[SOLVED] Installation Fedora 13 (32-bits) - Dual Boot with Win XP - confusing!

[TheForsaken]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post in this forum.

First of all, I'm a big fan of Ubuntu but I wanted to try something else, unfortunately it was bad experience. I've tried a lot to fix it myself but I couldn't so I thought to try this forum and see whether I'll get my problem solved or not.

Computer Specification: Please check my signature below.

What I'm trying to do?: Install Fedora 13 (32-bits) on my PC. Windows XP is already installed so I'm dual booting with Fedora 13.

Installation type: Live CD.

Setup/Installation plan:
1- Windows XP is installed on an IDE HDD (40GB) as the main OS.
2- Install Fedora 13 on an External HDD (20GB) as the secondary OS.
3- Each OS will have its own HDD.
4- Installing Fedora 13 LXDE.
5- Installing Fedora 13 Gnome instead of LXDE. I thought there's something wrong with LXDE but I got the same problem (will explain it soon in details).

Method of installation:
1- Creating a Custom Layout or Modifying the Default Layout.
2- Use All Space.

I have tried them both. Nothing happened.


Boot Loader Configuration: I was following every single word in this guide: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/...ootloader.html

I simply followed the 2nd scheme where it says "Install the boot loader in the first sector of your boot partition".

Problem Description:

First of all, I was reading almost everything in the Installation Guide (http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/...llation_Guide/) but couldn't figure out how to fix the problem.
My problem starts exactly after the installation process. When I have to reboot/restart my PC, I had these two scenario:

A- Either I could boot into Fedora without choosing which OS to boot from (there's no GRUB).
B- Or I could boot into Windows XP without choosing Fedora from a list.

For more details, you need to know that it happens precisely when I change the "Boot Sequence" of my HDDs from BIOS. Now, if we're going to apply this fact on the above to scenarios, the output will be:

A) If the External HDD has the first priority and the internal IDE HDD has the second priority, then Fedora will boot without showing the GRUB so that I can't even choose between Windows XP and Fedora.

B) If the internal HDD has the first priority and the external HDD has the second priority, then Windows XP will boot without having the option to choose between XP and Fedora.

So, basically, it's all related to which HDD has the first priority.

I have tried many times to install, format, re-install, format, etc but same thing happened.
From what I read and from my simply understanding, I think the problem is:
1- Either I'm installing the boot loader in the wrong place. My guess is I have to install it in the MBR of the external HDD as long as it's (the external HDD) has no other OS except Fedora
2- Or I have to upgrade GRUB to GRUB2 but I'm not sure how? and I'm not sure whether Fedora supports GRUB2 or not?

Just to let you know, I'm following "exactly the same" procedure to install Ubuntu on my external HDD and keep XP on my internal HDD and I have NO problem at all. GRUB2 gives both options (Ubuntu and XP) no matter which HDD has the first priority and which one has the second.

So, I'm having problems only with Fedora 13.

I guess I listed each and every single info you guys might need for a better understanding to my problem. Hope I could find someone who could possibly help me.

Many thanks!

[glennzo]

Didn't read the gude you followed but read every word you've written here. The first thing that comes to mind is that the Fedora installers these days seem to like to set timeout=0 and include hiddenmenu in grub.conf. You've been around Ubuntu for a while so you know what you have to do to see if my suspicion is valid.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

Didn't read the gude you followed but read every word you've written here. The first thing that comes to mind is that the Fedora installers these days seem to like to set timeout=0 and include hiddenmenu in grub.conf. You've been around Ubuntu for a while so you know what you have to do to see if my suspicion is valid.

There's one confusing thing in that guide. It's very useful though but I couldn't really understand this part:

"7.22.1. Advanced Boot Loader Configuration
Now that you have chosen which boot loader to install, you can also determine where you want the boot loader to be installed. You may install the boot loader in one of two places:

* The master boot record (MBR) — This is the recommended place to install a boot loader, unless the MBR already starts another operating system loader, such as System Commander. The MBR is a special area on your hard drive that is automatically loaded by your computer's BIOS, and is the earliest point at which the boot loader can take control of the boot process. If you install it in the MBR, when your machine boots, GRUB presents a boot prompt. You can then boot Fedora or any other operating system that you have configured the boot loader to boot.

* The first sector of your boot partition — This is recommended if you are already using another boot loader on your system. In this case, your other boot loader takes control first. You can then configure that boot loader to start GRUB, which then boots Fedora. "

It doesn't say where exactly to install Fedora. I still suspect that I have to use the first option not the second while it's clearly mentioned that if there's another OS in the system already, then one should use the 2nd scheme (The first sector of your boot partition — This is recommended if you are already using another boot loader on your system.).

I read some where that I could press "shift" to get the boot menu. I can't try it now though because I have Kubuntu with XP. I don't want to install Fedora again unless I make sure I won't get the same issue.
I've been formatting and installing more than 10 times and every time, I get exactly the same issue.

By the way, I have no clue even with Ubuntu how to change the timeout settings. I know how to do it in Windows but I guess I need to use the Terminal with Ubuntu and I'm still very beginner with Terminal.

Thanks!

[glennzo]

Boot Fedora and open a terminal. Log in as root. Type nano /boot/grub/grub.conf. In that file you will find a line that reads timeout=x where x is likely 0. Change that to 10 or more. The number represents seconds before the default OS will be booted if there is no keypress to interrupt the countdown. Next, remove the line that reads hiddenmenu. Save the file and exit. Reboot. You will now see the menu and it will countdown for the number of seconds that you specified in the timeout line. You should also see Other listed as a menu option. That is Windows.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

Boot Fedora and open a terminal. Log in as root. Type nano /boot/grub/grub.conf. In that file you will find a line that reads timeout=x where x is likely 0. Change that to 10 or more. The number represents seconds before the default OS will be booted if there is no keypress to interrupt the countdown. Next, remove the line that reads hiddenmenu. Save the file and exit. Reboot. You will now see the menu and it will countdown for the number of seconds that you specified in the timeout line. You should also see Other listed as a menu option. That is Windows.

Glennzo, if I'm not mistaken, I think after I installed Fedora 13 (Gnome version), I got GRUB menu and when I chose Windows XP, nothing happened. I rebooted, logged in to BIOS, changed the priority of my HDD so IDE HDD was first then the external HDD became second, saved, rebooted and I was able to login to XP but of course there was no menu to choose Fedora 13.

After that, I removed Fedora and installed Kubuntu to try the KDE version.

Any idea about what I posted from that guide? it's really confusing. Shall I try to install the boot loader in the MBR of the external HDD? or that doesn't matter?

I really don't know what's going on.

Thank you

P.S.
I just remembered that, that's why I didn't mention it earlier.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 PM CDT ----------

1) I'd like to add the partitions layout that I chose/did during installation.

If I remember correctly, I made 4 partitions (one of the different scenarios that I've tried):

dev/sdb1 = /boot
dev/sdb2 = /
dev/sdb5 = /swap
dev/sd6 = /home

Same problem and nothing changed.

Also, I chose the first option as I mentioned in my first post in this thread but that did not change the fact that I have to change the HDD priority in order to get either to Fedora or XP.

Thought to add this to make it extra clear.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

2) I just read this: http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f13.html
I want to quote this part:

"For Boot Loader

* If you have a blank harddrive or wish Fedora to be your Primary Operating System, then leave the default options here. This also works for dual booting with other systems (ex: Windows).
* If you wish to preserve Windows as your primary operating system, then install Grub on the / partition, NOT the MBR. To do this, select Change Device on the Install boot loader screen and install to First sector of boot partition. I use Bootpart from Windows 2000/XP to load Linux. An alternative to Bootpart is the NT OS Loader + Linux mini-HOWTO (also Grub Win2K Howto). Vista or Windows 7 users can use the Vista Boot Manager following the Port25 Vista Boot Manager Howto. I recommend this so you do not corrupt your Windows installation in a Dual-Boot environment. This method does take more work. If you do not choose this, the default option using the MBR will still work. "

Well, this is still confusing as I assume the writer was talking about ONE HDD installed in the system, not 2 HDDs or more. Main problem with many guides is writers always talk about the default option and they don't mention other scenario. Many users these days have more than one HDD.

In my case, I did exactly what the above article said (which is almost the same as the article in the Installation Guide - http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/...ootloader.html ) but nothing changed.

I just need someone who could confirm whether the above mentioned scheme is applicable for all scenarios where more than ONE HDD is installed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you!

[glennzo]

You know what? Start by backing up any important Windows data before you go any further.

You've totally lost me otherwise. Fedora, Windows, Kubuntu, external drive, internal drive, BIOS order. I think you're trying to do too much all at once.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

You know what? Start by backing up any important Windows data before you go any further.

You've totally lost me otherwise. Fedora, Windows, Kubuntu, external drive, internal drive, BIOS order. I think you're trying to do too much all at once.

I have a backup image from Windows and I already use it.

I'm sorry if that seemed too much but let's make it easier.

1- Forget Kubuntu.
2- How to install Fedora 13 and Dual Boot with XP (installed first before Fedora 13) without problem - I explained my problem in details, I can't do better than that.
3- I couldn't understand that part I quoted from the guide about installing the boot loader.

I'm not trying to make it hard, I'm trying to simplify the problem so you or anyone else could understand.

Thank you!

[glennzo]

A- Either I could boot into Fedora without choosing which OS to boot from (there's no GRUB).

Get Fedora installed so that your system is back to this point. From there all you'll need to do is edit a few boot loader parameters and you should be able to boot both Fedora and Windows.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

Get Fedora installed so that your system is back to this point. From there all you'll need to do is edit a few boot loader parameters and you should be able to boot both Fedora and Windows.

Glennzo, do you mind telling me which "boot loader parameters" do I have to edit before anything?

Thank you!

[glennzo]

Once Fedora is installed and working you can edit the boot loader to add or edit the Windows entry in the menu and you can change several other things like how long the timeout is and whether the menu is hidden or not, you can make changes to partitions if an OS fails to boot, etc. Many options available to get booting sorted. The way I see it is you need to do this one step at a time. Install Fedora and make sure that works, then worry about other things.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

Once Fedora is installed and working you can edit the boot loader to add or edit the Windows entry in the menu and you can change several other things like how long the timeout is and whether the menu is hidden or not, you can make changes to partitions if an OS fails to boot, etc. Many options available to get booting sorted. The way I see it is you need to do this one step at a time. Install Fedora and make sure that works, then worry about other things.

Buddy, trust me, I did that few days ago and as I mentioned earlier, I was able to see the GRUB Menu after I installed Fedora 13 (Gnome version) but whenever I choose Windows XP, nothing happened.

I can add "Windows XP" from the installation and I know how to do that. I made it and it worked, I mean Windows XP was added in GRUB "BUT" Windows XP could NOT load at all. So, I rebooted my PC, went to BIOS, changed HDD priority and only then I was able to load "Windows XP" but of course I couldn't boot from Fedora 13.

That's the whole story.

I don't see any point to install Fedora 13 yet again while I won't be able to load both Windows and Fedora at the same time.

P.S.
I don't face the same issue with Ubuntu, only with Fedora.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM CDT ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM CDT ----------

Originally Posted by glennzo

Once Fedora is installed and working you can edit the boot loader to add or edit the Windows entry in the menu and you can change several other things like how long the timeout is and whether the menu is hidden or not, you can make changes to partitions if an OS fails to boot, etc. Many options available to get booting sorted. The way I see it is you need to do this one step at a time. Install Fedora and make sure that works, then worry about other things.

I was reading this thread and looks like the guy who started the thread (http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showth...+configuration) has exactly the same opinion of mine.

I think my guess is correct about the Boot Loader. I'm going to install Fedora 13 yet again and will report what would happen.

I won't install the boot loader in "The first sector of your boot partition", I'm going to leave the default option so that anaconda will install Fedora 13 on the MBR of the 2nd HDD which is external anyway and there is NO other OS over there.

Thanks

[glennzo]

Buddy, trust me, I did that few days ago and as I mentioned earlier, I was able to see the GRUB Menu after I installed Fedora 13 (Gnome version) but whenever I choose Windows XP, nothing happened.

I can add "Windows XP" from the installation and I know how to do that. I made it and it worked, I mean Windows XP was added in GRUB "BUT" Windows XP could NOT load at all. So, I rebooted my PC, went to BIOS, changed HDD priority and only then I was able to load "Windows XP" but of course I couldn't boot from Fedora 13.

Buddy? Anyhow, you seem to be missing the point. It is very common to install Fedora along side Windows only to have Windows not boot, or in the words of many newcomers "Windows no longer works!". Then they panic. Usually the problem is caused by the bootloader looking at the wrong partition when trying to boot Windows. This is fixed with a simple edit to the bootloader and this is where I'm trying to steer you.

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

Buddy? Anyhow, you seem to be missing the point. It is very common to install Fedora along side Windows only to have Windows not boot, or in the words of many newcomers "Windows no longer works!". Then they panic. Usually the problem is caused by the bootloader looking at the wrong partition when trying to boot Windows. This is fixed with a simple edit to the bootloader and this is where I'm trying to steer you.

Buddy = my friend. I'm sorry if such words are not allowed

Anyway, I removed Kubuntu and I'm online from the Live CD of Fedora 13.

I guess you did not read the last part of my previous post. I'm trying to do what I think it's correct and will report back.

I don't need to panic I could easily install Ubuntu and save time and energy but I hate simple things, I always look for new challanges

I've been waiting for you to comment back on the boot loader installation option since the beginning of my post but it's ok, as I said, I'm going to install it the way I think it should be.

If we want to follow the installation guide (I hope I could find the one who wrote that becauase he/she has to make it extra clear) then again, we need to make a guess becausae it's not clear. Sorry, I don't want to repeat myself but I'm sure many will face the same issue.

I'm going to install Fedora 13 now and will report back. Hope my problem would be solved

[glennzo]

Buddy is allowed. No big deal. Just let the installer do it's thing. It should put the bootloader on the MBR of the hard disk. What does the documentation that you've read say about installing Fedora on a USB drive with regard to the bootloader?

[TheForsaken]

Originally Posted by glennzo

Buddy is allowed. No big deal. Just let the installer do it's thing. It should put the bootloader on the MBR of the hard disk. What does the documentation that you've read say about installing Fedora on a USB drive with regard to the bootloader?

This is what I did:
http://i52.tinypic.com/20z6uir.jpg

And ... I got the same result.
1- Installation of Fedora 13 is done.
2- PC restarted.
3- Booting done.
4- Got the GRUB menu.
5- Got two options to choose from (Fedora 13 and XP as the default system - I chose that).
6- When I boot into Fedora 13, everything is fine. I mean I can boot into Fedora 13.
7- When I choose WinXP from the GRUB menu, all what I got is blank screen with a flashing cursor on the top left corner of the screen.
8- I restarted my PC.
9- Entered BIOS
10- I changed the sequence of HDD priority so that Maxtor IDE HDD became first (WinXP installed there) and Samsung USB HDD became the second (where Fedora 13 is installed).
11- Restart.
12- No GRUB, my PC booted to WinXP and that's all.


I thought if I would install the Boot Loader in the MBR of the USB HDD, that would fix the problem but looks like it did not.

Well, I've checked that guide many times and unfortunately, nothing is mentioned about installing on a second HDD (whether it's USB, IDE or SATA).

I don't know what else to do?