Suggestion on fedora releases

phoxis · #1 4th January 2008, 03:40 PM

New Fedora Releases are comming evert 5 to 6 months..

is it goot to be upto-date with the latest Fedora Edition??

If now i to upgrade to fedora 9 to fedora 8 (when it realeses in april)
i need to install the os again and fully install the additional apps from scrap? or just i can upgrade upgrade.

JN4OldSchool · #2 4th January 2008, 03:57 PM

The 60 million dollar question! There is no "right" answer. Fedora doesnt aim to please YOU, it just is what it is. Whether you can make Fedora work for you is YOUR decision.

Now, that said, there are some "rules of thumb." Upgrading is certainly possible, many people do it. But, the official Fedora stance on this is a clean install is preferable. It is simply the nature of the beast, major changes take place, many which will screw up your system if you upgrade and neglect to fix these small problems.

You are welcome to use a release to EOL (end of life) which is usually a month after the release after the next is released. In other words, F7 is still supported even though F8 is out. F7 will remain supported until a month after F9 is released, then it will go EOL. The repos will eventually be pulled and there will be no more yum update. Does this mean you, as an F7 user, are screwed? Not necessarily! There are "other" repos available but I am not versed in how these operate. They are usually smaller mirrors run by interested parties still using that release. You can also compile future apps from source. If F7 is running how you like and you wish to add nothing else there is no law that says you have to update it. I ran an FC4 install well over a year after EOL with no updates. It was on the internet every day and preformed fine until I took it down by choice to install F7!

If you think about your partitioning layout fresh installs can be smooth and easy with hardly a pause in productivity. At the least you should have a separate /home. This will hold your personal documents and settings over to the next install. Better, create a separate /data (insert name of your choice) partition for your personal stuff. You can create a separate /bin or maybe even a separate /usr (not sure on this one) for apps but most home users dont bother. The apps generally get updated with the new release and since everything is in one place in the repo it isnt hard to just reinstall these. Of course I do hold things like games such as Americas Army and Sauerbraten and X-Plane and others in my /data partition so I dont have to mess with all these release after release. Same for libraries like all my e-sword modules. As you use Linux you will discover what you need to do to ease these transitions. My golden rule is if I cant remember I have an app then I obviously dont ever use it hence I dont need it installed. A fresh install is like a good spring cleaning, I get to dump all this clutter. If I ever need it again? It is in the repo, I can have it installed again in under a minute.

This is all just my take on this matter. I am sure you will get lots of other advice. Listen to everyone, you never know where that "perfect" setup or idea is going to come from. As I said, there is no right or wrong. The beauty of Linux is you can do what YOU want.

phoxis · #3 5th January 2008, 04:25 PM

The reply you wrote exactly matched with my opinion, which came in my mine after i got up next mornning.

I have got a seprate /home , there.
I dont want to be "pleased" to use any OS. what i need shear performance, and thats why i got into fedora (there are many causes,major one is , i like it). Now upgrading after 6 months is easy with you with good bandwidth , here we have limited bandwidth and after the limitation we are charged a lot.
I had fedora 7, and i changed it up to fedora 8. and am looking forward to fedora 9 , and was going through some fetures.

I think fedora should include a lot GUI configuration tools as they have in Ubuntu and other OSes.

Still i would like to be updated with fedora.

Just some questions.

[1]Could i use older packages with newer fedora?
[2]if i install the KDE 4 which is comming up in a week, would i loose my installed app confs and the plugins (gstreamer, kmultimedia,akodeextras,amarokextras), or all will be same, and there would be no jumble up?
[3]Please tell me a way using which i can download offline rpmpackages along with their missing dependencies , and update them. I wanna download rpm packages and their deps offline. (mental satisfaction) , You may think i want to make an offline personal repository.

The last question is important.

Please keep in touch , as i can know more about fedora from you, and discuss some bugs i have faced, andget some of my problems solved to.
What i need is just cooperation.

JN4OldSchool · #4 5th January 2008, 04:49 PM

I am not the best person to answer any of these questions. My take on these, and I very well could be wrong, is:

1) Yes. For the most part though you might run into problems when the base system goes through a major revision, such as QT 3.whatever to QT 4.0

2) I would think the old config files would just carry over. Chances are good. It might not be a bad idea to back /home up somewhere just in case. It would also probably be smart to start thinking about a downgrade path back to the old KDE just in case you dont like KDE 4. I would try to test this out first, maybe on a dual boot, before I committed my main OS to it.

3) You can most definitely create an offline repo. Having never done this and only causally skimming directions on how I wont answer this though. Others can better answer this.

I would like to add that Fedora especially depends on a good broadband connection. You have a 3+GB release every 6 months (even if you use the 700MB live CD you still have to consider the packages you will want to install) and frequent, large yum updates. I hate to tell you Fedora is also not the fastest distro for performance either. It is big and bloated, I call it a "kitchen sink" distro. The beauty of Fedora is it is versatile, it makes a good platform for a wide variety of needs. It can efficiently run a large number of apps, DEs, WMs etc...on a large cross-section of hardware. If you could possibly need it chances are good it is already installed and even turned on by default. There is no law or rule that says you cant or shouldnt use Fedora for your circumstances, but I suspect you might have better choices, such as debian.

phoxis · #5 6th January 2008, 06:18 AM

i will post on how to make an online repo.

and i have customised fedora, and its services to suite my system. in which direction you can say debian is a better choice?
i have got decian dvds. but i am with fedora..
Is ts performance not good than debian , and if no then from which respect. The kernel is same of the both(there is slight change in it ). And the end performance will depend on it. And i think the fedora gui could be made light to perform high.

Pleasegive me some tips to make fedora perform the best.

forkbomb · #6 6th January 2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

i will post on how to make an online repo.

and i have customised fedora, and its services to suite my system. in which direction you can say debian is a better choice?

It really depends on what you need to get from your system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

Is ts performance not good than debian , and if no then from which respect.

Linux is Linux. A distribution is really about convenience and for specific packaging for specific needs.

In terms of stability, Fedora has a reputation as being a sort of "testbed" distribution that is a bit on the bleeding edge of FOSS. In reality, though, most of us have no problems with stability unless you use development releases. Debian Stable (don't know what the term is for that) is maybe marginally more stable than Fedora. Debian Sid is often compared to the most recent version of Fedora in terms of stability.

But, like I said, many of us have no stability issues to speak of, and the "bleeding edge" reputation of Fedora, I think, is at least partially misleading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

The kernel is same of the both(there is slight change in it ). And the end performance will depend on it. And i think the fedora gui could be made light to perform high.

Again, Linux is Linux, ultimately. As far as "the fedora gui," which one?

You can use all kinds of different GUIs for all kinds of different distros.

If you want a performance GUI, try Fluxbox - it's extremely lean and one of the better examples of simplicity in GUI design. If you want something a bit more fully featured and user-friendly, maybe XFCE. GNOME is supposedly marginally better performance-wise than KDE, but KDE is supposedly more fully-featured. I wouldn't know - I use nothing but Fluxbox these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

Pleasegive me some tips to make fedora perform the best.

Hard to answer the question. It's all about you and what you need to use Fedora for.

JN4OldSchool · #7 6th January 2008, 01:39 PM

I was actually referring to the OP's lack of broadband, the fact that debian hast very few updates and that Fedora has a great many, in fact, probably an average of 30-60MB every 2-3 days for an average install. Debian etch is also infinitely more stable than Fedora, the packages are a couple generations old and the base never changes. Maybe a small update here or there, every once in a great while they will move the kernel forward.

But that is just my opinion. The OP is more than welcome to use Fedora if he wants too. That is the beauty of Linux. From a performance perspective I feel the base install of etch is slimmer, but debian is a full fledged install also. So is there a great performance difference? No, probably not. Tips to make Fedora perform the best? Turn off all unneeded services. A lighter DE/WM helps a lot. I wouldnt try removing anything from the base install unless you know what you are doing. Other than that? Hope you enjoy Fedora.

phoxis · #8 6th January 2008, 01:52 PM

I do programing (more on numerical analisys) and a lot of them takes a lot ofvthe CPU.

When i used win XP i made all graphics disabled and did the least resource needing theme .
I am using the redmond theme in fedora.

What i need to know

[1]Which services should i keep enabled and which should i keep closed( i have installed all the packages) . When answering please note My machine is not a server, but i love to make my machine run into extreme, i also dont like any kind of freezeups or glitchs.and till now i have succeeded doing thease, i also need to cut short the first time login time into kde. The launch of a new konqueror is slightly delayed (maybe a 200 to 300 ms after clicks).

[2]But i need to know how to make an offline repository. just for myself. and so that i can distribute linux to the microsoft bugs with the additional pluging for which they cry)
And a way so that i can mantain it.
Till now i have manually managed the repository (without the .xml file) all is manual and i check the deps manually , so it is time consuming and very hetric.

I am not worried about graphics , so i dont bother about wallpapers themes and all those.

I have got GNOME, KDE and Xfce installed and i have used Fluxbox when once i installed it.
But i like the most is KDE. It is really good.

I clould not understand what did you mean by saying

"In terms of stability, Fedora has a reputation as being a sort of "testbed" distribution that is a bit on the bleeding edge of FOSS"

I have used debian , ubuntu,mandriva,mint, and some more distros and Red Hat ofcource!
I liked the best is Red Hat 9 .. Simple and light.

But for some more features i got into fedora (same thing without a license)

instructions for the offline repo will be greatly appriciated.

NoWayBill · #9 6th January 2008, 02:37 PM

Can't help with your repo but info on system services can be found here...
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-services-f8.html

Quote:

I clould not understand what did you mean by saying

"In terms of stability, Fedora has a reputation as being a sort of "testbed" distribution that is a bit on the bleeding edge of FOSS"

Quite simply, Fedora is a development testbed for RedHat.
Fedora tends to out in front of the other distros when it comes to having the latest kernel/software releases, especially kernels.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe any of the other distos are into the 2.6.23 kernel family in their official repositories yet.
Sometimes this causes problems with dependencies and bugs, thus people say we're on the "bleeding edge" rather than the leading edge of Linux.

forkbomb · #10 6th January 2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

I do programing (more on numerical analisys) and a lot of them takes a lot ofvthe CPU.

Hmm... yeah, now that JN4 mentions it, Fedora may be a pretty rough distro if you don't have broadband. Debian may be better for you after all. If I didn't have broadband, I'd probably personally be Slacking (http://slackware.org), but that's just me.

I know of plenty of folks who talk of Fedora and Debian as great platforms for development in a variety of languages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

When i used win XP i made all graphics disabled and did the least resource needing theme .
I am using the redmond theme in fedora.

(How does one disable all the graphics in Windows? As far as I know there's no such thing as a TUI-only TTY in Windows. I'm confused...)

In terms of performance, I find it hard to believe that there will be much of any difference at all between different themes, unless you're using Emerald.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

[1]Which services should i keep enabled and which should i keep closed( i have installed all the packages) . When answering please note My machine is not a server, but i love to make my machine run into extreme, i also dont like any kind of freezeups or glitchs.and till now i have succeeded doing thease, i also need to cut short the first time login time into kde. The launch of a new konqueror is slightly delayed (maybe a 200 to 300 ms after clicks).

Again, the services you should disable depend highly on what you need to do or not do. Don't need Bluetooth? Axe the bluetooth related services. Don't need to remote in over SSH? Turn off SSHD. This might get you started:
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-services-f8.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

I have got GNOME, KDE and Xfce installed and i have used Fluxbox when once i installed it.
But i like the most is KDE. It is really good.

Your call, really. But if you want speed (and you said before you wanted performance), I highly suggest getting away from KDE as it is a bloated pig of a desktop environment. Same with GNOME. (I haven't used either for some time because neither seems to be worth the overhead.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoxis

I clould not understand what did you mean by saying

"In terms of stability, Fedora has a reputation as being a sort of "testbed" distribution that is a bit on the bleeding edge of FOSS"

Bleeding edge is a derogatory term for saying that something is so cutting edge that it hurts.

"Bleeding edge" usually means "software so new/undeveloped it's unstable." Fedora simply has a reputation as being "bleeding edge" and a software testbed.

FOSS = Free and Open Source Software

phoxis · #11 6th January 2008, 04:00 PM

i thought that "testbed" you ment was from the hardware perspective. Yes i know that fedora is the development testbed, and thats why i use it.

And for the "unstable" word , i think i dont know the meaning till now , since i started to use fedora in my maching.

Thank you for the services guide. I have minimised the services though i will now finetune them after fully reading it.

Update is not my headache, cause i am not in the rat race, as many people runs and gets its software updated every hour.

Till now i dont have net in my pc.
I use internet from my father's one, soon i will establish a lan,
Actually all's ready just i have to crimp the RJ45 with the UTP, but there is no crimper! lol.

Still i am going to make auto updates off.
Cause i like to do them manually.
Till now i have resolved all dependencis manually and make an organised software collection (you can take it as my hobby)

But is is very difficult , so i need an offline repo.
Dont anyone know, how the server ppl does it? i hope they dosent do that manually!!

and i always enjoy fedora.

Just some problems i have with my ATI integrated graphics , wine dosent run , cedgea dosent run,(says no direct3d or opengl devices found)
wine dosent run showing an opcode error.
and no desktop effects , (i tried to switch it on with a lot of distros, but all failed)

i have posted thease problems in the Hardware forum

please check this and see if you can help

http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=177240

and another question
[1] how to minimise KDE 1st time start up (during 1st login)