No viruses? How does that work?

[flyingfsck]

Another thing about viruses is that there is a much larger user base for Windows than there is for Linux or Mac

That is a common falacy. Linux systems outnumber Windows by a large margin. Windows only dominates a small niche for desktop machines. Linux dominates everything else.

[stevea]

Originally Posted by flyingfsck

That is a common falacy. Linux systems outnumber Windows by a large margin. Windows only dominates a small niche for desktop machines. Linux dominates everything else.

Really - got some numbers to back that up ?

Last numbers I saw, Win has ~93% of desktops, ~5% MACs and <2% Lin.

A few years back, the ICD stats for the server market had Lin at ~20% of server market ,Win ~72% and the rest BSD + alternatives.

There are a lot of NAS boxes and routers running real Linux - no idea how many. More embedded devices use Linux.

I can't count cell phones w/ Android as "Linux". The kernel is close enough, but the userspace has only modest relationship to Linux.

If you classify smart phones as "Unix" broadly, then .... well I'd still want to see the numbers of PCs & smart phones.

Am I missing something ?

[flyingfsck]

Linux is the OS kernel.

About 350 million embedded devices are produced each year and about 100 million cell phones each month (just go and read over at linuxfordevices.com). If you consider that a typical device lasts 3 to 5 years, and you add it all up, you will get a number of 2 to 3 billion Linux devices in use today.

BTW, the server market is much larger than the trade figures show, because Google, Akamai, Rackspace, Yahoo, Amazon and others build their own servers.

Concentrating only on Desktop systems is Microsoft's way to try and appear relevant.

[solo2101]

Originally Posted by flyingfsck

Here is why:
http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/evilmalware.html

almost pee my self there...

[stevea]

Originally Posted by flyingfsck

Linux is the OS kernel.

"OS kernel" doesn't parse as English. The OS is not just the kernel. The kernel is decidedly not the OS.

About 350 million embedded devices are produced each year and about 100 million cell phones each month (just go and read over at linuxfordevices.com). If you consider that a typical device lasts 3 to 5 years, and you add it all up, you will get a number of 2 to 3 billion Linux devices in use today.

I've worked on embedded computer hardware for decades and those numbers don't parse.
If the US has it's economic share of those (1550MM) device per year then every US resident gets a new Linux device per year. I'm probably not keeping up my end, but I seriously doubt my neighbors are.

BTW, the server market is much larger than the trade figures show, because Google, Akamai, Rackspace, Yahoo, Amazon and others build their own servers.

Concentrating only on Desktop systems is Microsoft's way to try and appear relevant.

A fair point, but that doesn't shift the balance if we are counting embedded devices & phones.

Android OS is not Linux OS in a meaningful sense. When considering the kernels I'd argue that the relationship between Linux & Android before the 3.3 merge is roughly like the comparison between FreeBSD and NetBSD. Functionally similar with implementation differences. NOT the same kernel or OS. After the merge the kernels are very much closer and the userspaces still are tanential

[sea]

I just guess, but beside linux beeing less spread, i assume linux users recognize most of the "danger" that is around.
EDIT:
Just something most people are not aware of, allthough its obvious:
A computervirus is code (or a segment of it) that has been coded for a purpose.
That purpose can be ANY thing.

[jpollard]

Originally Posted by sea

I just guess, but beside linux beeing less spread, i assume linux users recognize most of the "danger" that is around.
EDIT:
Just something most people are not aware of, allthough its obvious:
A computervirus is code (or a segment of it) that has been coded for a purpose.
That purpose can be ANY thing.

A useless definition - it includes every program ever written.

---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

Stevea... I think he is referring to world wide use, not just the US.

[flyingfsck]

Android OS is not Linux OS in a meaningful sense.

No, Linux really is only the kernel. The word kernel is a technical term that includes the program loader, memory manager, scheduler and a few other things and it is very tiny, compared to all the rest.

The overwhelming bulk of a GNU/Linux desktop system is made up of general purpose programs that also run on several other kernels, including the BSDs, Mach, Solaris, the now dead Xenix, AIX and Irix and even the experimental Hurd.

Android, is a mere desktop environment, that you should rather compare with KDE, XFCE or LXDE, which all usually have Linux underneath, but which could also run on other kernels.

This is why Richard keeps harping on the GNU/Linux name, since the Linux kernel is really only a tiny little part of a Linux System.

Therefore, when you count Linux systems, you should count all of them - the big iron super computers, the clusters and the cell phones, phone exchanges, routers, aircraft control and navigation systems, radar sets, GPS receivers, missiles, smart phones, smart bombs, satellites and toys. The total market for Linux systems is mind blowingly vast and totally overshadows everything else in quantity, importance and value.

The long and the short of it all is that Linux won and Microsoft lost badly - years ago already - the battle is over - we are just mopping up now.

[sea]

Originally Posted by jpollard

A useless definition - it includes every program ever written.

Actualy i just want to turn back to the opener topic, viruses..

[jpollard]

Most viruses cannot easily exist on Linux - first there is the separation of user from system, then there is the separation of system from itself (compartmentalization... though that is being attacked in two ways - systemd and gnome-shell).

It used to be that the system compartments isolated those things that were all powerful from everything else. This is where systemd is breaking the "least privilege" rule. It is taking on all roles for itself, which defeats the compartmenalization

Gnome-shell is another weak point. It interprets javascript as plugins, and applets. Unfortunately, that means that a downloaded file COULD get counted directly as a plugin/applet. Doesn't mean it does. Right now it depends on what directory it gets downloaded into, and how well the browser of choice is protected/restricted from putting files anywhere.

[Ihatewindows]

In response to the very first post:
Linux is secure. You only need to worry about malware and stuff like that on Windows. Just make sure all your updates come from a trusted source and there should be no surprises. Not saying that you can't get a binary from a new source, it's just safest to get them from a trusted place. If you want an added layer of security, use an uncommon distrobution like Slackware or a descendant.
Hope this helps give a strait answer to your question!

[Neutralizer]

Hello Ihatewindows,
Could you please tell me how do I know where my updates are coming from? how can I check my update source? I'm new fedora user.
Thank you.

[Neutralizer]

Hi, I'm still seeking answer for my question.
I'm also getting little frustrated for linux as you guys just keep repeating same thing: there are not many viruses available for Linux so we are safe.

what kind of idea is that?? I don't get it.

[jpollard]

The "viruses" that exist have no hold over current software.

The bugs they exploit have been patched, and updates have been available for a long time.

Unknown vulnerabilities are a problem... but first they have to be found to create a virus. Then the virus has to be identified before a signature can be created. By the time the signature has been created, the vulnerability has usually also been patched.

Therefore, people that keep their system reasonably up to date are not vulnerable to known viruses.

Therefore, the virus scanners are useless as the virus is no longer effective.

Second, the privilege mode separation between users and system software, plus sandboxing/compartmenting via SELinux provides an additional hurdle for virus infection - this limits the infection to the sandbox/compartment/user, and thus does not affect the rest of the system.

The remaining problem is poor applications - things that mix data and executable... (and here I start on the gnome problem with javascript - it mixes both data AND executable as they are the same javascript file). Even then, it is still compartmented to the user.

[Ihatewindows]

If MS provided updates as fast as Linux systems, it wouldn't have a problem either.

Instead, they dump all their updates on your machine once every week, thus increasing the size of your winsxs folder to around 15GB. (which is why I threw out my Windows 8 CP DVD.)

In answer to the original question, because we now know more of what you're looking for, all I can say is that no, a virus cannot creep over from your Fedora box to Windows around the corner. The worst that can happen is you getting a forced download executable in Linux, which you can turn down, or accept and watch it blow up in Wine. You can only get a virus in Windows if you run the exe. I like to use Win 2k not just for classic games, but also because my system folder is WINNT, which may throw a louzy programmed virus off. Unless you get something like Zeus. Look it up. I hate Zeus.
My advice: Only let Windows on the Internet once in a while to get updates unless you absolutely need it, and only open attachments in your email in Linux. By following these steps, you should be very safe.

And yes, for the record, I am using Windows 2000. No service packs.