F16 is Rock Solid Simple

[BBQdave]

With new hardware (Toshiba Satellite C655), I decided to try Fedora and made the move to F16 from Debian 6. No fall off in production, so I was happy. Initially I was using F16 Xfce, great DE environment, then decided to take the plunge into Gnome 3. Still some odd DE design choices in Gnome 3, but I am getting used to it.

Which brings me to this observation: As I am cruising along with production and testing different Linux distros in VirtualBox, I find myself comparing them to F16. For me, F16 has become the standard.

I read reviews of Fedora that say it has a higher learning curve (most of the time mentioning Ubuntu as simple), But I do not find this to be true. Debian took some tinkering to set up (backports), fairly straight forward, but perhaps off-putting for someone new to Linux. Used Ubuntu 10.04 briefly, needed tinkering with ppa's to get upto date applications and maintain system. Again both Debian and Ubuntu a little more involved than install and play.

With Fedora, you install and play. Just that simple. Need to extend the choice of programs available? Add rpmfusion free. Need more? Add rpmfusion non-free. That's it. On the one hand, I am happy F16 is so simple to maintain and have upto date applications (great for production). On the other hand, I am bored, no backports or ppa's to keep up with. Thus, I play and test in VirtualBox.

I mean no offense to those that tinker and fine tune a Fedora install, but for me, it is rock solid stable and simple to maintain. F16 is the easiest distro I have ever worked with. And I have yet to find F16's equal in my VirtualBox

[Dan]

Fedora 16 a good release? Uhm ... yeah. I'll go along with that. Solid enough to be installed on three laptops, (one of which is my business machine) and a daily-driver desktop. In fact, contrary to popular belief, I won't even toss too many bug ugly rocks at Gnome 3. <....>

That being said, I'm coming at it strictly from the standpoint of a desktop system user, not necessarily that of a power user or an administrator, so I don't have to deal with the inherent cluster of techno-terrors that can and do plague those for whom change isn't always such a good thing, or even really welcome at all.

It's also worth noting, however, that of all the systems that I have installed F16 on, only two run G3/Gnome-Shell with any regularity. All the rest run either e16 or E17 for a desktop environment. Gnome3/Gnome Shell has come a long ways, and it certainly has some attractive and good qualities, but it's also quite heavy, and on dated/older gear, it's a lot like asking an ant to carry a biscuit.

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by Dan

It's also worth noting, however, that of all the systems that I have installed F16 on, only two run G3/Gnome-Shell with any regularity. All the rest run either e16 or E17 for a desktop environment. Gnome3/Gnome Shell has come a long ways, and it certainly has some attractive and good qualities, but it's also quite heavy, and on dated/older gear, it's a lot like asking an ant to carry a biscuit.

Agree

On my Dell Inspiron 1100 (what the Toshiba replaced), I run F16 Xfce. And it runs really well on that old machine. Even on my new hardware, Gnome 3 seems to lag sometimes, with multiple applications going, not often, but sometimes. It will be interesting to compare F18 Gnome and F18 Xfce (4.10) for DE responsivness on my new hardware.

[BBQdave]

Well, I have a little egg on my face
F16 and F17 jammed me up on my new hardware. Upon updating F16 to Kernel Linux 3.3.7, lost my wireless. So for awhile I was able to boot into a previous Kernel Linux and have wireless. Ran into trouble though, as other updates caused buggy behavior with the Kernel Linux 3.3.6.

So I thought, let me try F17, maybe that will resolve my wireless issue. Was not able to get it installed. OK, back to F16 and no wireless. After a few days tethered to an ethernet cable, hoping for a wireless update fix, I decided to try Linux Mint 13 -MATE.

Mint is nice and wireless too, and I am digging putting files and folders on my desktop again

Maybe Fedora jamming up should not have caught me by surprise, but it did. I purchased new hardware based on the stability and live cd testing with F16. Prior to trying Fedora, I used Debian for a good while, no issue like this with Debian - maybe this is the norm for Fedora? F16 Gnome 3 and Xfce - great DE's, not sure though, that you can break a distro with an update - and pass it off as bleeding edge, that's what happens?

At the end of the day, a final release Linux distro needs to function. Maybe with updates testing new software, an application may crash; but a whole distro jams up? Two final releases (F16 and F17) unusable on linux friendly hardware? If this is acceptable, not sure what all the fan fare with new releases is about? Testing is testing, and on going testing is not a distro... it's testing

[BBQdave]

OK, I caught my breathe and I have F17 up and running... though I am scared to update

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by Dan

It's also worth noting, however, that of all the systems that I have installed F16 on, only two run G3/Gnome-Shell with any regularity. All the rest run either e16 or E17 for a desktop environment.

And I believe that is the key to happiness (Fedora - wise).

With the purchase of my new notebook (Toshiba Satellite C655), I tested and used Fedora 16 Xfce. Was comfortable with Fedora, and decided to try Gnome 3. That's where the trouble started. Thought maybe it was Fedora, so I tried other Gnome 3 distros, still trouble. Now through that bumpy journey, I am back with F16 Xfce.

I am still a little puzzled because I know Fedora Xfce spin is a blend of Xfce and Gnome. But it is stable and it works

[shu246]

Question for you, BBQDave.

You say you installed Fedora 16 on a Toshiba C655.

Have a Toshiba C655-S5514, picked up at a Wal-Mart closeout to replace my old Asus dual boot laptop. Not an IT expert, but have been dual-booting my machines with RedHat/Fedora for about a decade - usually starting from a clean drive, repartitioning, putting in the Windows, then the Linux with GRUB.

This is getting more ticklish now that Windows install CD no longer comes with the machine. Am not as comfortable with the Logical Volume system as with the old 4 partitions.

What do you recommend to safely pack down the Windows partition on the Toshi C655 to make room for Linux?

- Shu

---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

Got it - mostly.
Found Computer Management > Storage > Disk Management > shrink
in the Windows 7, made an 80gb space for the Fedora and got it installed.

Missed the step to designate the GRUB2 default. Got that sorted out the proper
way after Googling around.

What I haven't figured out yet, is there are three ntfs partitions
the 1.46 gb is probably for restore HD to as-delivered-with-Win7 condition
the large 500 gb should be the Win7, op sys and data
but there is also a 13.67 ntfs partition.........??

Always scary to do this the first time with a new operating system (or two).
Fortunately there is not much data to worry about. That is tucked onto a
Fedora machine running a SAMBA server.

-shu

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by shu246

You say you installed Fedora 16 on a Toshiba C655.

I come from a Mac and Red Hat Linux world. I have used Windows very little (yeah, I know, hard to believe). Awhile back I moved completely from Mac osX to Linux. So as crazy as this sounds, I tested my Toshiba in the store with a F16 live cd (which tested well), then purchased the Toshiba - brought it home and tested some more with F16 live cd - then wiped the hard drive and did a fresh install of F16 (as the only os).

I did not try Windows 7, did not even boot it up on my new Toshiba. So I am not familiar with dual booting.
For me, Fedora is the most stable Linux distro going. There was some bumpy-ness with updates that caused crashes in Gnome 3 (F16 and F17 - around May and the release of F17), that seems to be ironed out and F16 is running smooth again. The most stable, consistent (and for me) familiar Linux distro has been F16 Xfce.

With the ever changing (to tablet UI) of Gnome 3, I am curious to see Xfce 4.10 - which will be released in F18.

Sorry I was not much help on dual booting, but I can offer that testing with a live cd before install has worked well for me and various hardware. Too, when Gnome 3 became buggy (in May) I tested many Linux distros. IMHO Fedora and Debian are the best Linux distros going. If you are looking to go completely with Linux, I would start with Fedora and Debian

[shu246]

Not so strange. I know almost nothing of Macs, but have heard Mac OS is closer to Unix/Linux than is Windows. Scribbled for the local newspaper for a couple of years, and they had Macs there; better for the graphic artists than PCs, I hear.

My first exposure to Macs was about 25 yrs ago when my son brought his Apple home from college. I sat at the keyboard and asked him how to get to a command prompt. Got a blank stare in return. Not a good start.

Was about that time we had made a major investment in new software for our small retail business. It ran on Xenix, and the SysOp was gonna hafta be me. The more I read the Xenix manual, the more hooked I became. Such elegance, such terseness, such power!

Not long after I started writing shell scripts, and wanted to work on them while at home. Found Coherent and got my DOS desktop machine dual booting. Mark Williams Co. which wrote and sold Coherent, went out of business shortly afterwards, and I found Red Hat.

I don't actually do much with Linux any more, but having a machine able to boot to more than one operating system has captivated me ever since.

Live CD's are nice!. First one I had was Knopix. Shortly after I made the Knopix CD I botched the Administrator password in one of my Window machines and got locked out. Booted to Knopix, found and wiped the Windows password file; problem solved.

-shu

[hadrons123]

better for the graphic artists than PCs,

Its a myth. You can do almost all graphics work in windows when compared with Mac.

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by hadrons123

Its a myth. You can do almost all graphics work in windows when compared with Mac.

I am curious too, with the way adobe is shooting itself in the foot (and I think they are aiming for their head), if there will be even a need for a specific platform.

At an amateur level I do graphic design, desktop publishing, web publishing, all on Linux. A friend (architech) heavily utilizes google applications (most free) for production needs, and can access work from many devices and OS's.

So I think Mac gave away graphic design (to any platform) to focus on iShiny products

Which again (maybe I am a dinosaur) but I can not see that sustaining Apple down the road. There is only so much iShiny one can chew on, and I think it's day will pass.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by BBQdave

I am curious too, with the way adobe is shooting itself in the foot (and I think they are aiming for their head), ...

Agreed. They seem to have the same built-in arrogance and hubris that eventually led QuarkXpress into the darkness.