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  #1  
Old 28th November 2011, 07:17 AM
hadrons123 Offline
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The BSD discussion -- again

On freeBSD land for around 2 weeks now...

Quote:
uname -a
FreeBSD zeus 9.0-RC2 FreeBSD 9.0-RC2 #0: Sat Nov 12 18:09:11 UTC 2011 root@obrian.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC i386
man.. this FreeBSD is really tough.setting up Arch linux feels so easy now.
Lot of learning on the way.making ntfs-3g to work is still a mystery to me.i am not sure whether its a bug ... ntfs mounting works,but enabling writing support is something i dont know yet..gnome2 is running good.

best things:
i cant understand why it uses so less RAM.i kinda think its good.

most annoying thing:
CPU usage sky rockets when i start playing H.264 / AVC formats.maybe due to my X1400 ATI mobility which doesnt deliver.

i had this itch to try freebsd since i read this article sometime back in last year.
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01
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Last edited by hadrons123; 5th December 2011 at 04:55 AM.
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  #2  
Old 28th November 2011, 11:49 AM
Mariusz W Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrons123 View Post
On freeBSD land for around 2 weeks now... (...)i had this itch to try freebsd since i read this article sometime back in last year.
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01
I commend you for your decision of exploring FreeBSD -- especially if you never had an opportunity to use Unix -- I, for once, spent 15 years using exclusively Unix on a number of different computers, before my first ever experience with Linux. You are broadening this way your horizons in the area of operating systems.

That article by the way must have been there for ages, I think I saw it in one of its earlier versions several years ago. I have to say I don't like that kind of writing style: much of it is nothing but stuffing superficial thoughts into empty phrases. A few pieces of genuine information are easily available elsewhere. I didn't find there anything new for myself, nor did I find a deeper thought worth remembering.
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  #3  
Old 28th November 2011, 12:44 PM
smr54 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

It's been around for years. I'm surprised that hadrons finds it so much more difficult than Arch. I remember when Arch first came out, and there were usually only two or three folks in the irc channel, including Judd Vinet, Arch's creator. He said to me, Well, if you like BSD, I think you'll like Arch.

Some of the BSD documentation gets out of date. For example, the make cleanworld option has been around for years, and I don't think it's made it into UPDATING yet. I haven't used it full time for a few years now, so I'm really not up to date with it, but I believe you can now do binary updates instead of having to go through the whole make world thing, but I don't know if the handbook has been updated to reflect this.

At any rate, @hadrons, keep in mind that that person has his own feelings on the thing, and there are others who could argue equally eloquently in the other direction. The FreeBSD site has a myths page, where one of the myths, according to them, is *BSD is better than (insert other system) and vice versa. Their answer to both is the same

This is user opinion only.
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  #4  
Old 28th November 2011, 02:14 PM
hadrons123 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariusz W
That article by the way must have been there for ages, I think I saw it in one of its earlier versions several years ago. I have to say I don't like that kind of writing style: much of it is nothing but stuffing superficial thoughts into empty phrases. A few pieces of genuine information are easily available elsewhere. I didn't find there anything new for myself, nor did I find a deeper thought worth remembering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smr54 View Post

At any rate, @hadrons, keep in mind that that person has his own feelings on the thing, and there are others who could argue equally eloquently in the other direction. The FreeBSD site has a myths page, where one of the myths, according to them, is *BSD is better than (insert other system) and vice versa. Their answer to both is the same

This is user opinion only.
he sounded like a drunken (FreeBSD) monk.yea kinda fell for it.now i understand that he was talking for himself.

1.udev was taking care of so much stuff in linux and didnt realize it,until i had trouble with hotplugging in freebsd.system froze too many times during reboot,maybe its my fault when i physically uplugged devices when there were errors while unmounting,but still annoying.unplugged lan cable would not allow me to boot, few times.

2.learned to configure xorg.conf. followed all the steps in handbook.But still readablity of webpages or the desktop in general is not that great when compared with linux.

3.BCM wifi support is something i didnt even want to try.

i wasnt expecting anything to work out of the box,but thought someone might have found a solution to hardware troubles and i didnt have to invent the wheel.read some freebsd mailing lists for some issues and found more freeBSD rabid people.but they are very knowledgable.less rant and less noisy freebsd forums and threads are informative and forum members who start the thread have very few posts.maybe they quit FreeBSD as soon as they hitched a trouble... probably didnt find a working solution.

i think people who enjoy computing should have a FreeBSD ride at least once.
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  #5  
Old 28th November 2011, 04:00 PM
smr54 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

There's also PCBSD which gives you a complete GUI experience.
As for wireless, it was actually a FreeBSD developer who first wrote the one for the Atheros card that was giving folks a lot of trouble 3 years ago or so, before the ath5k driver was added. I don't have anything with a Broadcom card but a quick glance at their forums indicates that it is probably supported if you add the bwi-firmware-kmod.

BSD hardware support tends to lag slightly behind Linux's, though not badly. I don't have anything new enough to prove that, it's just a general observation.
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  #6  
Old 28th November 2011, 06:20 PM
hadrons123 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smr54 View Post
There's also PCBSD which gives you a complete GUI experience.
As for wireless, it was actually a FreeBSD developer who first wrote the one for the Atheros card that was giving folks a lot of trouble 3 years ago or so, before the ath5k driver was added. I don't have anything with a Broadcom card but a quick glance at their forums indicates that it is probably supported if you add the bwi-firmware-kmod.

BSD hardware support tends to lag slightly behind Linux's, though not badly. I don't have anything new enough to prove that, it's just a general observation.

PCBSD offers PBI installs.what else is new there,apart from a KDE when compared with freeBSD.

last month i had trouble(lack of knowledge,its not BSD's fault) booting into GUI.now i got into GUI,but still some teething issues with NTFS-3g. x264 playback is sluggish though.i 'm hoping to find a fix for it by next month.
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  #7  
Old 28th November 2011, 07:07 PM
fnj Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smr54 View Post
Some of the BSD documentation gets out of date. For example, the make cleanworld option has been around for years, and I don't think it's made it into UPDATING yet. I haven't used it full time for a few years now, so I'm really not up to date with it, but I believe you can now do binary updates instead of having to go through the whole make world thing, but I don't know if the handbook has been updated to reflect this.
It definitely used to be an adventure to figure out how to do security updates.

But nowadays all it takes is "freebsd-update fetch && freebsd-update install". There is also a freebsd-update syntax which just as easily upgrades you to a whole new release. This is all *fairly* new, but has been around for some number of years and is in the current handbook.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrons123 View Post
On freeBSD land for around 2 weeks now...


man.. this FreeBSD is really tough.setting up Arch linux feels so easy now.
Lot of learning on the way.making ntfs-3g to work is still a mystery to me.i am not sure whether its a bug ... ntfs mounting works,but enabling writing support is something i dont know yet..gnome2 is running good.

best things:
i cant understand why it uses so less RAM.i kinda think its good.

most annoying thing:
CPU usage sky rockets when i start playing H.264 / AVC formats.maybe due to my X1400 ATI mobility which doesnt deliver.

i had this itch to try freebsd since i read this article sometime back in last year.
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01
I installed FreeBSD on a pretty feeble desktop almost a decade ago. There were some adventures learning how to do what seemed like simple things, but really it all set up to a Gnome desktop pretty straightforward. I even had triple boot set up with FreeBSD, linux, and XP at one time. I think I used Boot Commander to get that done.

The machine still runs, with the software as it stood at that time, and nowadays it just blows me away how snappy it runs with a feeble CPU, a slow disk drive, and very limited RAM. The hardware was not at all cutting edge even for that day.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Just out of curiosity, Bob. Does your Firefox in the installed MINT-12 version have up and down buttons on the ends of the vertical scrollbar?
If I might presume to jump in here, my scrollbars are certainly normal. Gnome3 certainly does make demands on video hardware and software; not in terms of performance but in terms of wringing out obscure code paths in the driver. If there are flaws in rendering under Gnome3, it is almost 100% certain that they are due to bugs in the video driver.

My video is Intel Sandy Bridge integrated and is rock solid under any up to date operating system. It doesn't require dinking around with 3rd party binary blobs either. I wouldn't even dream of ever using anything else for video.
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  #8  
Old 28th November 2011, 07:56 PM
hadrons123 Offline
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freebsdfirefox
Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnj View Post
I installed FreeBSD on a pretty feeble desktop almost a decade ago. There were some adventures learning how to do what seemed like simple things, but really it all set up to a Gnome desktop pretty straightforward. I even had triple boot set up with FreeBSD, linux, and XP at one time. I think I used Boot Commander to get that done.
.
i guess everything depends on hardware driver support.the OS might be inherently great.But its driver (which basically depends on the vendor) support ,that too video driver(X1400 ATI) brings the system down to the knees... while playing specific files, like webm.webm eats all the CPU and drags the system as much as .mkv ,flv,mp4,f4v.
the same happens in linux too,but not that often as in FreeBSD.
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  #9  
Old 30th November 2011, 07:54 PM
hadrons123 Offline
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freebsdfirefox
Re: What distro are you trying right now?

FreeBSD. i made few complaints about freebsd in preivous posts.i fixed almost all the issues,now which i understand that the issues are user related and not FreeBSD specific.
happy with BSD now.
i dont know what's equivalent of 'yum update' in FreeBSD,if anyone can tell or show the link that would be really nice.

edit:got it!

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?q...date&sektion=8
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Last edited by hadrons123; 30th November 2011 at 08:03 PM.
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  #10  
Old 30th November 2011, 08:07 PM
smr54 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

That's for FreeBSD-update. You also want portsnap.

Sigh, it really has been years for me, I can't remember the commands off the top of my head...ah, wait, yes I can (Nope, I just remembered fetch, now I'm looking at the man page.)

portsnap fetch extract

the first time takes awhile.

portsnap update

Then it should tell you what ports need updating.

After the first time, it's just portsnap fetch update

Keep in mind that in FreeBSD, the system and the third party stuff is separate. So, for example, updating FreeBSD won't update postfix, you'd update postfix through ports.

Their forums are also useful.
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  #11  
Old 30th November 2011, 08:15 PM
hadrons123 Offline
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freebsdfirefox
Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smr54 View Post
That's for FreeBSD-update. You also want portsnap.

Sigh, it really has been years for me, I can't remember the commands off the top of my head...ah, wait, yes I can (Nope, I just remembered fetch, now I'm looking at the man page.)

portsnap fetch extract

the first time takes awhile.

portsnap update

Then it should tell you what ports need updating.

After the first time, it's just portsnap fetch update

Keep in mind that in FreeBSD, the system and the third party stuff is separate. So, for example, updating FreeBSD won't update postfix, you'd update postfix through ports.

Their forums are also useful.
thank you so much,i should have read the man pages first.shall try your method and post later.
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  #12  
Old 30th November 2011, 08:37 PM
fnj Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hadrons123 View Post
i dont know what's equivalent of 'yum update' in FreeBSD,if anyone can tell or show the link that would be really nice.
AFAIK there isn't one - not a single unified solution in full. You can apply the most recent patches to the kernel and base system by "freebsd-update fetch" followed by "freebsd-update install". After this, "uname -r" will say for example "8.1-RELEASE-p4", where p4 is the patch level.

You can upgrade to a newer release by "freebsd-update -r <new-release> upgrade" followed by "freebsd-update install". For example, if you are at 8.1-RELEASE, you can enter "freebsd-update -r 8.2-RELEASE upgrade". Then after the upgrade completes you will need to patch again.

It took me a while to pin down the steps and syntax, including what you need to put after the -r. I don't have to tell you that using FreeBSD takes more initiative than linux.

What the above doesn't do is touch the ports or binary packages. I think the answer here is portmaster and/or portupgrade. I'm pretty sure you can do it all via binary packages rather than recompiling the ports, the same way you can install binary packages via "pkg_add -r <package>". However, I haven't mastered the syntax to do it, yet.

Last edited by fnj; 30th November 2011 at 08:45 PM.
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  #13  
Old 30th November 2011, 08:43 PM
smr54 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

Well, portsnap pulls in the latest ports, pretty much replacing cvsup or csup for ports.

For updating the system---well, THIS is what I haven't been following. It used to be done by cvsup or csup, recompiling, which could take 20 minutes on a fast machine and hours on a slow one. I'm not quite sure how fully that's been replaced by freebsd-update, which was beginning around the time a job change pretty much took me away from FreeBSD.

One problem is that UPDATING doesn't, or at least, didn't, (haven't checked recently) updated the process of updating. Awkward as that syntax is, the process is towards the end of the file, and only covers running cvsup--in addition, it had you go through the chflags on /usr/obj, with no mention of the newer and much safer make cleanworld.

However, @hadrons, check the man pages for portsnap. Colin Percival tends to write good man pages, and likes them to be clear. I remember making a minor suggestion about freebsd-update when it was first introduced and I think the change was in there the next day.
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  #14  
Old 30th November 2011, 09:00 PM
Dan Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

And ... by way of a none-too-subtle hint ...

http://forums.freebsd.org/

<....>
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  #15  
Old 1st December 2011, 03:09 AM
hadrons123 Offline
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Re: What distro are you trying right now?

sorry dan.wouldnt ask BSD support questions anymore.
thanks smr54 and fnj.i searched more and found this thread and it helped me.
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=9225
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