How to complain (and still be respected in the morning.)

Originally Posted by LDC

I think you cannot accept how much you made me laugh with this one, I really hope no one noticed me

You can be sure that when you make an idiot of yourself, everyone notices

Nope, I'm still not Dan, but I noticed he's out of his coffin...

Wayne

[LDC]

*sigh* so they now know I am an idiot?

Dan, despite sleeping into a coffin, has shown great taste in lookl (graphical preferences) :P

[JN4OldSchool]

Dan, I wrote a couple responses, very similar to what bbfuller said, yesterday but thought better of it. As i said, i am done complaining, but the complaints are going to keep coming in, and they are all going to follow the same track.

I dont "want my way" and I certainly dont think my complaint is anal or banal or whining. I think i expressed clearly, in a few threads now, as have others, what we think about this release. If the developers choose to listen to the "community" they say they cater to then great, if not, oh well. Like everyone else i have the choice to use this distro or not, that is not even a point of contention.

I see where you are going with this now, after your last post. Maybe a simple survey is in order? Then we can just send the results of that to the developers. That saves them the time of weeding through all the "I'm going back to winders" crap. I dont know...I dont think it will do any good anyway, i think the developers had their own ideas and probably know things we dont. I am by no means disparaging them, they do a great job, otherwise I wouldnt be using their product. I simply think they made a rather drastic mistake this release, for whatever reasons, and I am expressing my opinion. Anyway, it is done and it is time to move on. The basic truth is if you dont like F9 then simply go back to F8 or go elsewhere. Everyone has to make their own choice.

Well, F8 will be maintained until about a month after F10 is released (unless they change their release schedule!) .... so, you win some, you lose some

Wayne

[Dan]

Would but the drama llamas perceive and understand that very simple point! <....>

Maybe a survey is the way to go, JN4. The thought of a gripe sheet template has already wandered through my befuddled mind.

Honetly, yes. There are some serious vunderborks in F9. There have been ... and always will be vunderborks in a release. And it's not limited to FOSS or fedora. Witness Microsoft ME and Vista. But it seems to me that F9 has more than its own share, and is setting new records for dashed hopes and unmet expectations.

Your complaints are not the kind I'm speaking of here, though. In short ... you "get it."

I think another aspect of this would be to consider that "developers" are not "all-seeing" and "all-knowing."

It wouldn't surprise me at all to be a fly on the wall, and see a much vaunted developer, sitting in front of his desk and a cold cup of coffee, staring at a screen, scratching his head, with a sad and puzzled look on his face, saying, "Oh, carp! That is soooo busted! What the heck do I do now?"


Dan

[JN4OldSchool]

lol, I said I was done...

In their defense Dan, I dont think F9 is broke at all, I think it is probably one of the tightest releases yet. It is hard to tell at this point, due to the high forum traffic, but I have had NO problems and, in fact, F9 seems to be better put together than F8.

The only problem I see, and the cause of most of this forum traffic, are the beta components. KDE I can understand, and the truth there is that even if KDE 4 was perfect people would still complain because it was different. Maybe they should have offered these beta pieces, including FF and KDE4, as a development upgrade so that those interested could yum these pieces in. That way the basic install wouldnt require a Linux professional to get 3D, autologin, a greeter screen and a working version of KDE. Anyway, would-of's, could-of's, and should-of's...

[Dan]

Oh, I'm not taking a potshot at the devels here. Quite the opposite, in fact. Another blunt truth is that if we'd had a much wider and more extensive testing group of the beta and preview releases, most of these vunderborks would have been found and fixed.

And digressing for a moment here, I think the big issues this go-round are the typically nifty nVIDIA support is not there, so no eye candy. <....> The GDM seems about half busted (which I'm not fully convinced yet isn't an operator headspace problem) KDE4 appears to broken enough to make long time adherants almost break down and bawl, and some permissions issues are not functioning as expected.

However, even though we just got into the meat of what I was actually aiming at here ... I got a call from family this morning, so I'm going to have to drop this here. I'll try to get back on later ... but family always comes first.

Thanks for hanging in there, Sean. It's appreciated!


Dan

[LDC]

what's the difference between a beta version and an unstable gold?


I see double @,@

[JN4OldSchool]

Originally Posted by LDC

what's the difference between a beta version and an unstable gold?


I see double @,@

None that I can see!

I see double @,@

Funny, that looks like the pair of spectacles I fashioned out of two beer bottle bottoms and a wire coat-hanger!

Wayne

[LDC]

Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool

None that I can see!

correct. So we have a perpetual beta version, shouldn't be better to clearly state this?

@Wayne:
lol, this time I wasn't talking about that, but just referring to the double post made by bakemono-san

I see no ghosts! Or did you mean 'baka-mono'

Talking about ghosts, it's nearly time for me to have some of my very weird dreams....

Wayne

[LDC]

Originally Posted by Wayne

I see no ghosts! Or did you mean 'baka-mono'

ahahah nope nope, Dan double posted and wisely deleted the clone

Talking about ghosts, it's nearly time for me to have some of my very weird dreams....

oyasumi nasai

[JN4OldSchool]

Originally Posted by LDC

correct. So we have a perpetual beta version, shouldn't be better to clearly state this?

No, I disagree. I just think the distro got ahead of itself briefly. They had always planned to include FF 3 and KDE 4 in this release, and I cant speak for KDE but FF seems stable enough. The other projects, GDM and Xorg, just got bogged down from what I can tell. My crystal ball is cloudy, (to match my glass eye ...anyone?...old Benny Hill thing...oh, never mind ) but I suspect these issues will be corrected within weeks, if not days.

But yeah, a lot of my irritation over this is the fact that the release notes do not prepare the unsuspecting user for what they are going to have to deal with.

[LDC]

I think there is nothing wrong in stating the perpetual beta condition