Tom's Hardware Review

[Gareth Jones]

I was less impressed myself. I read it as just another user projecting his own opinions (or those he's picked up on in his own particular circles) as hard facts for everyone. It also suffered from "pointless/misleading-benchmark syndrome"...

At least he did detail the customization options toward the end of the review, but I think it would both improve the neutrality and usefulness to readers if the changes for specific dislikes were dealt with where they were first mentioned in the review, rather than implying at that stage that users have no choice with these "problems".

That said, it was a lot more thorough than most reviews, and contained information that might actually be useful for people trying Fedora 16 for the first time. That at least is a good thing.

[stevea]

Originally Posted by Gareth Jones

I was less impressed myself. I read it as just another user projecting his own opinions (or those he's picked up on in his own particular circles) as hard facts for everyone. It also suffered from "pointless/misleading-benchmark syndrome"...

At least he did detail the customization options toward the end of the review, but I think it would both improve the neutrality and usefulness to readers if the changes for specific dislikes were dealt with where they were first mentioned in the review, rather than implying at that stage that users have no choice with these "problems".

That said, it was a lot more thorough than most reviews, and contained information that might actually be useful for people trying Fedora 16 for the first time. That at least is a good thing.

I generally agree there is a lot of personal emotive 'projection' there. However there is some truth in the matter. Fedora is not an ideal distro for noobs and recent converts. You and I don't have (much) trouble working through or around the constant steam of glitches. Still there are a lot of noobs and converts here and they do tolerably well - tho' some leave in a huff. I wonder if they wouldn't be better served by a more end-user oriented distro that changes at a slower pace. So fedora is not purely for developers, not close tho' some use it, it's not strictly non-noobish - tho' any noob using Fedora needs to understand what they are getting into.

Sliding into personal opinion - I must agree that G3's interface is not a good fit for developers, tho' usable. But any developer or linux-wrangler or self-respecing admin knows how to circumvent that in 10 minutes. It's not a reason to leave fedora. Gnome3 is ONLY a default among many desktops and it's ONLY the desktop. The seething goodness of the actively fermenting compost pile we call a 'repo' remains.

It would be odd and irrational for Fedora to not support G3. By use (in Fedora especially) some of the rough edges may come off G3 - and clearly it is improving. Then ~5 years down the road Redhat will have to pick another desktop for RHEL7. By then perhaps Wayland will be replacing X11 and Gnome3 will be a legacy desktop (and jpollard will be kvetching like a grumpy old man complaining about teenagers).

[sillav]

Originally Posted by BBQdave

I agree. Just wish the extensions and tweaks (which are now readily available) would have been there from the start.

In my experience, all the extensions have broken in the new Gnome 3.4 to be included in F17. Alternative menu works, but I haven't found any others that do. I read some nauseating blog post by an extensions developer about why breaking functionality every release was a good thing.

[jpollard]

Naaa... Some teenagers already have better ideas than the gnome developers.

[Pitfall]

I agree with the quote of OP.

Software should be built for the users who use it. The majority of Linux users are power users. They should have built it with speed in mind instead of simplicity. Is it really that hard to understand?

My opinion is that XFCE should be the Fedora default DE. I would have chosen KDE if Fedora was not Gtk+ centric like openSUSE.

[Gareth Jones]

Originally Posted by stevea

Fedora is not an ideal distro for noobs and recent converts.

Agreed. I still tend to think of Fedora as a developers' distro, in the sense that maybe the default packages aren't developer-orientated, but the versions (effectively latest "stable" at time of release) are very much aimed at those who want or need to be near the bleeding edge of Linux-future.

It would be odd and irrational for Fedora to not support G3.

Absolutely.

By then perhaps Wayland will be replacing X11 and Gnome3 will be a legacy desktop.

I think the plan is for KWin, Mutter (Shell), Compiz (Unity) and Muffin (Cinnamon) to become Wayland compositors themselves, so they will just run directly on top of KMS/Gallium3D (possibly as a full-screen window in Weston, the reference Wayland compositor), instead of on X. Weston itself is deliberately fairly minimal, and last I read (which is a while ago!) it looked like its role in the finished system would be to replace virtual-console-switching as the fast-user-switching mechanism. But 5 years is a long time in Linux of course...

Gnome3 wont become " Great " till 3.10 an so on. jut look at Gnome2 that didnt become nicer till Gnome2.10

Gnome3 atm is like a baby, its still teething ( or however you spell it ) time

[sea]

By all 'hate' and 'un-usability', after several months of LXDE favor, i tend to say, G3 isnt that bad for a device you set up, and dont touch any more, once it is configured.
In other words, after F15 where G3 was my lovelock to linux (!) , i had abandoded it just as fast from my favorite DE list, as the other DE's gave me way more ways to configure the handling and workflow.

So still, LXDE remains my most favorite DE for my mobile device (netbook), while my Laptop will have to tolorate Gnome 3.X aside of Winsucks for the gameplay.
As i'll be using the laptop to watch videos, read and write emails, and maybe as a VM playground (due to more horsepower).
For those tasks, G3 looks nice, is something one can show others and tell them, hey its free!

EDIT:
Note for personal future, if/when i ever happen to have an ARM based Tablet, i'll be installing F1X G3.X on it imemdiatly (imho G3 is designed for tablets, nothing else)!

[DBelton]

Originally Posted by Finalzone

Real issue are some users habit on their desktop environment nothing more. it happened before in several deskop environment in the past and it won't be the last time. Recently I let some people especially teenagers using my laptop running Gnome Shell who are yet to complain about usability other than looking for menu.

Not really.

It's MY desktop, and MY habits. Not the Gnome developers, Not the Fedora people. But Mine.

So I want MY desktop to fit MY work habits. I don't want to alter my habits to fit a desktop, when there are others out there that I can configure to fit my habits.

[sea]

Originally Posted by DBelton

Not really.

It's MY desktop, and MY habits. Not the Gnome developers, Not the Fedora people. But Mine.

So I want MY desktop to fit MY work habits. I don't want to alter my habits to fit a desktop, when there are others out there that I can configure to fit my habits.

Thats the point where we are lucky people using linux and have the freedom of (very simplified) choices with Fedora, to choose among MANY diffrent DE's avaialble for us to install.

[DBelton]

yep

It's a simple matter of changing the desktop over to one better suited for my work habits. I am using LXDE more and more and Gnome less and less.

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by DBelton

yep

It's a simple matter of changing the desktop over to one better suited for my work habits. I am using LXDE more and more and Gnome less and less.

How goes it with gnome applications or other applications like GIMP (if you use these) in LXDE?

I am playing around with Xfce, but still not quite comfortable with that DE. And I am using Debian 6 (with Gnome 2 and backports), very happy with this DE. But am looking down the road when Debian 6 reaches EOL, and a new DE.

hopefully Fedora continues to have these other WM and DE's. at the rate maintainers or co-maintainers are leaving there wont be much left to use apart from maybe Gnome and KDE and maybe XFCE

[sea]

Not that sure, to me, fedora was VERY user friendly.
On the other hand, i'm someone who's not afraid to break things and re-install diffrent things in order to fix an issue i havent had until the change i'll be doing on the install after the next one... ehm...

Those distros i tried (all *buntu, deb, slack, arch, sabayon, meego, suse) had either a lack of DE's available, didnt catch my attention with their 'main' DE, were too complicated (or too oldschool) or i just disliked for some other reasons (suse, sabayon).

As i dont mind to use a buggy DE, as long i know its been worked on, i guess i have to agree, fedora is for developers, while offering an end user DE to the masses.
Its using bleeding edge, while providing the (to me) most stable environment, less driver issues and very easy modifications, among its biggest bonus... the great community! (slime slime )

Back to topic...

The article didnt teach anything (ok i now know 1 (to me) important extensions more) new, too much bla bla, and i wouldnt use a DE which the author of the article had designed, thats surly not my 'taste'!
On the other hand, its the most fact oriented article i've read so far about G3.
Its well structured, explains many things to new comers to either Fedora or Linux in general, and is easy to read. It lists pro's and contra's, though not as emotion-less one would/should expect, but still more analyict that most other articles.

[DBelton]

most Gnome application run fine in LXDE. Just ran gimp in it and slapped together a pic and uploaded into another thread on here Not much of a pic, but then again, I only spent less than 5 minutes doing it.

I have been using XFCE as well, trying to find me new permanent desktop environment and completely get rid of Gnome.