The most terrifying part of Linux

[Craig Pemberton]

When I first started learning about Linux, the output of rpm was the most demoralizing thing ever.

rpm
RPM version 4.4.2
Copyright (C) 1998-2002 - Red Hat, Inc.
This program may be freely redistributed under the terms of the GNU GPL

Usage: rpm [-aKfgpWHqV] [-aKfgpWHqVcdils] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqV] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqV] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqV] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqVK] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqVK] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqVKi] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqVKiv] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqVKiv] [-aKfgpWHqVcdilsaKfgpWHqVKiv?] [-a|--all] [-f|--file] [-g|--group]
[-p|--package] [-W|--ftswalk] [--pkgid] [--hdrid] [--fileid]
[--specfile] [--triggeredby] [--whatrequires] [--whatprovides]
[--nomanifest] [-c|--configfiles] [-d|--docfiles] [--dump] [-l|--list]
[--queryformat=QUERYFORMAT] [-s|--state] [--nomd5] [--nofiles]
[--nodeps] [--noscript] [--comfollow] [--logical] [--nochdir]
[--nostat] [--physical] [--seedot] [--xdev] [--whiteout]
[--addsign] [-K|--checksig] [--delsign] [--import] [--resign]
[--nodigest] [--nosignature] [--initdb] [--rebuilddb] [--aid]
[--allfiles] [--allmatches] [--badreloc] [-e|--erase <package>+]
[--excludedocs] [--excludepath=<path>] [--fileconflicts] [--force]
[-F|--freshen <packagefile>+] [-h|--hash] [--ignorearch] [--ignoreos]
[--ignoresize] [-i|--install] [--justdb] [--nodeps] [--nomd5]
[--nocontexts] [--noorder] [--nosuggest] [--noscripts]
[--notriggers] [--oldpackage] [--percent] [--prefix=<dir>]
[--relocate=<old>=<new>] [--repackage] [--replacefiles]
[--replacepkgs] [--test] [-U|--upgrade <packagefile>+]
[-D|--define 'MACRO EXPR'] [-E|--eval 'EXPR'] [--macros=<FILE:...>]
[--nodigest] [--nosignature] [--rcfile=<FILE:...>] [-r|--root ROOT]
[--querytags] [--showrc] [--quiet] [-v|--verbose] [--version]
[-?|--help] [--usage] [--scripts] [--setperms] [--setugids]
[--conflicts] [--obsoletes] [--provides] [--requires] [--info]
[--changelog] [--xml] [--triggers] [--last] [--filesbypkg]
[--fileclass] [--filecolor] [--filecontext] [--fscontext]
[--recontext] [--fileprovide] [--filerequire] [--redhatprovides]
[--redhatrequires] [--buildpolicy=<policy>] [--with=<option>]
[--without=<option>]

Seeing as rpm is a very basic tool that most new users need to use very early on in their Linux experiences, I feel that this could be more informative. I can hardly read the alphabet soup, let alone make any use of it.

The above is the same as "rpm --usage" so for some crazy people who really want it can still have access to it if it changes.

I was thinking something along these lines might be more eliucidating:

The RPM Package Manager (RPM) is a powerful command line driven
package management system capable of installing, uninstalling,
verifying, querying, and updating software packages. 

Query mode options (after -q)
  -i print package information
  -c            		   list all configuration files
  -d		                   list all documentation files
  -l                               list files in package
  -a                               list all packages
  -f                               list package(s) owning file
  --whatrequires                   list the package(s) which require a dependency
  --whatprovides                   list the package(s) which provide a dependency

Install/Upgrade/Erase mode options (after -i or -U or -e)
  -h                               print hash marks as package installs (good with -v)

Verify options (after -V):
  --nofiles                        don't verify files in package
  -a                               query/verify all packages
  -f                               query/verify package(s) owning file

Common options for all rpm modes:
  --quiet                          provide less detailed output
  --verbose, -v                    provide more detailed output
  --version                        print the version of rpm being used

Help options:
  --help, -?                       Show a more complete help message
  --usage                          Display a concise usage message

Examples:
rpm -q sendmail			#see if sendmail is installed, and print version info
rpm -qic bash			#give info for  and list all configuration files
rpm -qa | grep font		#locate all installed packages with font in the name
rpm -q --whatprovides httpd	#see what package is providing the html server
rpm -qf file			#see what package a file belongs to
rpm -e rhythmbox		#uninstall rhythmbox
rpm -i file.rpm			#install file.rpm regardless of other installed versions (-U is prefered)
rpm -Uvh file.rpm		#install file.rpm, replacing older versions, displaying hashes and verbosity
rpm -Va --nofiles		#check your system for missing dependencies

I'm hoping that I can get some support behind this and actually see it implemented. What does everyone think?

[ccrvic]

When I first started learning about Linux, the output of rpm was the most demoralizing thing EVER.

So use man rpm instead.

I was thinking something along these lines might be more eliucidating:

...And significantly less useful to those of us who want a synopsis without an explanation.

The man and info pages are the place for verbosity. CLI help options are deliberately succinct, and should remain that way.

Vic.

[danielHL]

The first tool a newbie should use for installing/removing software is yum (at least on fedora systems). The above output of the command is equivalent to most linux command line tools. It lists the basic parameters. This is not intended to get everybody used to using rpm but for fixing typos, looking for mandatory parameters etc. If you want detailed information about a command, man is your friend.

CU
Daniel

[Craig Pemberton]

"rpm --usage" provides such a synopsis
"info rpm" provides the exact same thing on my installation
"man rpm" this so comprehensive that it could be overwhelming

Many new users will need to use rpm and they will be stopped dead by that output. Errors in invocation and simply "rpm" could provide better information because this is what most users will encounter before they ever learn enough about info or man to use them properly.

[Craig Pemberton]

And about yum, yes yum should be used. Unfortunately many times people are refered to use 'rpm' while reading instructions online. Also, there are some facets of package management that are better to use rpm for.

[RahulSundaram]

And about yum, yes yum should be used. Unfortunately many times people are refered to use 'rpm' while reading instructions online. Also, there are some facets of package management that are better to use rpm for.

People who use or recommend RPM as a tool for end user package management is more often than completely mistaken. Yum or graphical tools that are built on top of it like Pirut and Pup are basically the only things that end users usually need to directly use.

RPM command line output is intimidating because it is a lower level library and less of a tool.

[Craig Pemberton]

Sorry if this came off as hostile, as it seems to have stirred up some bad-vibes. That wasn't my intention. Sorry.

I agree, it is true that the complexity of rpm should be hidden from users behind other front ends, and this is done more so in recent days. This also seems somewhat like sweeping dirt under a rug. Why shouldn't the complexity be made more transparent and managable at every level?

People who use or recommend RPM as a tool for end user package management is more often than completely mistaken.

Unfortunately, most fedora install guides use rpm -Uvh instead of yum localinstall. For example, the stanton finely guide and almost every site it links to use rpm where they could have used yum. Although this works, people use the guides to learn from as well, and it teaches them up to use an inappropriate and inaccessible tool.

[RedFedora]

And sometimes yum simply doesn't work and one must use rpm directly.
I agree that cleaning up the "help" from the rpm command
is a good idea. Also, making the an page more readable would be
nice. I'm not talking about sweeping changes, just some re-wording
to help out those with less Linux experience.

[BandC]

Examples:
rpm -q sendmail #see if sendmail is installed, and print version info
rpm -qic bash #give info for and list all configuration files
rpm -qa | grep font #locate all installed packages with font in the name
rpm -q --whatprovides httpd #see what package is providing the html server
rpm -qf file #see what package a file belongs to
rpm -e rhythmbox #uninstall rhythmbox
rpm -i file.rpm #install file.rpm regardless of other installed versions (-U is prefered)
rpm -Uvh file.rpm #install file.rpm, replacing older versions, displaying hashes and verbosity
rpm -Va --nofiles #check your system for missing dependencies

One thing many man pages lack I think is examples. They tell you all the options but many times option explanations alone don't make sense to me without an example or two. A couple of examples for each option like above would go a long way.

[sailor]

I agree, I would also like examples...sometimes the documentation is just not that clear.

[RahulSundaram]

One thing many man pages lack I think is examples. They tell you all the options but many times option explanations alone don't make sense to me without an example or two. A couple of examples for each option like above would go a long way.

Ok. Write up the content and file a request in http://bugzilla.redhat.com or send it Fedora Documentation project. Make it happen rather than just wishing it to be true.

[RahulSundaram]

Sorry if this came off as hostile, as it seems to have stirred up some bad-vibes. That wasn't my intention. Sorry.

I agree, it is true that the complexity of rpm should be hidden from users behind other front ends, and this is done more so in recent days. This also seems somewhat like sweeping dirt under a rug. Why shouldn't the complexity be made more transparent and managable at every level?


Unfortunately, most fedora install guides use rpm -Uvh instead of yum localinstall. For example, the stanton finely guide and almost every site it links to use rpm where they could have used yum. Although this works, people use the guides to learn from as well, and it teaches them up to use an inappropriate and inaccessible tool.

Complexity cannot be hidden from RPM because the utility has hundreds of options. What we do instead is abstract and make it easier to do the stuff that users usually want to do in higher level tools. If you find wrong documentation, write to the authors. Write better guides and so on.

[Craig Pemberton]

I filed a report with redhat buzilla. It's worth a shot.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla....cgi?id=202061

[rclark]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Some of the command line utilities are 'intimidating' even after reading the man documents .

And sometimes yum simply doesn't work and one must use rpm directly.

I am one of them... While yum works, it is a very slow tool to use on a 56K connection. Even on connection at work it takes a bit but is 'tolerable' there. I normally check the 'updates' section once a day to see what has been added, and if I feel I need the updates I download the RPM packages to a thumb drive at work and then bring home and load.... Very rare I use the 'yum' for updates at home.... toooooo slooooow.

[ihavenoname]

When I first started learning about Linux, the output of rpm was the most demoralizing thing ever.



Seeing as rpm is a very basic tool that most new users need to use very early on in their Linux experiences, I feel that this could be more informative. I can hardly read the alphabet soup, let alone make any use of it.

The above is the same as "rpm --usage" so for some crazy people who really want it can still have access to it if it changes.

I was thinking something along these lines might be more eliucidating:

The RPM Package Manager (RPM) is a powerful command line driven
package management system capable of installing, uninstalling,
verifying, querying, and updating software packages. 

Query mode options (after -q)
  -i print package information
  -c            		   list all configuration files
  -d		                   list all documentation files
  -l                               list files in package
  -a                               list all packages
  -f                               list package(s) owning file
  --whatrequires                   list the package(s) which require a dependency
  --whatprovides                   list the package(s) which provide a dependency

Install/Upgrade/Erase mode options (after -i or -U or -e)
  -h                               print hash marks as package installs (good with -v)

Verify options (after -V):
  --nofiles                        don't verify files in package
  -a                               query/verify all packages
  -f                               query/verify package(s) owning file

Common options for all rpm modes:
  --quiet                          provide less detailed output
  --verbose, -v                    provide more detailed output
  --version                        print the version of rpm being used

Help options:
  --help, -?                       Show a more complete help message
  --usage                          Display a concise usage message

Examples:
rpm -q sendmail			#see if sendmail is installed, and print version info
rpm -qic bash			#give info for  and list all configuration files
rpm -qa | grep font		#locate all installed packages with font in the name
rpm -q --whatprovides httpd	#see what package is providing the html server
rpm -qf file			#see what package a file belongs to
rpm -e rhythmbox		#uninstall rhythmbox
rpm -i file.rpm			#install file.rpm regardless of other installed versions (-U is prefered)
rpm -Uvh file.rpm		#install file.rpm, replacing older versions, displaying hashes and verbosity
rpm -Va --nofiles		#check your system for missing dependencies

I'm hoping that I can get some support behind this and actually see it implemented. What does everyone think?

This is a Fantastic idea! If they were newbies there is a good chance they won't know about man rpm. Reguardless of the experiance, having a clearer and more user friendly output benifits all of us. I see very little benifit from the old output. Excellant rewrite Craig!