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  #1  
Old 7th November 2008, 07:01 AM
dumbunny Offline
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WinXp NTFS - Fedora failure to load

I tried Ubuntu and it would not see my wireless DSL windows driver. Now I bought a book with a Fedora disk and have discovered that Fedora won't load to a NTFS drive with 60GB of free space. Am I SOL (simply out of luck)? Thanks, in advance, for your input.
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  #2  
Old 7th November 2008, 07:14 AM
JohnVV Online
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that depends if that 60 gigs is a blank/unformatted partition or if it formated as MS ntfs
linux can not install on the windows proprietary NTFS partition .
the installer should have a setting to select what partitions to install on
see the fedora documentation for Fedora 9
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f9/en_US/

what version of Fedora is on that disk
Fedora 9
Fedora 8
Fedora 7
Fedora 6

Fedora 10 is due to be released in a few weeks .
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  #3  
Old 7th November 2008, 04:21 PM
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Thank you for your help. The DVD goes to my C drive by default. It doesn't appear to me to see the seecond hard drive. Both drives are NTFS. I need to reformat the D drive as fat32 and learn how to get the DVD to see the D drive. Did I understand what you told me correctly?
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Old 7th November 2008, 07:50 PM
JohnVV Online
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Quote:
I need to reformat D drive as fat32
a word of advice DO NOT use the 1995 ( year ) Fat 32 format
unless you MUST use it for some OLD os ( like win 98)

-- edited later --
you might want to check out
"SystemRescueCd"
http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page

it includes a partition tool called gparted

and the disk can come in handy
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Last edited by JohnVV; 7th November 2008 at 08:06 PM.
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  #5  
Old 7th November 2008, 08:14 PM
dumbunny Offline
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Thanks again John,

I will take your advice and not try to reformat the D drive to fat32. A search on Google earlier said the same and confirms that your thinking is correct.

The book came with fedora 8 and instructions on upgrading that are useless as the program doesn't load. I downloaded the preview version of Fedora 10 and it behaved like version 8.

I am considering giving up on installing Fedora as it doesn't work with NTFS. I doubt that future systems will be created using fat32.

I am new to Linux and your help is a comfort.

Steve
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  #6  
Old 7th November 2008, 08:45 PM
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Fedora can't be installed to Windows file systems. Unused space on a Windows file system is stil part of Windows, it's not available for Linux installation. You must create free, unpartitioned space on your disk by resizing the Windows partitions. There are various tools for doing that, including Windows Vista disk management tool and Fedora 9 or later installer.
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Old 8th November 2008, 12:41 AM
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burn the systemrescue cd disk ( it is a bootable cd ) and use gparted to change the 60gig space to ext3 or unpartitioned space
NO Linux , none of them , will INSTALL on ntfs (some can with a bunch of hacking install on fat) .
However once fedora is installed then it has no problem reading and writing to a ntfs partition .
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Last edited by JohnVV; 8th November 2008 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 8th November 2008, 06:01 AM
dumbunny Offline
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I really do appreciate your thoughts about how to solve this problem. I can install Ubuntu 8.10 on my NTFS drive. Why can't I install Fedora prerelease 10 on it? The disk does not seem to allow me to put the program on my D drive. I'm running XP Pro, not vista. I don't know how to repartition the D drive and have the CD see that instead of telling me there isn't enough space on my C drive. Very frustrating. Fedora sounds better than Ubuntu but I can't get it installed to confirm my opinion. Is there a way to download it to my D drive like WUBI does for Ubuntu? Any other ideas will be VERY much appreciated.

I hate feeling dumb!
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  #9  
Old 8th November 2008, 06:04 AM
dumbunny Offline
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Thank you for your response. Will Fedora 9 work with NTFS?
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  #10  
Old 8th November 2008, 07:43 AM
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Ubuntu just REPARTITIONED the NTFS partition to ext3fs
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  #11  
Old 8th November 2008, 08:09 AM
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Like the above post, it automatically did the partitioning and formatting behind your back, and you didn't even realize it. NTFS is a horrible filesystem for Linux systems anyway, it won't even run, let alone meet the needs of it. ext2/ext3 are the main ones.
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  #12  
Old 8th November 2008, 10:55 PM
dumbunny Offline
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Smile

A note of thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. I needed your help. You could have ignored my request, instead you came to my aid.

THANK YOU!
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  #13  
Old 8th November 2008, 11:54 PM
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Hello dumbunny,

I think I know what your problem is. You are so steeped in Windows and how it does things that you can't learn new things. I think most people went through something similar. I know I did. And your use of terms is not helping you either. Here are some things that I thought about as I read through this thread...
NOTE: Don't be insulted or offended. I assure you that all that follows was kindly meant in an effort to help.
  1. Stop using the terms "C" and "D" to refer to your drives. Those letters are how Windows operating systems refer to partitions; not drives. It's very common for a drive to have several lettered Windows partitions (like one I have with D, G, and H on it). Windows operating systems actually number drives (e.g., \device\harddisk0 in Recovery Console commands, and "Disk 0" in the Disk Management utilities).

  2. Don't refer to your drive as an NTFS drive. NTFS is a type of file system used by a partition on the drive. It's the partitions on the drive that are NTFS; not the drive itself. I have a drive with NTFS, FAT32, ext3, and swap partitions. Your naming system won't work there. See what I mean?

  3. Before you install Fedora (or any Linux distro), why not just shrink or delete existing partitions to create free unpartitioned space for the new Linux system? The distro's installer will create its own partitions in that free unpartitioned space. You seem to think that your Linux distros are somehow "using" your NTFS partitions. You think Ubuntu did and Fedora didn't. But the fact is, neither did or will. There are many file system types that Linux systems can use for their system files. The most common (IMO) is the so-called ext3 file system. A new ext4 system is coming soon and will probably replace it in popularity (just like ext3 did to ext2). But no Linux distro will ever install any of its own system files in an NTFS partition.

  4. To be clear, now. Your Linux system can indeed mount NTFS partitions and access data in their file systems. I freely share files back and forth between Fedora's ext3 partitions and Windows XP's NTFS partitions (and even a FAT32 partition). I also routinely open, edit and print Windows documents from Fedora with a Linux word processor without a problem. Ever. And with special software installed in Windows, you can browse Linux file systems from Windows (but I don't bother with that).

  5. If your hard drives are IDE drives, it may help Anaconda recognize that second drive by setting the jumpers on the drives to cable-select (CS) instead of master and slave if you are using an 80-conductor IDE cable (and you probably are these days). It's been known to work before. Years ago, cable-select required a special cable. But nowadays, any 80-conductor cable supports CS. It just means that the drive at the end of the cable is the master and the drive in the middle of the cable is the slave. Doing this usually does not harm the functioning of Windows or any other systems on the drives. If your drives are SATA, then nevermind about this idea.

  6. Repartitioning a drive (or any other kind of partition manipulation) can be done so easily with a partition manager such as the GParted LiveCD. It's my favorite, but there are many others. Windows XP does not have a built-in partition manager, but Vista does. Vista partitions should be manipulated with the Vista built-in partition manager (or partition managers designed to work with Vista partitions). You can use GParted on anything else except a Logical Volume Management physical volume (it's what Fedora will use by default, BTW). Download the ISO and burn yourself a GParted LiveCD. Boot your computer with it, and it will load and start its own Linux operating system and then start GParted. It's a pretty GUI app that can be learned easily on-the-fly. It can create, delete, shrink, grow, move, copy, paste, reformat, and do many other things to most common types of partitions. And nothing that you do with it will happen until you click "Apply". Use it to shrink (or delete) your infamous NTFS partition to create unpartitioned space for Fedora.
Don't give up. Not yet anyway. And certainly not because of what you have said so far. You just need to regain control of your mind, man (or ma'am). Once you break loose from the grip that Windows has on you, then you can be free to learn Linux and still use Windows, too.

P.S.: I am not an MS hater. I like my MS systems and use them everyday. I typed this reply in Internet Explorer and Windows XP.

Last edited by stoat; 9th November 2008 at 03:08 AM.
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  #14  
Old 9th November 2008, 07:53 AM
JohnVV Online
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some times the change , of thinking , can take some time .It's called " The Learning Curve " . In time things will get easer . I started off learning ( on XP ) the MinGW and Cygwin environments . they allow Linux code to be built/run in windows . So by the time i installed Linux for the first time ( a few weeks with ubuntu. suse , and a few others before i installed Fedora 4 . Then 6 mo. later Fedora 5 when it came out .

So by then I had a good grasp of using the terminal " Bash " and an understanding of how to build and install software and the file lay out
/ = windows C:\\
/bin - C:\\ WINDOWS
/usr/bin - C:\\ Program Files
/usr/lib - C:\\ Program Files , C:\\ WINDOWS , C:\\ WINDOWS\System32
/usr/include - C:\\ Program Files \Microsoft Visual Studio .NET, C:\\ WINDOWS\System32
/home/user name - C:\\Documents and Settings\ user name

So hang in there it will make sense sooner or later .
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