Help me understand Windows

[John the train]

I was interested to see that the Consumer Organisation ( a UK body which publishes combined tests and user reports ) has suggested Open Office/Libre Office and Gimp as practical alternatives to MS Office and Photoshop.A path I followed about 6 years ago, which certainly eased my transition to Linux.

[Dan]

... and the strain on my technology budget.

I will share some of the reasons why I personally find Windows to be a good pick:

1) It got THE MOST softwares,almost any program that got a lot of users runs on Windows even those originally developed for Linux is ported to Windows as well (usually with a simple click > install).
The same can not be said about Linux, since there are many Windows software that don't run nativley on linux both games and production software.

2) LTS: Windows XP released 10 years ago will still be updated until April 8 2014. Good luck getting that long support with a linux distro as normal user.

3) Hardware support: sometimes getting stuff to function can require that you do some googeling, but most likley that microphone or whatever was developed and runs just fine on Windows. And while it may run just fine on Linux there is also the manufacturer software that may let you tweak settings to a greater exctent on Windows, and its no guarantee that it will have any software developed for Linux at all.

4) backward compability: Most likley the new windows will support MOST of your old software. And if not then someone is probably providing the solution, Windows 7 even lets you run dos applications with third party applications.

5) no need to dual boot: lets be honest here, many people saying "linux is the best" use software such as whine/virtualbox or dualboot for a reason. Windows has something linux users usually lacks even tho they don't admit this to themself.

6) Stuff don't just die: Adobe dropped flash support for linux? Oh this game isn't developed anymore, no one is updating the package etc? This distro was last updated 2009. ETC.

7) Linux just isn't good for people don't programming, running servers, working as support or have other money related buisnees in running linux. Even programmers sometimes say they runs a wintendo. Linux just don't offer what many enjoy in a computer. Or the tools aren't there and they find themself dualbooting and using linux less and less.

8) habit: why fix what isn't broken? And no need to learn new ways to do the same old stuff.

[bigflopper2]

Originally Posted by birdwatcher

I will share some of the reasons why I personally find Windows to be a good pick:

1) It got THE MOST softwares,almost any program that got a lot of users runs on Windows even those originally developed for Linux is ported to Windows as well (usually with a simple click > install).
The same can not be said about Linux, since there are many Windows software that don't run nativley on linux both games and production software.

2) LTS: Windows XP released 10 years ago will still be updated until April 8 2014. Good luck getting that long support with a linux distro as normal user.

3) Hardware support: sometimes getting stuff to function can require that you do some googeling, but most likley that microphone or whatever was developed and runs just fine on Windows. And while it may run just fine on Linux there is also the manufacturer software that may let you tweak settings to a greater exctent on Windows, and its no guarantee that it will have any software developed for Linux at all.

4) backward compability: Most likley the new windows will support MOST of your old software. And if not then someone is probably providing the solution, Windows 7 even lets you run dos applications with third party applications.

5) no need to dual boot: lets be honest here, many people saying "linux is the best" use software such as whine/virtualbox or dualboot for a reason. Windows has something linux users usually lacks even tho they don't admit this to themself.

6) Stuff don't just die: Adobe dropped flash support for linux? Oh this game isn't developed anymore, no one is updating the package etc? This distro was last updated 2009. ETC.

7) Linux just isn't good for people don't programming, running servers, working as support or have other money related buisnees in running linux. Even programmers sometimes say they runs a wintendo. Linux just don't offer what many enjoy in a computer. Or the tools aren't there and they find themself dualbooting and using linux less and less.

8) habit: why fix what isn't broken? And no need to learn new ways to do the same old stuff.

disagree to all of your points, and you're using mac osx, so no problem at all you think windows is a good pick

very important thing is, windows is preinstalled on almost every desktop, that's why win is that successful, but a user turning on his brain and thinking, "well, restrictions everywhere, is this a win-machine or still a damn f... mac?" are NOT thinking the way you think, that "Windows has something linux users usually lacks even tho they don't admit this to themself"

Looking at your arguments I want to recommend you to look up the difference between causality and correlation.

Originally Posted by bigflopper2

disagree to all of your points, and you're using mac osx, so no problem at all you think windows is a good pick

very important thing is, windows is preinstalled on almost every desktop, that's why win is that successful, but a user turning on his brain and thinking, "well, restrictions everywhere, is this a win-machine or still a damn f... mac?" are NOT thinking the way you think, that "Windows has something linux users usually lacks even tho they don't admit this to themself"

Looking at your arguments I want to recommend you to look up the difference between causality and correlation.

So you disagree to my first point that Windows has the most softwares?

And what sort of limitations are you talking about? I personally find Linux very good for some stuff, but I have not found stuff that I want to do on a computer that I can't do on W.

[Dan]

*Dan thumbs the safety on, slips Uncle Colt back into it's suede sleeping quarters, and reaches up and resets the troll-alert master switch.*


Ahhh, I see. *Sigh!*

It's just birdwatcher again.

Okey dokey. Carry on, everyone.


<....>

[smr54]

@FinalZone, an HP. Drivers weren't the problem, it was the wireless configuration that was the issue. USB connection worked with both OS X and Linux. At any rate, it's a minor issue that I was able to fix, the point was simply that doing without Windows can sometimes have consequences. Yes, using it can often have worse consequences, but as far as out of the box, just works, people expect Windows to do a better job. (I think we all have stories where it didn't, but that's beside the point we're dealing with here, that of people's perception.)

Even when getting something solely for my wife's use, (she uses OS X), I still sometimes have to choose product B rather than A because A is Windows only.
When looking for a peripheral, one often has to check if it's Linux compatible--and with the love of advertising and SEO these days, that gets harder to do. It used to be that you could type in $LAPTOP_MODEL linux, but now, you get 100 hits of stores selling it and 50 more of pages that just have it listed and have Linux somewhere in their metatags.

Reminiscent somehow, of an old Simpsons episode--Marge is asked where she got an idea and she said that she googled girls having fun, "...and after thousands of pages of porn, there it was."

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by bigflopper2

very important thing is, windows is preinstalled on almost every desktop

That is a straight forward point, more and more I think that is Microsoft's real advantage.

My wife started a new job, new notebook from her company with software (function and production) geared toward the company business. So I asked what she wanted to get for her own personal use: tablet, smartphone, netbook, notebook? I figured she would like Windows 7 on the new device. To my surprise she is not a fan of Windows 7. Not a fan of Apple either, so probably not an iPad. Running down the list of things she uses her personal computer for are similar to my list of uses, but I do not think GNU/Linux would be a good fit for her.

So taking a second look at her past and present computer systems, not so much about Windows as it was independent software taylor made for her company's needs. Nothing coming from Windows that really reaches out as a must have.

I am curious to see what she chooses for her personal computing device. And I am curious to see how Microsoft fares, if more hardware becomes available with an OS choice.

[ElderSnake]

It really annoys me how some people try to say Windows works better out of the box in terms of hardware support, i.e "I just got a new Windows computer...and everything Just Works(tm). Unlike <insert Linux distro>" on the same machine.

Not a great example but you get the idea. What they don't seem to realise is how the system builders spend the time to set Windows and the hardware drivers up before they even purchase the machine.

Having done both, I find Windows always takes a lot longer to set up from a fresh bare bones installation having to install all the seperate hardware drivers and utilities that I need/wish to use.

It's not a big deal and an understandable one, it's just the fact people who don't know the key differences, end up spouting such things.

[Evil_Bert]

Installing Win7 on my new* laptop involved 17 drivers and/or utilities to get everything to work. Admittedly, it works darn well after that, but compared to Enterprise Linux, which needed only one 3rd-party driver (nVidia, and even that was optional), it took longer and involved more search-and-download effort. Just don't get me started on how long it takes to setup the Win7 firewall. Grrrrr.


* Second hand off eBay but new for me.

Originally Posted by ElderSnake

It really annoys me how some people try to say Windows works better out of the box in terms of hardware support, i.e "I just got a new Windows computer...and everything Just Works(tm). Unlike <insert Linux distro>" on the same machine.

Not a great example but you get the idea. What they don't seem to realise is how the system builders spend the time to set Windows and the hardware drivers up before they even purchase the machine.

Think from a normal users perspective, imagine having a car that needs new wheels and you buy some alternative claming to be better than original: "ubuntu wheels" and they don't roll after attaching them so you go to the unbuntu wheel store and they say: "realise how the car manufacturer spend time to test this car with your old wheelsm we can't compete with that".

To calm me down they claim to support most cars, but I care for my car and not if it rolls well on the "amiga car" or the "ipad car", at least I would probably avoid buying more ubuntu wheels and would like some new "old wheels". At least they workes after attaching them.

[Dan]

There are so many holes in that analogy, and they are so large ... you could drive an 18 wheel truck through it, and not bump into any real meaning. <....>

[Evil_Bert]

My thoughts exactly.

Originally Posted by Evil_Bert

My thoughts exactly.

Maybe the stuff I said was lacking some vital parts. But I usually make my posts dumber than they have to be, this since I remove arguments (sometimes good powerful/valid arguments) I try to get my message across without writing that much (some would probably argue that I don't write that short messages, but I'm working on that).

I see the whole: saying the same stuff while writing as little as possible (and keeping the english somewhat ok) a worthy challange. Makes forum posting more fun IMO (but yeah it also makes my posts look a bit stupid sometimes).

[Dan]

<....>

Ooooohkay.

*Dan shakes his head, takes a sip of coffee ... turns around and walks out of the room.*