Root User

tester2007 · #1 26th June 2009, 05:29 PM

I know that there have been some changes between Fedora 9 and 10 as far as root user is concern. I haven't try F11 yet so I cannot say. When you search the web you can see that a lot of people are trying to find out how to use the root user under F10. Even of you manage to login, some applications will not work warning you that you have "too much" privileges. Many experts say: "you not supposed to", "you shouldn't do that", "it's not good for you". Nobody ever say why? Maybe experts really don't know why and they just repeat the things that they hear. Is Fedora crowd among them?

I know a lot of things is bad for you. Some people shouldn't smoke, some shouldn't drink. But I wouldn't like if someone infringe these rights on me like during prohibition. I want to have freedom to decide what is good for me.

I WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE ROOT USER WHEN I WANT TO. These are the rights of superuser as long as UNIX/LINUX was invented. I don't want Fedora or Gnome or anybody else tell me what is good for me and force into their way. If we had a LINUX constitution, that would be unconstitutional.

Please, note that I am not forcing anyone else to logging as root. I am simply defending the rights that were there for years since Red Hat started.

CSchwangler · #2 26th June 2009, 05:48 PM

Why are you complaining? There are documented steps to work around it

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Enabli...isplay_Manager

Fedora places a special focus on security, which I think is a good idea, and thats why root login is disabled.

tester2007 · #3 26th June 2009, 06:10 PM

I am complaining about the changes that I don't like! I am defending rights to use root user. I want "root" to be a superuser as is intend to. So, root should be able to run anything without a question.

Even when you login as root after changes to "/etc/pam.d/gdm" some applications will not run.
For example, "Add/Remove Software" will not run.

In previous versions, you could enable 'root user' through user manager. 'Root' would then appear on the login menu. All applications would run OK.

CSchwangler · #4 26th June 2009, 06:18 PM

I probably should have asked my question in a different way:

Why are you complaining in this forum?

We are normal users and you should ask the developers why they don't want root to access the desktop. And if certain applications are not working if you are logged in as root, it would probably best to file a bug report, wouldn't it?

tester2007 · #5 26th June 2009, 06:43 PM

I apologize if this is not right forum. I am speaking out (which I do very rarely) because I think this is not a bug. For example, the application would start, warn you about to much privileges and exit. This is a part of new feature of Fedora. It hasn't been like this before.

I am an UNIX/LINUX user since 1984 and I have never got in trouble because I was using root user. But there is this tendency to marginalize the use of superuser. For example, if I am a superuser, a "king of the castle", I should be able to do absolutely anything I want to. Nobody should put any special code to check for root in "pam.d/gdm" or any other place. To me such doing defeats the purpose of superuser.

giany · #6 26th June 2009, 06:53 PM

Why don`t you make your own Linux distro with root that can do whatever he wants in X? My opinion is that this thing is a good thing..you need root then open a terminal and su - . Its easy.

tester2007 · #7 26th June 2009, 07:09 PM

To: giany.

You could have told me " love it or leave it". But then what is the purpose of a forum? Either I have a problem to get my point across or you missing the point (I know very well how to use sudo and su).

We all know that from command shell I can use root. My point is that we should not minimize any superuser rights in the GUI as well.

robert-e · #8 26th June 2009, 07:37 PM

I ran into this sort of thing yesterday. The "network printing" on my wife's laptop went "up-*****" last week, and I went to fix it last night. I first tried to use the CUPS administration utility, both in Firefox and in Konqueror, and it would not let me manage (or even delete) existing printers. I then tried to use the KDE printer setup utility; it failed; want the root password, and when supplied, it did not accept it, claiming wrong password. So that method was out. I tried in a "su -" root terminal, and attempted both the previous methods...no joy either.
I finally logged out, and logged back in as root..accepted root password okay, and then found I could use either CUPS or the KDE printer utility to manage/delete/setup printers. Oh yes...I also had a look at the printer conf file, but unlike those produced in Gnome, it was not something I would want to tinker with using the CLI.

Bottom line for me: If I was not able to log in as root to fix that printing problem, I would have been asked to re-install XP. I would not have liked to do that, but I would have. To do otherwise would have brought consequences that I don't want to think about.

Now I understand that if I knew more about Linux/Fedora I could have likely fixed whatever needed without a root GUI, but I am not there yet. Here is the main point: I WOULD SOONER REINSTALL (FEDORA) IF I SCREW UP USING ROOT GUI, RATHER THAN RE-INSTALL WINDOWS. (capital letters for emphasis)

Regards,
Bob

sonoran · #9 26th June 2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tester2007

Many experts say: "you not supposed to", "you shouldn't do that", "it's not good for you". Nobody ever say why? Maybe experts really don't know why and they just repeat the things that they hear. Is Fedora crowd among them?

No, we are real experts here.

This link explains why GTK+ (gui) programs should not be run with root privileges:
http://www.gtk.org/setuid.html

And this is from the "GNOME Programming Guidelines" by Federico Mena Quintero:

Quote:

"Under no circumstance create a GTK+ program that is setuid root. The GTK+ and
GNOME libraries are big and complex, and they have not been audited for secu-
rity."

JN4OldSchool · #10 26th June 2009, 07:52 PM

Quit whining and just switch distros. That is the only way to make a real statement.

robert-e · #11 26th June 2009, 08:18 PM

Sean,

Quote:

Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool

Quit whining and just switch distros. That is the only way to make a real statement.

Heh..The only distro that "she" would let me switch her to is Windows XP. Not going there if I can help it.

On another note: "whining"???: you sure have been "stirring the pot" the last few day.

Best regards,
Bob

JN4OldSchool · #12 26th June 2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert-e

Sean,

Heh..The only distro that "she" would let me switch her to is Windows XP. Not going there if I can help it.

On another note: "whining"???: you sure have been "stirring the pot" the last few day.

Best regards,
Bob

Hey Bob,

That was directed at the OP, not at you. You have enough sense to know this already and you have used other distros. We both know that Fedora just is what it is and no one here is going to change that. I feel for the OP, I really do. While I agree with the not running as root part I also feel that Fedora has no business preventing this in the first place. But, my opinion is neither here nor there. It is a free product that you use with no guarantees regarding quality or satisfaction. The answer for the OP is simple; go elsewhere. I did. I found Arch and love it. It is current, transparent, does not coddle the user...it is what Linux is SUPPOSED to be. And I can log in as root if I darn well please.

As a footnote, I have been playing with F11 and find it a great release. I could happily use it full time. I wont though because I have found something I feel is better.

Stirring the pot? Nah, I am just grumpy because I am looking at around 5 chapters of reading, a 20 question quiz and a 5 page three source research paper all due by Sunday midnight and I am procrastinating on it.

stefan1975 · #13 26th June 2009, 08:35 PM

*sigh* another root user thread? could we not just sticky one of the previous kazillion ones?

robert-e · #14 26th June 2009, 08:43 PM

Yeah Stefan,
I think the "root user" thing is not going to go away any time soon. Too many old-timers, and old newbies like me are just crusty enough to voice their annoyance. Yet, as in politics; if you don't complain, they think you like what they are doing. So perhaps in that sense, these threads are a good thing.
I suppose that just like in politics: if you don't like what OP post, no one is making you read them; and certainly, no is making you post replies.
That is the great thing about fedoraforums: the devs don't listen??, so what we post does not harm anyone. Of course, one should always be polite; rudeness is universally distasteful.

Regards,
Bob

JN4OldSchool · #15 26th June 2009, 08:53 PM

Well, in that case the fact that you cannot log in as root by default sucks eggs!!! It is stupid. It does not matter that you can "put it back" it should never have been taken away!!! x zapping should be enabled also. A few distros are overriding the brilliance of the xorg devs and reseting this to be default. The sad part of this one is the time you need this to be enabled it is too late to do anything, you have to do a cold restart. Instead it makes more sense that the few...what is it, emacs?...ham handed emacs users disable this. Same for LVM!!! What, in the name of everything Linux, is the logic behind THIS default? LVM is great, it is an awesome technology. Fedora should contain it. Just not as a default. We are home desktop users, most of us have single drive laptops now. Fedora is NOT RHEL!!!

How's that Bob? I can rant on but most of the rest is just personal stuff. But I think my above complaints pretty much nail user consensus. It sure feels good to vent, but I dont think it will get us anywhere. The Fedora guys have their own ideas about what they want Fedora to be...and I dont think that, in the end, that is necessarily a bad thing. Like I said in previous posts, there are many distros available. There is nothing that special about Fedora, it is just Linux.