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  #1  
Old 1st July 2007, 02:46 AM
bseltzer Offline
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Debian....

just for grins, I installed Debian Etch on a spare disk I has laying around, and to be completely candid, the exercise was a waste of time and resources.

First off, the installation process is reminiscent of the state of the art back around RH6. None the less, I managed to muddle through.

Then there were all sorts of difficulties trying to get updates for what I'd installed. For all the hoopla, the much touted "apt-get" doesn't do a very respectable job dealing with dependencies. This was a particular issue when trying to install NVIDIA drivers that just might work with beryl.

I managed to get over that hump as well, only to discover the Debian repository for beryl was corrupted or otherwise unavailable. What fun....

I finally got to a mirror for the beryl stuff, and although it did indeed install, and wonder of wonders, actually run.... well sort of. Seems gnome-terminal doesn't do transparent backgrounds in Debian under beryl. Instead, when you move a terminal window, the piece of background behind it moves with it until you release the window frame, and then, and only then do you get the part of the background that is now behind the terminal showing through.

Just to add insult to injury, when I tried to register for the Debian equivalent of this forum, looking for help with the above issue, I found it near impossible to get successfully registered, and when I did, the activation email I was supposed to get never materialized.

The next time I hear someone making an unfavorable comparison between Fedora and Debian, it will take a masterful exhibition of self control to avoid throttling the idiot where he or she stands.

Thanks for letting me vent.... And believe me, Fedora, warts and all, is still head and shoulders above any of the few other distro's I've tried

regards,
Bert
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  #2  
Old 1st July 2007, 02:54 AM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bseltzer
just for grins, I installed Debian Etch on a spare disk I has laying around, and to be completely candid, the exercise was a waste of time and resources.

First off, the installation process is reminiscent of the state of the art back around RH6. None the less, I managed to muddle through.

Then there were all sorts of difficulties trying to get updates for what I'd installed. For all the hoopla, the much touted "apt-get" doesn't do a very respectable job dealing with dependencies. This was a particular issue when trying to install NVIDIA drivers that just might work with beryl.

I managed to get over that hump as well, only to discover the Debian repository for beryl was corrupted or otherwise unavailable. What fun....

I finally got to a mirror for the beryl stuff, and although it did indeed install, and wonder of wonders, actually run.... well sort of. Seems gnome-terminal doesn't do transparent backgrounds in Debian under beryl. Instead, when you move a terminal window, the piece of background behind it moves with it until you release the window frame, and then, and only then do you get the part of the background that is now behind the terminal showing through.

Just to add insult to injury, when I tried to register for the Debian equivalent of this forum, looking for help with the above issue, I found it near impossible to get successfully registered, and when I did, the activation email I was supposed to get never materialized.

The next time I hear someone making an unfavorable comparison between Fedora and Debian, it will take a masterful exhibition of self control to avoid throttling the idiot where he or she stands.

Thanks for letting me vent.... And believe me, Fedora, warts and all, is still head and shoulders above any of the few other distro's I've tried

regards,
Bert
You were doing OK till you got to the red part. Hey, we all have our opinions. You had a bad time with debian. This is very unusual and I can tell you for a fact that debian is probably the most "perfect" distro out there in the sense that it is the very essence of Linux. It is hassle free, always works and everything is standard. Of course I wont convince you of this myself and I really do regret your bad experience with it. But I wouldnt be too hasty to put the blame on debian. There are many here, in a Fedora forum, who will back up what I say. I understand your enthusiasm for Fedora and trying to show how you feel it is the best distro going. I agree. I am a Fedora man. But dont trash debian, just chalk it up to a bad experience and walk away. Hopefully someday you can revisit it and maybe decide otherwise.
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  #3  
Old 1st July 2007, 02:56 AM
Seve Offline
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Hello Bert:
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortunes with Debian.
I'm not sure you will get much of a shoulder to cry on here with a number of seasoned users who have it installed.

So batten down the hatches


Edit :

Too late

Seve
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  #4  
Old 1st July 2007, 02:58 AM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seve
Hello Bert:
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortunes with Debian.
I'm not sure you will get much of a shoulder to cry on here with a number of seasoned users who have it installed.

So batten down the hatches


Edit :

Too late

Seve
lol, hey, I went easy!
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  #5  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:00 AM
Dan Online
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Hmmm.

I'm Posting this from a picture-perfect Debian Etch install. (one of three systems in triple boot configuration on this laptop -- including F7)

On the whole ... No complaints. I'm pretty pleased with it.

http://www.fedoraforum.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=3082


Dan

Last edited by TangledWeb; 1st July 2007 at 03:04 AM.
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  #6  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:02 AM
Seve Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool
lol, hey, I went easy!
Hello JN4:
I know you did, you were very eloquent
I must agree, Debian is rock solid and I really can't find or say anything Negative about it ?
Just my $0.02

Seve
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  #7  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:07 AM
JN4OldSchool Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seve
Hello JN4:
I know you did, you were very eloquent
I must agree, Debian is rock solid and I really can't find or say anything Negative about it ?
Just my $0.02

Seve
The biggest (and only) negative thing I can say about etch is it is just damn boring! No updates, no breakdowns, no problems. It just sits there. It like just always works. Like driving a Ford sedan. This is why I stay with Fedora. Debian just leaves me...bored...
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  #8  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:10 AM
bob Offline
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Jeez, even I installed the fool thing and had it up and running in less than a millennium.
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  #9  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:17 AM
Seve Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool
The biggest (and only) negative thing I can say about etch is it is just damn boring! No updates, no breakdowns, no problems. It just sits there. It like just always works. Like driving a Ford sedan. This is why I stay with Fedora. Debian just leaves me...bored...
Hello JN4:
You know
You are absolutely dead on ..... the dang thing is boring.
Crap .. it just works fine all the time and as you mentioned, seldom are there any updates and when they do appear .... gosh they work just fine.

Seve
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  #10  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:43 AM
bseltzer Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seve
Hello JN4:
You know
You are absolutely dead on ..... the dang thing is boring.
Crap .. it just works fine all the time and as you mentioned, seldom are there any updates and when they do appear .... gosh they work just fine.

Seve
Glad to hear your experiences with Etch have been so enjoyable. Clearly, mine, so far, have not. I'm perfectly willing to admit that most of what I've run into has its roots in plain old unfamiliarity, but like I said, I was just venting. That's why this post is here, and not on one of the support forums.

OK, so maybe I am a bit premature.... In any case, I haven't given up on Etch entirely just yet.

But while I'm at it, if those of you who have such "boring" Debian installs up and running could take some time out from congratulating yourselves and spare me a few pearls of wisdom, just how do I solve the problem I described with gnome-terminal transparency under beryl? This is on a Dell XPS 410, E6600 DuoCore, 2 GB RAM, 2 300 GB Non-RAID SATA HS, and a NVIDIA 7950 GS. The current video driver was installed using the script from the NVIDIA site. From what you're all telling me, this should be a slam-dunk to fix.

My xorg.conf , which works just fine if FC6 and F7, looks like this;

Code:
Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier     "Default Layout"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
        InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
        InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

Section "Files"

# Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together)
# By default, a font server independent of the X server is
# used to render fonts.


        FontPath     "unix/:7100"
EndSection

Section "Module"
        Load  "fbdevhw"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "freetype"
        Load  "type1"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "extmod"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

# Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1))
#       Option  "Xleds"         "1 2 3"
# To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable.
#       Option  "XkbDisable"
# To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the
# lines below (which are the defaults).  For example, for a non-U.S.
# keyboard, you will probably want to use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "pc102"
# If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use:
#       Option  "XkbModel"      "microsoft"
#
# Then to change the language, change the Layout setting.
# For example, a german layout can be obtained with:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
# or:
#       Option  "XkbLayout"     "de"
#       Option  "XkbVariant"    "nodeadkeys"
#
# If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and
# control keys, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:swapcaps"
# Or if you just want both to be control, use:
#       Option  "XkbOptions"    "ctrl:nocaps"
#
        Identifier  "Keyboard0"
        Driver      "kbd"
        Option      "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option      "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
        Option      "Emulate3Buttons" "yes"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"

        Identifier   "Monitor0"
        VendorName   "Monitor Vendor"
        ModelName    "Dell E171FPb"
        DisplaySize  340        270
 ### Comment all HorizSync and VertSync values to use DDC:
        HorizSync    31.0 - 80.0
        VertRefresh  56.0 - 76.0
        Option      "dpms"
EndSection

Section "Device"
        Identifier  "Videocard0"
        Driver      "nvidia"
        VendorName  "Videocard vendor"
        BoardName   "nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 MX 420]"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Videocard0"
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth     24
        Option      "AllowGLXWithComposite" "True"
        Option      "RenderAccel" "True"
        Option      "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "True"
        Option "DisableGLXRootClipping" "True"
        Option      "MetaModes" "1280x1024_75 1152x864 1024x768 800x600 640x480"
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     16
                Modes    "1280x1024_75" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     24
                Modes    "1280x1024" "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "DRI"
        Group        0
        Mode         0666
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
        Option      "Composite" "Enable"
EndSection
Seriously, I could use the help. And I promise not to throttle anyone at all ever for ever & ever

regards,
Bert
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  #11  
Old 1st July 2007, 03:53 AM
sailor Offline
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Debian 4.0 did not work for me...
but that is what you can run into from time to time...I'll try again another time.
Fedora does not work for some, I have never had much problem with it from FC 1 thru Fedora 7
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  #12  
Old 1st July 2007, 04:10 AM
RupertPupkin Offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bseltzer
just for grins, I installed Debian Etch on a spare disk I has laying around, and to be completely candid, the exercise was a waste of time and resources.

First off, the installation process is reminiscent of the state of the art back around RH6.
I think "byzantine" is the word I would use to describe Debian's install process.

My experiences with Debian have been similar to yours. I've tried installing it three different times (the latest attempt being with Etch), each time it screwed up my network settings, screwed up a lot of package dependencies, and generally made a mess of things. I will say one thing for Debian: it always makes me appreciate the Red Hat/Fedora way of doing things. I really do think we have the best distro here, in Fedora. If I were forced at gunpoint to use another distro, I'd pick Slackware, not Debian.
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  #13  
Old 1st July 2007, 04:14 AM
Dan Online
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Well, I knew if I played with it long enough ...

I've just borked my Debian/Gnome account. A word to the wise. xpenguins and xpenguins Gnome Applet did not play well with my installation.

Dang!


Dan
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  #14  
Old 1st July 2007, 04:28 AM
Dan Online
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Recovery complete. It appears the Gnome applet was the culprit. All fixed. <....>
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  #15  
Old 1st July 2007, 09:50 AM
Thetargos Online
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JN4OldSchool
The biggest (and only) negative thing I can say about etch is it is just damn boring! No updates, no breakdowns, no problems. It just sits there. It like just always works. Like driving a Ford sedan. This is why I stay with Fedora. Debian just leaves me...bored...
Hehehe...

You should then run Gentoo or LFS

Edit

I was gonna make another post, but figured why when I can just edit this one.

My experiences with Debian are pretty much standard. Installation was reasonably easy (easy != beautiful, like Fedora, Xandros, Ubuntu, SuSE)... System updates were OK, etc. My main grievance with it was when trying to use the latest packages available, and then something would brake with apt and updates. I could walk around the issues, and nothing would happen, but why would that has to happen, is beyond me (especially when gotten from the much touted apt-get repositories). One thing is for sure: apt-get is faster than Yum, and since it idoesn't fetch every time the list of packages, unless explicitly told to, for installing packages is faster, for installing updates, YUM runs cyrcles around apt-get as it will THEN have to fetch the updated lists and all... One thing for the other.

Generally I like more (know better how?) to work with RPMs than Debs, call it personal preference, also RH's tools have always been sexier
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Last edited by Thetargos; 1st July 2007 at 09:59 AM.
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