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  #16  
Old 29th March 2012, 10:32 AM
satanselbow Offline
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Wink Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigflopper2 View Post
spot-on !!!
... and the community benefits each and every time; reading between the lines the reason there has been little to no take up of "Unity" on other distros as it is an un-portable code soup that no-one is interested enough to pursue... what they have to offer - they can keep

The path Ubuntu is currently racing down will do little more than marginalise it in the community on which it depends and ultimately ensures it's survival.
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  #17  
Old 29th March 2012, 11:42 AM
aleph Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

This whole arguing over kernel names sounds theological to me.

But I enjoy every mockery of Ubuntu here
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  #18  
Old 29th March 2012, 12:23 PM
AlanSac Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Play nice now!
Ubuntu is a good beginning distribution for those who have always used
Windows, and are finally ready to take the training wheels off their bicycle.

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  #19  
Old 29th March 2012, 12:39 PM
leepaul
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanSac View Post
Play nice now!
Ubuntu is a good beginning distribution for those who have always used
Windows, and are finally ready to take the training wheels off their bicycle.


Sorry that was my best attempt at playing nice
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  #20  
Old 29th March 2012, 12:46 PM
sanhozay Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by leepaul View Post
Ubuntu doesn't have the right to rename the kernel.
Canonical are not renaming the kernel. This is a complete non-story and is not news. Major distributions, including Fedora, refer to pre-built kernels as their kernel and it's been so for years.

The term Fedora kernel has been in use on this forum without complaint since as far back as 2004.

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=191283
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=164716
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=132142
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=22581
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  #21  
Old 29th March 2012, 01:11 PM
satanselbow Offline
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Wink Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”


Some people are just no fun - imagine backing up your argument with documented proof, evidence, fore-thought and reason... no fun at all
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  #22  
Old 29th March 2012, 02:52 PM
secipolla Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

I just read the first posts...
I usually keep my mouth shut regarding that distribution because in general it's wiser to not say anything than to say bad things.
But that not so indirect mention to RH/Fedora plus the self-claim of 'high quality' just went over the top.
I'm one that got encouraged to install Linux for someone who had borked her virus-ridden, semi-crippled XP starter in part due to Ubuntu's propaganda (back in Hardy's day). But ever since, I have witnessed many times Ubuntu's community attitude of trying to 'be on the top' just as much or more by sabotaging than by raising their own game.
This is a zeitgeist in there that is really stinking.
Just an example of their 'high-quality' is their translation service in Launchpad. They opened it and mixed it to make projects use it but their 'translation teams' originated in the Ubuntu community and are used as Ubuntu's translation teams. At least for my native language the quality is very low and they keep boosting that they have their system highly translated...
When I translated apps that use Launchpad, the translations were frequently vandalised by people who had no idea what they were doing (or maybe were just messing with them). The apps can create closed translation groups but they are very much discouraged to the point of bullying to do so. As if forcing them to use the Ubuntu/official translation teams they will keep with their big statistics to attract more projects to use that service. And they don't care a **** if the translations are crap because, after all, nobody will have anything better than them. I've witnessed this attitude in other realms too: 'if we can't be the best let all our contenders - other open source distros - be just as crap as we are'. And they use the same FUD and lies like all big losers, as seen on this topic.
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  #23  
Old 29th March 2012, 03:23 PM
bob Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

In reality, it's not "us against them", it's just us. We all choose to use linux because it suits our needs, our ideals and our machines. We have some 300-400 different distros just in linux and more if you include BSD as part of the clan.

So, if Ubuntu folk have aimed some literature at non-linux users and tend to refer to it as an OS rather than a distro, it may only be to show that it's equivalent to MS or Apple as an option of what to use without going into it's background or full identity.

Really, this is not a race or competition. If people try some flavor of linux, like it, use it, recommend it and contribute to it, that benefits all of us. Sure, I'd prefer that they didn't give that jab about Red Hat/Fedora in their script, but they're trying to become a viable commercial product and are entitled to point out why #2 (or probably #3, depending on SuSE) is different from #1.
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  #24  
Old 29th March 2012, 03:41 PM
leepaul
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob View Post
In reality, it's not "us against them", it's just us. We all choose to use linux because it suits our needs, our ideals and our machines. We have some 300-400 different distros just in linux and more if you include BSD as part of the clan.

So, if Ubuntu folk have aimed some literature at non-linux users and tend to refer to it as an OS rather than a distro, it may only be to show that it's equivalent to MS or Apple as an option of what to use without going into it's background or full identity.

Really, this is not a race or competition. If people try some flavor of linux, like it, use it, recommend it and contribute to it, that benefits all of us. Sure, I'd prefer that they didn't give that jab about Red Hat/Fedora in their script, but they're trying to become a viable commercial product and are entitled to point out why #2 (or probably #3, depending on SuSE) is different from #1.
I dispute this figure, there are about 200 distros and about 200 ubuntu spins that don't deserve to be called a distro.
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  #25  
Old 29th March 2012, 03:51 PM
bob Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Distrowatch names 298 'active' distros, 59 'dormant' and 322 'inactive'. I'd sure agree that there are a ton of spins, not just ubuntu spins that have a name but little more.
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  #26  
Old 29th March 2012, 04:03 PM
BBQdave Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by leepaul View Post
and about 200 ubuntu spins that don't deserve to be called a distro.
Have a sip of the Ubuntu Kool-Aid, and then explore a little more and install Fedora or Debian.
It's a gentle introduction to GNU/Linux, a gateway to a better life (unchained from M$)

The funny puzzle of Ubuntu, is that it's strength is attracting and catching noobs, but they do not capitalize well on it. And good luck with the Ubuntu Tablet breaking into a saturated market of iShiney

Oh, I forgot, they'll be OK. Mark said they are making huge in-gains against RHEL in the enterprise market
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  #27  
Old 29th March 2012, 04:25 PM
leepaul
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQdave View Post
Have a sip of the Ubuntu Kool-Aid, and then explore a little more and install Fedora or Debian.
It's a gentle introduction to GNU/Linux, a gateway to a better life (unchained from M$)


The funny puzzle of Ubuntu, is that it's strength is attracting and catching noobs, but they do not capitalize well on it. And good luck with the Ubuntu Tablet breaking into a saturated market of iShiney

Oh, I forgot, they'll be OK. Mark said they are making huge in-gains against RHEL in the enterprise market
Sorry I prefer Beer, as for exploring Fedora or Debian, I originally used Debian (for 3 year+) several years ago then swapped to Fedora (I currently maintain packages for fedora and rpmfusion).
As for M$ I haven't used any of the crappy offerings since XP drove me away
I did give ubuntu a fair try but it failed to install several times with different releases.
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  #28  
Old 29th March 2012, 06:12 PM
RupertPupkin Offline
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Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQdave View Post
Mark said they are making huge in-gains against RHEL in the enterprise market
Yeah, he's been taken to task for that silly claim, and especially for calling Debian part of the "Ubuntu ecosystem."
The Shuttleworth reality distortion field is strong. He still has not made a profit on Canonical, and that must be eating at him.
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  #29  
Old 29th March 2012, 06:19 PM
satanselbow Offline
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Talking Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Quote:
Originally Posted by RupertPupkin View Post
He still has not made a profit on Canonical, and that must be eating at him.
Unity will turn it around - you wait... and try not to laugh too loud

Last edited by satanselbow; 29th March 2012 at 06:20 PM. Reason: brief loss of "o"
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  #30  
Old 30th March 2012, 06:53 AM
aleph Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: Ubuntu: “We’re not Linux”

Mark should pray for RH every night before he goes to sleep, because RH is dedicated to open source ecosystem, and in a sense is the upstream of Canonical. As has been pointed out in several posts here, RH directly contributes to infrastructural projects like the kernel and Canonical "leeches" from downstream (another major upstream is Debian). You can check the LWN kernel commit statistics to find a glaring zero percentage from Canonical employees, while RH remains top (such as this https://lwn.net/Articles/485058/)*. I'm not blaming Canonical for getting anything for nothing because this is how open source business is supposed to work. I'm trying to point out that claiming Canonical being able to "replace" RH is absurd. It makes as mush sense as eating the hand that feeds you for breakfast. The only way it can "replace" RHEL is to buy the RH company. But this is equally absurd. If anything, it would be the other way around.

Fortunate enough for Mark, RH doesn't do business like MS. Had that been true, Canonical would have been sued out of existence long ago in the patent litigation courts.

And forget Mark's figures. Wake me up when Canonical makes billions USD in Linux (http://investors.redhat.com/released...leaseID=660156).

And by the way, RH doesn't operate in tax havens like Isle of Man
--
* However it cannot be ruled out that "None" and "Unknown" sections could have Canonical contributions.
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