that gives us a clue as to the fix for our problem, however if we could somehow 'separate the wheat from the chaff' it might make things easier especially for new members.

And also remember, while disagreements happen in every family, the main goals of this forum are mostly well met and we should all try and respect each others views and level of expertiese. As I said, you never know when even a small bit of insight may be just the thing that helps someone uncover a solution for themselves.
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  #5  
Old 28th March 2005, 02:56 AM
jcstille Offline
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Thank you UG for your neutral mellow words. It is very nice to see someone not involved in the situation be able to approach it objectively. I also think that we all identify your seniority here and your general presence. I do feel the same as you. I think this is a great community, have enjoyed my time as an administrator here, and plan to continue being around here for a while (yes ya'll are stuck with me). About the unanswered questions, it would be nice to have a forum where no one can post to, but redirects are sent to it if there are no responses to a thread. Like an unanswered questions forum. Then we could look in that forum to give support for all unanswered questions. It would still be timely though. Once a response is made, the redirect goes away and it is just in it's original forum. Although that is quite a vbulletin hack there.
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  #6  
Old 28th March 2005, 06:26 AM
sej7278 Offline
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I think flaming etc. is a natural progression for these forum-type things, I've seen it on usenet, IRC, community websites, and now forums.

I really don't think there's anything you can do, unfortunately it seems to be human nature.....

Hopefully it won't get to the point where you have to "hire" a team of moderators to lock the offending threads, and cancel people's accounts, or turn the forum into a mailing list, as I've seen before too.
  #7  
Old 28th March 2005, 06:45 AM
james_in_denver Offline
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My $.02 cents worth????

Limit new users to opening a max of 2-3 threads/day. (seems there were a few Fedora Core "bashers" on the board about a week ago. Perhaps the moderators could have closed the threads a little sooner since there were about 7-8 duplicate FC4 bashing threads opened on the same day.

Do away with everything in advanced editor except for "bold", "Italics", "[quote]", and smilies....

That would help keep the yelling down and protect some fragile (or not so fragile) egos if ya know what I mean.
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  #8  
Old 28th March 2005, 08:13 AM
imdeemvp Offline
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I think we should have a beginner's or new to linux area for newbies. The first thread in that part of the forum should point them out to the fedora FAQ's and to seek their answer their first before posting a question.

It should be a place to start in their linux adventure because some of the questions are asked over and over again. I believe the FAQ's cover much of the essential topics in an every day pc operation by users. Every newbie should start their or redirected there by default.
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  #9  
Old 28th March 2005, 04:21 PM
tashirosgt Offline
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(I'm unfamiliar with the political threads - must have skipped them.) As to imdeemvp's suggestion, its good to have FAQ's but it is also helpful to answer the usual questions (yes, over and over again). It's helpful to the answerers! It reinforces the knowledge and if you give a sloppy answer it is helpful to have some other person tweak your directions. The people that ask will eventually show up as people that can inform and they could use the practice.


As to inducting new users, emphasize that the forum has a search feature. Remind users that if they want to keep track of threads they posted-to that they should use advanced search and put in their own name. Emphasize the importance of an apt title for a post. This is more important now that there are so many postings.
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  #10  
Old 28th March 2005, 08:40 PM
foolish Offline
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I've been a partisan in some of the discussion that's been going on, so I'm not the neutral and certanly not the voice of reason that Ug is, but I will say this:

This forum is a great resource, it really is. But please do remember this: It is not a public space. This forum is owned and controlled by the administrators and Ewdi in particular. Posting in this forum is indeed a priveledge, not a right. Users will obey the rules, or they will be gone. Anyone who's ever managed something like this will understand why you have to be strict about this.

Now, the administrators and managers of this forum have done some mistakes. In my opinion, we've not been clear enough on just what our rules are. This has to change. We haven't been clear enough on guidelines for the moderators either. This will too have to change.

All this being said, most of the people using this forum, the moderators especially, are wonderful, dedicated people who try their best to help the community. We're open for suggestions and discussion as long as they are friendly and reasonable.
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  #11  
Old 28th March 2005, 09:11 PM
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keep focus guys, no politics

MOVE ON
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  #12  
Old 28th March 2005, 09:50 PM
dickinsd Offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by justol'bob
To help unanswered threads avoid being lost in the shuffle, would there be a way to have threads with no responses automatically move to the front of the list after 24 hours? I think that seeing 8 or 10 unanswered threads when you log in would cause most members to review them and think of ways to resolve the problems. As it is, we might work on a few problems when we get a chance to log in, but if we have to leave for an hour or two, the rest of the threads disappear from the 'New Posts' and we have to hunt for the ones we intended to get to but ran out of time.
I would like to add to this suggestion, or maybe suggest an alternative method.

I use another forum called daniweb, as a none member or when your logged out you can see the forum index, find answers etc, and they have a link for todays posts, which is similar to the link for new posts on fedoraforum.org

When you login you have an extra link for Unanswered threads I think that this link is the same as doing a search for threads that have 0 replies, but its a quicker way of doing it, and you don't need to tell fedoraforum virgins how to do it.
I am not sure if this is a hack/module for vB as I have noticed that performing a search on FedoraForum for threads that have 0 replies gives you a search ID number. - therefore I don't think you could add a simple link as the search ID may expire?? (just guessing here people)

Anyway, I do think a link for unanswered threads might be a good addition to the forum.

Dave
  #13  
Old 28th March 2005, 10:03 PM
pigpen Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james_in_denver
...
Do away with everything in advanced editor except for "bold", "Italics", "\[quote\]", and smilies....

That would help keep the yelling down and protect some fragile (or not so fragile) egos if ya know what I mean.
I absolutely support this suggestion! Enlarging fonts is not useful for explaining or emphasizing things, anyways.
Also, I support the idea of limiting the number of posts per day (at least for beginners).
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  #14  
Old 29th March 2005, 12:41 AM
engwnbie Offline
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There is nothing wrong with this forum as it is, you can find solutions to most of your issues here if you are willing to look. I am the first one to stick up for some on else if they are being attacked. But as the moderator and admin’s have said "move on". This is a place for help and there are many different cultures so some answers come across harsh even though that they might or might not be how it was put in the first place. Again let it go and help others if you can. Remember this help is provided on a voluntary basis and donated resources (eg. web space and hosting), and I for one don't want to loose a pretty good thing. So I will publicly thank the mod and admin’s because with out them this would not be possible so again let it go and move on.
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  #15  
Old 29th March 2005, 04:53 AM
Trendkill Offline
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as a newbie to this forum i have found it nothing but helpful, and havent been flamed or looked down apon for anything (yet..)

so in other words, from experience in other forums, kill the politics, and just do what this forum is made for, helping each other in a community where the only support comes from our online friends!!!

so far so good imo.
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