M$ Threatens Linux Users with Lawsuits

[Hiltonizer]

looks like microshaft is getting desperate:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech...eut/index.html

[Finalzone]

Linux violates more than 228 patents, according to a recent report from a research group, Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer said at the company's Asian Government Leaders Forum in Singapore.

Unlike closed software such as Microsoft Windows, open source developers can look, find and remove the infringed codes from the source and replace them by another.

The Open Source Risk Management Group said earlier this year that potential intellectual property claims against Linux could expose users to unexpected claims that might result in lawsuits.

Like SCO is suing its own users. The result is most of them left.


Software developer SCO Group Inc., which claims that Linux is based on its Unix software, is suing companies including International Business Machines Corp.

That sentence is enough to discredit the lawsuit because SCO is still unable to prove their claim.

"We think our software is far more secure than open-source software. It is more secure because we stand behind it, we fixed it, because we built it. Nobody ever knows who built open-source software," he added.

Pure marketing, Ballmer. You deliberately avoid to mention it is the people (developers and users) who build open source softwares. Read again, open source is meant to give the control back to the people. With open source available to the public, people are free to hack the code, submit a new idea. Try that with closed source.

[s_reynisson]

Looks like M$ will also take the patent way a la SCO, but, using the WTO to rid them selfs of any bad press - film at 11
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11...ithout_firing/

[Shadow Skill]

Do they honestly think they can pull this off, the rest of the world as I understand it laughs at the US patent system, so how erxactly do they expect to break the back of multination corporations and actual governments. I for one have no intention of not using Fedora or any other good Linux distrobution. Besides if they take out Linux [fat chance.] I think I know enough to move over to Unix or FreeBSD all the software will just get ported and BSD will end up forking out like Linux has. [Which is both good and bad.] Isn't it already true that much of Linux software can be used without issue on BSD systems?

[bunsen]

first they ignore you. then they laugh at you. then they fight you. then you win.
-ghandi-

[Jman]

I don't see any lawsuits coming, just more Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Balmer wants to keep the Asian market, so of course he says Microsoft stands behind their products, and will pay their way through such issues.

As to no one knowing where open source came from, the changelogs are public. I don't know what Microsoft put in it's products, so how am I to know that Microsoft didn't violate any patents?

The idea of software patents being silly is common on slashdot but not elsewhere (business, etc.) where they belive in "intellectual property". Microsoft in particular believes in software patents.

Let's analyze this number of 228 patents Linux with this article (the article actually said 283, let's assume this higher number). Half of these are generally thrown out in court. A third of these are from "Linux friendly" companies. This leaves us with 94 or so. If you assume 228 it is 76. Microsoft holds 27 of the total, but they have not been court tested.

I don't like software patents. They seem to stifle innovation while increasing lawyer costs (which apparently can be a couple million US$ per case).

[Tru]

Sorry I know this is off the subject but I see people with registered linux user and I want to know how and where I can go to do that to.

[bunsen]

register your linux box here: http://counter.li.org/

[sailor]

Sorry I know this is off the subject but I see people with registered linux user and I want to know how and where I can go to do that to.

you aren't that far off topic, that is exactly what MS is afraid of and why they are doing this...

[Tru]

Cool, thank you.

[Tru]

Ok, Im a registered linux user now. Die windows j/k LOL

[pbtpu40]

The fact that Microsoft is closed source and publishing so called "patent infringements" brings about an interesting point. Microsoft is closed source, as in us the public have no ability to see or reference their source. Yet they can easily go out and download open source projects and use portions of source in their own products, and no one would be able to know. Linux has been growing for a long time, and Microsoft has ignored them, and I also wouldn't doubt used them. The hardest problem is they need to prove they published the source code before the open source equivalent, fat chance.

Also one is dealing with software, how does one patent a problem to be solved, with software there are hundreds if not thousands of ways to solve a problem. If two programs solve the same problem and one of those problems sources can be found, the other programmer can use the published source as a reference. As the open source community cannot see or reference said source for an example, only the opposite is possible, the closed source company using the open source program to make their own [closed source].

That being said, what is to prevent a company patenting a problem, and then waiting for someone else to come up with the solution. Thats pretty cheap to use someone else to do your work for you. Looking at the way many companies do business today it is no surprise. I know that some of the code that I have written for my current job was being used in ways that it was never intended. This code was in fact copyrighted, it wasn't as if they were using the synthesized VHDL, it was the full blown VHDL code. [The code is distributed as a reference for creating your own designs. They were building directly on top of it.] The most interesting thing is though, the problem that code solved is a very common problem, that someone could patent, it produced the timing and signals to talk to an LCD using an FPGA. No patent has been filed on that interface, but what would happen if someone did? Would all of us who needed that interface, and designed it on our own have to pay the patent holder. I look at this as money hungry MBA's, lawyers, and CEO's looking to engineers to make a quick buck, and leave the engineers in the dust.

--Note the above paragraph was edited after I confused copyright and patents at 1 in the morning. :o Thank you to crackers for point out that I confused the two, and that MS has not actually filed suit.

I will say this though, these actions are also going to be detrimental to their own user base. If one treats their user base like crap, their users will leave and go else where. I think this is Microsoft trying to kill something that they now realize is a real, and big threat. Mozilla Firefox is gaining a larger chunk of the browser usage daily. Its not 50% but its certainly climbing.

But here's an interesting thought. If said violation is true, how did the source end up in the Linux system to begin with. Someone had to write it, if they worked for Microsoft one signs a no disclosure agreement for a reason, said person would be in violation and would be responsible, and Linux would be left with the task of rewriting conflicting source.

There are so many options of what the truth is one cannot tell whats going on, there are two sides to every story, and frankly I think Microsoft is trying to scare users back and make a buck. I have never backed down from a confrontation like this, and I wont let any bully like [Microsoft] say that I'm breaking the law because I found something better.

Note:
Thats just my two cents, you may agree you may not, make your own decision, this is just my feelings on it.
Free thought and the ability to think for one's self is what makes us human, exercise it, even if you think someone may disagree, to think for yourself is the best thing one can do for him/herself.

[crackers]

Originally Posted by pbtpu40

The fact that Microsoft is closed source and trying to file "patent infringements" brings about an interesting point.

Microsoft has not filed any infringement suits against FOSS - they've basically said that FOSS "violates 200+ patents" - while missing a very crucial word: potentially. There are potentially 283 patent infringments, but none have ever been challenged in the court system, so they just remain as "potential." Of note, very few patent infringement suits are that successful.

On the other hand, look at how many infringement suits Microsoft has settled on...

Also one is dealing with software, how does one patent a problem to be solved

That's the fundamental issue with software patents and why there's a lot of press surrounding the issue.

That being said, how does the GPL protect writers from not being caught by something like this.

You're mixing up copyright with patents - the two are not the same. The GPL protects copyrights, which (in software terms) is the source-code.

Frankly, I don't think its gonna do anything more than scare people.

Exactly - FUD.

[Psquared]

Microsoft manipulates the patent system. They rarely sue over patent infringement, but they get sued a lot. They take software code, incorporate into their closed-source and hope they don't get caught. If they get sued they fight the suit and drag it out in court until the other company goes out of business or settles for a nominal sum.

Examples: Netscape and Novell.

[bob]

Damn money-hundgry bastards! Well, if they don't back off, I'm not going to download any more of their products off Kazaa!