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  #1  
Old 6th June 2011, 05:05 PM
afrevenant Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Angry F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Is it possible to continue to use Gnome2, easily and conveniently without a serious amount of hacks, in F15 and forward? Why wasn't this GNOME3/GNOME2 given as a simple toggle option to pick at install time?

GNOME3 is a serious change from the norm, for no reason other than it can be changed. I would like to still run GNOME2, I use Fedora/GNOME on a daily basis for my production desktops. I have a setup that works well, I have no need to learn something new. I have no interest in the changes being forced down.

I will be dumping F15 and going back to F14, maybe never to return to Fedora.

Is anybody forking GNOME2 to keep it maintained? (DWARF?) I liked the interface it provided, it is good and decent. GNOME3 may be interesting, but it isn't the same thing. This is kind of like a Microsoft forced change, made not because the users wanted it, but because a small group of people thought it would be cool (or in the case of microsoft, to prove the new OS is different--look, flashy new UI... now pay us money for the upgrade).

Change for the sake of Change is never good. GNOME2 was just reaching a point where it was tight, well integrated and stable, so why are we throwing it out? It is kind of like GM creating a concept car with no side doors, a door in the back that you have to go push buttons on the front then stroke the antenna a few times just to get it to open, and the steering wheel is replaced with a rudder. Then they say hey, this is the 2011 car and we stopped production on everything else, because its cool, and you don't know what you want, we do. So DEAL with it.

And I do know, of the four people on my team that have installed it, every single one of us gives GNOME3 a serious thumbs down and we are all reverting it. This is the worst thing I have ever seen forced down the pipe in OSS for some time now. Fortunately, it is OSS, and much like when OpenOffice failed to meet the needs of the community and Libre was forked, I am hoping the community will see it for what it is and fork GNOME.
  #2  
Old 6th June 2011, 05:09 PM
leigh123linux
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linuxredhatfirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrevenant View Post
Is it possible to continue to use Gnome2, easily and conveniently without a serious amount of hacks, in F15 and forward? Why wasn't this GNOME3/GNOME2 given as a simple toggle option to pick at install time?

GNOME3 is a serious change from the norm, for no reason other than it can be changed. I would like to still run GNOME2, I use Fedora/GNOME on a daily basis for my production desktops. I have a setup that works well, I have no need to learn something new. I have no interest in the changes being forced down.

I will be dumping F15 and going back to F14, maybe never to return to Fedora.

Is anybody forking GNOME2 to keep it maintained? (DWARF?) I liked the interface it provided, it is good and decent. GNOME3 may be interesting, but it isn't the same thing. This is kind of like a Microsoft forced change, made not because the users wanted it, but because a small group of people thought it would be cool (or in the case of microsoft, to prove the new OS is different--look, flashy new UI... now pay us money for the upgrade).

Change for the sake of Change is never good. GNOME2 was just reaching a point where it was tight, well integrated and stable, so why are we throwing it out? It is kind of like GM creating a concept car with no side doors, a door in the back that you have to go push buttons on the front then stroke the antenna a few times just to get it to open, and the steering wheel is replaced with a rudder. Then they say hey, this is the 2011 car and we stopped production on everything else, because its cool, and you don't know what you want, we do. So DEAL with it.

And I do know, of the four people on my team that have installed it, every single one of us gives GNOME3 a serious thumbs down and we are all reverting it. This is the worst thing I have ever seen forced down the pipe in OSS for some time now. Fortunately, it is OSS, and much like when OpenOffice failed to meet the needs of the community and Libre was forked, I am hoping the community will see it for what it is and fork GNOME.

No.


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Quote:
I would like to still run GNOME2, I use Fedora/GNOME on a daily basis for my production desktops. I have a setup that works well, I have no need to learn something new. I have no interest in the changes being forced down.
I changed to SL6.

https://www.scientificlinux.org/news/sl60
  #3  
Old 6th June 2011, 05:20 PM
razgadka Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

I can appreciate all the effort spent in developing a friendly user interface for the new GNOME desktop, but unfortunately I don't think enough effort was spent on discovering how the user community uses the desktop. For me I have used Fedora as a "get work done" desktop. With this recent change I find the new interface a too steep learning curve to reasonably suffer for a work system, for a home a hobby user the new desktop could be managed in stride. I hoped there would be a simple "revert to classic" to restore my traditional doc, minimize/maximize buttons, workspaces view and general feel and function of the 2.x version of gnome. I will wait quire some time before moving to Fedora 15.
  #4  
Old 6th June 2011, 05:28 PM
leigh123linux
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linuxredhatfirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by razgadka View Post
I can appreciate all the effort spent in developing a friendly user interface for the new GNOME desktop, but unfortunately I don't think enough effort was spent on discovering how the user community uses the desktop. For me I have used Fedora as a "get work done" desktop. With this recent change I find the new interface a too steep learning curve to reasonably suffer for a work system, for a home a hobby user the new desktop could be managed in stride. I hoped there would be a simple "revert to classic" to restore my traditional doc, minimize/maximize buttons, workspaces view and general feel and function of the 2.x version of gnome. I will wait quire some time before moving to Fedora 15.
It is possible to tweak it a bit

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=263006

But it isn't the same IMO.
  #5  
Old 6th June 2011, 06:30 PM
afrevenant Offline
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linuxfedorafirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Nice to see the forums here are so friendly.
  #6  
Old 6th June 2011, 06:31 PM
bob Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

My apologies for jumping to conclusions. We're human and it's a bit warm today. Ugly thoughts and all that. Carry on.
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  #7  
Old 6th June 2011, 08:44 PM
jaymann Offline
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Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

I'm waiting for
http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/26/project-bluebubble/
before going to fc15
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  #8  
Old 6th June 2011, 11:20 PM
TheNosh Offline
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linuxchrome
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

You can get Xfce to act like Gnome 2 for the most part. In many ways, I prefer it. That's probably the closest you'll get to keeping Gnome 2.
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  #9  
Old 8th June 2011, 01:39 PM
oldoak Offline
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linuxopera
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Fedora 15 for me also is "broken" and I reinstalled F14. I have been with Fedora since the start and am now considering changing distributions! I am SO disappointed!
  #10  
Old 10th June 2011, 04:36 AM
osschar Offline
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linuxfirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Hi,

Yes, a bit of a shocker for me, too

I use fvwm and used to run gnome-settings/appearance-props on F14 to get icons & fonts to firefox and thunderbird.

Anybody knows how I could get the settings to just those two applications, without running gnome-shell / panel / session?

I guess it's time to drown sorrow in beer

Cheers,
Matevz
  #11  
Old 10th June 2011, 04:43 AM
TheNosh Offline
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linuxchrome
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldoak View Post
Fedora 15 for me also is "broken" and I reinstalled F14. I have been with Fedora since the start and am now considering changing distributions! I am SO disappointed!
You'd be better off changing desktop environments than distributions. Gnome 2 is at its end of life. It won't be too long before it's gone from every distribution.

You can probably keep it for the next almost the next seven years if you switch to Scientific Linux, but beyond that, it's disappearing.
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  #12  
Old 10th June 2011, 08:21 AM
leigh123linux
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Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNosh View Post
You'd be better off changing desktop environments than distributions. Gnome 2 is at its end of life. It won't be too long before it's gone from every distribution.

You can probably keep it for the next almost the next seven years if you switch to Scientific Linux, but beyond that, it's disappearing.
I could probably name a dozen distro's that will use gnome 2 for the next 5 years, and there will be plenty other distros that will offer both.
  #13  
Old 10th June 2011, 09:01 AM
sej7278 Offline
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Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh123linux View Post
I could probably name a dozen distro's that will use gnome 2 for the next 5 years, and there will be plenty other distros that will offer both.
which is why i'm strongly considering switching to debian 6 after 10+ years as a redhat guy, i think debian will be winning a lot of ubuntu refugees too.

how's it going using SL6 as a desktop? seems like a pretty major step back to me, although at least you're rid of the 6 monthly rebuild rubbish which is killing fedora.
  #14  
Old 10th June 2011, 09:25 AM
Xavior Offline
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Lightbulb Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrevenant View Post
Is it possible to continue to use Gnome2, easily and conveniently without a serious amount of hacks, in F15 and forward? Why wasn't this GNOME3/GNOME2 given as a simple toggle option to pick at install time?

GNOME3 is a serious change from the norm, for no reason other than it can be changed. I would like to still run GNOME2, I use Fedora/GNOME on a daily basis for my production desktops. I have a setup that works well, I have no need to learn something new. I have no interest in the changes being forced down.
It's ok buddy, I think the words you are looking for is... "It Sucks!"
you can say it, most people seem to think just because a software developer created it, it must be better...
believe me I have been working on PCs since before most of these developers could walk,
and some of the stupid things they create sometime just make me laugh at how brainless someone could be,
it's like that oxymoron "you are the stupidest smart person I have ever seen" ;p

Best of luck man I know where you're at, with all the real problems Linux has they managed to completely skip fixing anything important and screwed up a rock solid interface that was easy to understand.

~THINKING
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  #15  
Old 10th June 2011, 09:26 AM
leigh123linux
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linuxredhatfirefox
Re: F15 and Gnome2 - Fork?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sej7278 View Post
which is why i'm strongly considering switching to debian 6 after 10+ years as a redhat guy, i think debian will be winning a lot of ubuntu refugees too.

how's it going using SL6 as a desktop? seems like a pretty major step back to me, although at least you're rid of the 6 monthly rebuild rubbish which is killing fedora.

What am I missing?

Code:
[leigh@main_pc ~]$ rpm -qa kernel\* *\nvidia\* vlc\* ffmpeg\* *\mplayer\* firefox\* qbittorrent\* |sort
ffmpeg-0.7-0.1.rc1.el6.x86_64
ffmpeg-devel-0.7-0.1.rc1.el6.x86_64
ffmpeg-libs-0.7-0.1.rc1.el6.x86_64
firefox-3.6.17-1.el6_0.x86_64
firefox4-4.0.1-2.el6.leigh123linux.x86_64
gnome-mplayer-1.0.3-2.puias6.x86_64
gnome-mplayer-common-1.0.3-2.puias6.x86_64
gnome-mplayer-nautilus-1.0.3-2.puias6.x86_64
kernel-2.6.39.1-1.el6.x86_64
kernel-3.0-0.rc2.git0.1.el6.x86_64
kernel-devel-2.6.39.1-1.el6.x86_64
kernel-devel-3.0-0.rc2.git0.1.el6.x86_64
kernel-headers-3.0-0.rc2.git0.1.el6.x86_64
kmod-nvidia-2.6.39.1-1.el6.x86_64-270.41.19-2.el6.x86_64
kmod-nvidia-3.0-0.rc2.git0.1.el6.x86_64-270.41.19-2.el6.x86_64
mplayer-1.0-0.123.20110412svn.el6.x86_64
mplayer-common-1.0-0.123.20110412svn.el6.x86_64
mplayer-gui-1.0-0.123.20110412svn.el6.x86_64
mplayer-tools-1.0-0.123.20110412svn.el6.x86_64
nvidia-settings-1.0-9.el6.x86_64
nvidia-xconfig-1.0-7.el6.x86_64
qbittorrent-2.8.1-1.el6.leigh123linux.x86_64
qbittorrent-nox-2.8.1-1.el6.leigh123linux.x86_64
smplayer-0.6.9-2.el6.x86_64
vlc-1.1.9-2.el6.leigh123linux.x86_64
vlc-core-1.1.9-2.el6.leigh123linux.x86_64
vlc-extras-1.1.9-2.el6.leigh123linux.x86_64
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-270.41.19-1.el6.x86_64
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-devel-270.41.19-1.el6.x86_64
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs-270.41.19-1.el6.i686
xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs-270.41.19-1.el6.x86_64
apart from gnome 3
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