The Case of the Disappearing Files (NTFS Style)

[AceRoom]

Anything that we could try or would it lead to a deadend?

From this blog, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...lth-model.aspx

It seems that microsoft is improving the NTFS filesystem so maybe that could eradicate these problems altogether.

[Jean Pierre]

Anything that we could try or would it lead to a deadend?

It will be difficult to do more remote testing, so I will have to install Windows 8 and check myself. This will take time, more findings welcome in the meantime. For now I recommend shutting down Windows 8 fully.

It seems that microsoft is improving the NTFS filesystem so maybe that could eradicate these problems altogether.

This seems to be about checking and defragmenting NTFS on the fly (without unmounting), it does not mean changes to file system layout.

[AceRoom]

I guess we'll close this thread then. I'll revert back to Win7.

If you do find anything, let me know. Thanks again for all the help.

[AceRoom]

An odd thing happened today. I copied some files and downloaded some others from my dropbox into the dropbox folder. I needed to use those files in Windows right after that so I logged in and those files disappeared. However, when I logged back into Fedora, those files reappeared (And not from the dropbox sync, they were just there).

Just thought I would mention this incident if it may help.

[Jean Pierre]

In theory, you can prevent your computer running Windows8 from hibernating, by running the command

powercfg -h off

I am not sure whether this has an effect on the fast reboot.

I have installed the Windows8 Release Preview on a virtualbox virtual computer, and I have the opposite problem : I have not been able to hibernate.

c:\Users\Jean-Pierre\Documents>powercfg -h on
Hibernation failed with the following error: The request is not supported.

The following items are preventing hibernation on this system.
        The system firmware does not support hibernation.

c:\Users\Jean-Pierre\Documents>shutdown /h
Hibernation is not enabled on this system. You must enable hibernation in order
to use the -h option.

As a consequence, I have not been able to create a mismatch between the Windows view of files and the Linux one. There is no hiberfil.sys, and I do not get the fast Windows boot.

[AceRoom]

Sorry, just noticed your update. (Did not get a notification)

I'm not sure if hibernation is supported by VirtualBox. Perhaps try the closed source version. It generally has more options.

But I noticed something weird today. I'm back on Windows 7 with Fedora 17. Apparently, due to low battery, my windows went into hibernation. I later booted up the system into fedora. Downloaded a file into my dropbox folder. Shut down the computer sometime later. Now, when I booted into Windows, dropbox on Windows started downloading the same file. So I am guessing we were right about it being that windows remembers the old state of the hard drives during hibernation (Which is also the same way Windows 8 boot is so fast.)
But other than this case, I have had no similar problems with Windows 7.

Let me try running Win8 on a VM and see if I'm able to get it to hibernate.

[Jean Pierre]

So I am guessing we were right about it being that windows remembers the old state of the hard drives during hibernation

This has been known for long, and ntfs-3g should detect the hibernation when mounting the Windows 7 system partition.

(Which is also the same way Windows 8 boot is so fast.)

Probably true, though I have not been able to check it. Without the fast booting mode, I have not been able to generate an error condition. As a consequence I do not know how to detect Windows 8 being hibernated. Not having an "hiberfil.sys" is a safe condition, but having an "hiberfil.sys" does not necessarily mean an unsafe condition.

Anybody having the issue, please try disabling the fast boot option :

powercfg -h off

and report about the fast boot disabling, the presence of hiberfil.sys and what are its first four bytes.

[AceRoom]

I don't think that ntfs-3g would detect the hibernation. The state is stored in the Windows root drive which may not even be mounted by the Linux Filesystem. And the mount mounts may vary from pc to pc

Also with Windows 8, you would not need to do a hibernate. Shutdown on that system is equally good. Of course, it depends on whether the hiberfile is used for shutdown and start up. How fast is your Virtual Win8 starting up?

[Jean Pierre]

I don't think that ntfs-3g would detect the hibernation. The state is stored in the Windows root drive which may not even be mounted by the Linux Filesystem.

When mounting a partition, ntfs-3g could check whether the bootable primary partition from the same device has already been mounted. If not mounted, it could temporarily mount it read-only to check for a hiberfil.sys. I am not keen on it, but if I have to, I will.

Shutdown on that system is equally good. Of course, it depends on whether the hiberfile is used for shutdown and start up. How fast is your Virtual Win8 starting up?

I get to the login screen in 40 seconds, from a virtual Win8 (same speed for the 32 and 64 bits variants) stored on an external USB disk formatted as ntfs. This is probably only 33 seconds, as the Windows splash screen shows after 7 seconds (2.2GHZ, single core allocated to the virtual computer). This is fast enough for me....

[Jean Pierre]

I have been able to confirm that files created on Linux may not be visible by Windows 8, and even be overriden by Windows 8, if its fast restart feature is activated. On fast restarting, Windows 8 apparently uses the metadata saved during its previous shutdown instead of the ones modified by Linux in the meantime.

To disable the fast restarting (and hibernation), you can issue as a Windows Administrator the command "powercfg /h off".

Unless overwritten by a newer file, the missing files can be restored by starting a "chkdsk /f" command, which will refresh the in-memory cache from the on-disk metadata.

Please note : this can happen on any internal partition, and ntfs-3g can only check the hibernation state on the Windows system partition. No check is made if the Windows system partition is not mounted.

[AceRoom]

Perhaps we should file a bug report or a proposal to ntfs-3g? If this issue isn't rectified, there will be huge problems when Windows 8 officially comes out.

[Jean Pierre]

Perhaps we should file a bug report

I just did : fedora bugzilla #859373 (also Ubuntu #1052566 )

or a proposal to ntfs-3g?

Good idea, waiting for a proposal....

[AceRoom]

Seems that Windows 8 offers a solution to this problem:

http://www.h-online.com/open/feature...40.html?page=2
Of course, it compromises the speedy boot.

[DBelton]

There have been reports similar to this when fast boot is enabled in Windows 8. Have you tried disabling the Fast boot (or Fast startup) option?

[AceRoom]

No, I have not. Currently, I neither have Linux nor Windows 8 installed on this laptop.

But are there any other solutions then?