Custom disk partitioning

[ddreggors]

Speaking solely about the installers disk partitioning tool, I found the custom partition tools painfully lacking.
I see where the developers are headed but there are some usability issues.

1. Lack of explanation
2. Lack of intuitiveness
3. Lack of features

I almost gave up on the custom partition because I was given 2 fields (mount point & partition size) in the add partition dialog.

The problem is as follows:

Partitions I wanted to created (standard)

/boot [ 500MB (ext4) ]
/ [ fill to maximum allowable (ext4) ]
swap [ 2048 (swap) ]

With the given fields (mount point & size) how do I say "fill to maximum allowable size" in the size fields for the root partition, and how does one create a swap partition WITHOUT a mount point?



For "/" I never found a way to say "fill to maximum allow size" for the root partition. I just had to set it to 1MB and then on use a calculator calculate the MB value from the displayed remaining size in GB (27.94GB). An average user that does not understand how many MB are in a GB will never get that. Not only is this not intuitive or explained, it seems it is lacking ability that has been there in almost any partitioning tool!


For "swap", I was able to figure out that leaving off the "/" and just writing "swap" in the mount point field was sufficient for the tool to understand.

This is NOT intuitive, without explanation a new user or one that does not fully understand file systems will never get that.

[DBelton]

I agree.

Just hope that you don't miscalculate your maximum size, too. If by chance you happen to size a partition greater than the amount of free space left, then the installer will rudely cancel on you.

Also, there needs to be an option to reuse the existing partitions, with options to either reformat them, or leave the current filesystem intact.

As it is currently, there is no way that you could install F18, but use an existing /home by using the installer.

I just hope they are planning to put these much needed features back in. Some of the other features they took out, they aren't planning to put back in.

[AdamW]

it's really unfinished at present. I'll check with the team that this stuff is expected to come back, but my expectation would be that it will. definitely check back at Beta, the design will be much closer to done by then.

[stevea]

btrfs subvolumes would be sweet, but probably beyond scope currently.

btrfs w/o creating subvolumes as various mountpoints and selecting a default subvol is pretty lame, and can't be corrected after installation.

[ddreggors]

Thanks Adam, I have every plan to follow the entire process. I am kind of hooked on Fedora and Gnome 3 too. Been a loyal Fedora guy from more than a few years now ;-)

Also, at the bottom of the partition list on the left, there is a small button to the right of the "+" and "-" buttons that has an icon that looks like cog wheels. I have yet to see it do anything. I clicked it while selected on a partition and while not selected. It shows up and down press (click/release) but nothing happens. Does anyone know what that is supposed to be?

I do like the direction the installer is taking though. I am sure Beta and Release will be great, keep up the good work guys.

+1 ddregors

The new layout of the installer has potential, but found the partionner falling short at its current state. I wanted to install F18 on already created logical volumes but the lack of clarity in the options put me off. Gonna keep using it in a VM and wait for the beta before trying the installer again.

[DBelton]

Originally Posted by ddreggors

Thanks Adam, I have every plan to follow the entire process. I am kind of hooked on Fedora and Gnome 3 too. Been a loyal Fedora guy from more than a few years now ;-)

Also, at the bottom of the partition list on the left, there is a small button to the right of the "+" and "-" buttons that has an icon that looks like cog wheels. I have yet to see it do anything. I clicked it while selected on a partition and while not selected. It shows up and down press (click/release) but nothing happens. Does anyone know what that is supposed to be?

I do like the direction the installer is taking though. I am sure Beta and Release will be great, keep up the good work guys.

The little cog wheel icon will bring up that right hand pane with the configuration options in it if it's not already there. I believe after the first time you display it, it stays up there, though, so the button really has no function once the configuration options are being displayed.

I too agree that Anaconda really needed the complete re-write and I like the way it's going. It's just there are a couple of little things about it I don't care too much for, like them taking away the ability to install more than one desktop, and the package customization. But that's the way it's going to be, I suppose.

Overall, I do like the new installer, though. Even if I really don't think it's ready for even an alpha. Its that I can visualize the anaconda team being rushed the entire F18 pre-release to get little things fixed that should have already been working and something major is going to drop through the cracks.

Seriously, that custom partitioning should have been written and tested months ago. That's some serious stuff there when you start talking about messing with people's data. It's something you don't want to be rushing patches in to fix bugs that delete entire drives. Any patches put in should have ample time to be given very thorough testing before the final release. Now with them relaxing some of the blocker criteria to push the alpha even with known data eating bugs, there isn't going to be another opportunity to get a wide user testing until the beta since a lot of people don't get the nightlies. I know I don't since nightlies don't have DVD images.

[AdamW]

dbelton: if anything it'll be the opposite: there's so much work left to do implementing and finishing major features that 'smaller' bugs won't get fixed. the worst case outcome for Final, I suspect, is not that major features won't be in place, but that everything will be broadly there but there'll be more bugs in it than you'd normally expect for a Final release.

[DBelton]

you're probably correct, Adam. But either way, they have lost a major widespread testing on the custom partitioning by not having it in the alpha. That means only one more widespread test between now and the final. Patches they put into it now won't get a thorough testing until the beta is released. Then it's patch those bugs and hope they don't break anything else in weird ways since there won't be another widespread testing until the Final.

It appears there is way too much left to put in, and too few testing opportunities remaining.

Originally Posted by AdamW

dbelton: if anything it'll be the opposite: there's so much work left to do implementing and finishing major features that 'smaller' bugs won't get fixed. the worst case outcome for Final, I suspect, is not that major features won't be in place, but that everything will be broadly there but there'll be more bugs in it than you'd normally expect for a Final release.

Did the gnome team develop anaconda as it's had all it's functional use ripped out

[DBelton]

Originally Posted by Yellowman

Did the gnome team develop anaconda as it's had all it's functional use ripped out

I have been wondering that very same thing myself!

I just hope that the rest of the Fedora team doesn't jump on board the same ship.

I am still trying to figure out how the install/firstboot process is supposed to determine how the system clock is set. It appears that it expects some form of telepathic input since there is no method to enter it through the keyboard/mouse interfaces.

Whatever method it uses, it appears to get it wrong if your system clock happens to be set to UTC (as is recommended for unix/linux systems)

Originally Posted by DBelton

I have been wondering that very same thing myself!

I just hope that the rest of the Fedora team doesn't jump on board the same ship.

I am still trying to figure out how the install/firstboot process is supposed to determine how the system clock is set. It appears that it expects some form of telepathic input since there is no method to enter it through the keyboard/mouse interfaces.

Whatever method it uses, it appears to get it wrong if your system clock happens to be set to UTC (as is recommended for unix/linux systems)

I tried the F18 DVD but threw it the bin when it couldn't cope with my custom partition setup.

# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 60.0 GB, 60022480896 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7297 cylinders, total 117231408 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00086248

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1            2048    38914047    19456000   83  Linux
/dev/sda2        38914048    77826047    19456000   83  Linux
/dev/sda3   *    77826048   117229567    19701760   83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x000a49b5

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1              63   195527114    97763526   83  Linux
/dev/sdb2       195528704   586147839   195309568    5  Extended
/dev/sdb3       586147840   790947839   102400000   83  Linux
/dev/sdb4   *   790947840   842147839    25600000   83  Linux
/dev/sdb5       195530752   217405439    10937344   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdb6       217407708   252525734    17559013+  83  Linux
/dev/sdb7       252525798   419344694    83409448+  83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdc: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 121601 cylinders, total 1953525168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x000b4f4e

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1   *        2048   124526591    62262272    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sdc2       124526592   976752639   426113024   83  Linux
/dev/sdc3       976754646  1953523711   488384533    5  Extended
/dev/sdc5       976754688  1220947967   122096640   83  Linux
/dev/sdc6      1220950016  1465630719   122340352   83  Linux
/dev/sdc7      1465632768  1587605503    60986368   83  Linux
/dev/sdc8      1587607623  1665860174    39126276   83  Linux

Well that was the end of my F18 installer testing.

[DBelton]

Nope, currently anaconda gets sick and blows big chunks with any existing partitioning, it appears.

I just had a standard, nothing fancy partition layout and anaconda just rudely cancelled when I went into the custom partitioning.

All anaconda can do currently is wipe your drive and stick a few partitions on it. Anything more, and it's a no-go.

Edit:

This is really pretty sad, since Fedora may lose quite a few alpha testers due to not being able to install it without completely wiping the drive. I fear the entire release may suffer because of this problem.

[Ales]

I can't speak in terms of general population of testers / early adopters, but I would have installed Fedora 18 on a couple of my day to day machines by now, if it werent for the current state of anaconda. I do make regular backups but still don't feel like wiping my entire home and data partitions, just to restore them back after the installation.

I usually start to use every second Fedora release, roughly in time of alpha. But looking at Fedora 18, it's just too rough right now. Poking it in a VM now and then just doesn't yieald nearly as much testing from me as actual usage would - I'm sure there are others who do better, though, so this is just my personal anecdote.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash the anaconda developers. Progress is a good thing. I mean, look how nicely is Cinnamon doing (yes, I *am* trying to bash gnome-shell developers).

It's just that this alpha seems to have sharp shiny edges, that's all.

[rtguille]

All anaconda can do currently is wipe your drive and stick a few partitions on it.

Actually, if you use Anaconda in TEXT mode, there is an additional: "use free space" option, and it works.
At least it worked when i tested.