The futuristic design of all Gnome Apps

[Gareth Jones]

Originally Posted by dragonbite

I already find Unity for usable than Gnome, though there are some nice features of Gnome-shell... just the UI is not one of them!

This isn't about GNOME Shell, so much as GNOME applications in general. Unless Ubuntu fork the entirety of GNOME (or switch desktops, or write their own, etc...), this'll affect Unity users too unfortunately (or fortunately if you like).

[dd_wizard]

Is it just me, or does that link look like apps run in full screen mode? I'd go bonkers if there was only one window visible at a time!

dd_wizard

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by dd_wizard

Is it just me, or does that link look like apps run in full screen mode? I'd go bonkers if there was only one window visible at a time!

dd_wizard

That's another of their "goals"

[Gareth Jones]

Originally Posted by dd_wizard

Is it just me, or does that link look like apps run in full screen mode? I'd go bonkers if there was only one window visible at a time!

The simplified programs, like Documents, run maximized by default, and show without a normal title-bar when maximized. They can be unmaximized though, and then they behave like normal windows (other than using the application menu for most of their commands). I'd hope there was a setting for disabling the maximize-by-default for large screens, but I haven't found one (or looked for one). I don't think the window manager is going away any time soon, unless GNOME decides not to properly support running external programs like Firefox/LibreOffice/GIMP, which would be stupid.

[ah7013]

Originally Posted by Gareth Jones

I'd hope there was a setting for disabling the maximize-by-default for large screens, but I haven't found one (or looked for one).

If you could use KWin in GNOME (is it possible?) then you could be able to set the default initial placement of all windows (e.g. Random or Maximizing) or just for specific applications like this:

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Gareth Jones

The simplified programs, like Documents, run maximized by default, and show without a normal title-bar when maximized. They can be unmaximized though, and then they behave like normal windows (other than using the application menu for most of their commands). I'd hope there was a setting for disabling the maximize-by-default for large screens, but I haven't found one (or looked for one). I don't think the window manager is going away any time soon, unless GNOME decides not to properly support running external programs like Firefox/LibreOffice/GIMP, which would be stupid.

Hmmmm.

Whilst thinking about this, the goals and responses and the mindset of the Gnome project in general these days, the following quote drifted up from the murky depths of memory. As I recall, it was attributed to "anonymous" at the time.

"When an honest man realizes that he has made a mistake, he will either cease to make that mistake ... or cease to be honest."

Therefore, to give them the benefit of the doubt, I can only conclude that they do not believe they are making any kind of mistakes.

If the future is indeed the realm of the tablet/smartphone, our intrepid Gnome-sters are on the right track. If, however, the time of the desktop is not yet over, or the tablet/smartphone of the future is more sophisticated than they predict (read: more screen real estate and better input systems) and they continue to try to force it to be less so ...

... all will not be nor go well in the Valley of the Gnomes.

Suffice it to say that if the Gnome project were a publicly traded business interest, any investments I would currently make there would be strictly short term and considered high risk.

[DBelton]

There are settings for some of the applications already in dconf-editor to specify the initial window state.

For example, nautilus... Go to org.gnome.nautilus.window-state and there is a checkbox to have it start maximized or not.

Hopefully this setting will be used (and not set to maximized by default) so that you can control how windows open up for you.

(I do have to admit that the changes shown for nautilus pretty much make it useless, though. Not much of a file manager application that they are showing there)

[Wayne]

I just can't see myself lugging a 27"monitor around. Sure, when I'm out, my 10.1 inch Android device is adequate but at home I need more real-estate! Gnome on a tablet=no, there are better options (excluding apple and windows) Umm, there's only one, then

[CubedRoot]

Originally Posted by flyingfsck

Basically the Gnome developers threw in the towel in the desktop war and conceded that KDE and even XFCE or LXDE are better and got tired of being an 'also ran', so they looked for a different ball park to play in. They sure found one.

RedHat will have to pick a different default DE for desktops though, because Gnome just doesn't do it.

Well, Red Hat isn't going to pick a different DE. I was at Summit 2012 2 weeks ago. Guess what the big announcement for RHEL 7 was? Gnome 3.5 or possibly 3.6. They had Jonathan Blandford from the Red Hat Desktop team in the Solutions area demoing RHEL7 running Gnome 3.5

Nobody I spoke with at Summit like it. I am a twice paying RHEL customer (major contracts with my company, and I have 1 self supported Workstation license personally) and I absolutely think its a terrible idea.

There was also talk that they weren't 100% sure on offering KDE in RHEL7 because it would increase support loads. I asked about XFCE and LXDE, they said it wasn't going to happen.

The Desktop guys did say that their goals was to move towards a "touch" interface meant for tablets. I got this answer when I asked why the dang title bars were so huge and took up so much space. Jonathan Blandford's answer: Thats because it gives you more room to grab it with your fingers. My response: I don't use my fingers on my dual 24" displays. As I questioned Mr. Blandford why RHEL was moving towards touch interfaces, his response was pretty astounding. "Its because Gartner predicts that tablets and touch-laptops will be the most sold product in the coming year or 2. They will replace your standard laptop and desktop". He also added "Nobody is buying full blown desktops anymore, they want tablets and touch screens."

To be honest, I wanted to say "you guys are idiots" and just walk away. So, there you have it. Gnome is moving towards touch interfaces because Gartner predicts we will stop buying conventional desktops, and start buying tablets and all-in-one touch screen computers.

[DBelton]

I believe they are trying to make a "self fulfilling" prophecy there.

If no OS will run properly on a desktop, then of course no one will purchase a desktop.

The main reason that desktop purchases have dwindled in the past few years is that NO new developments have happened in that area, and people are keeping the desktops they have rather than purchasing new ones. No reason to buy a new one.

If something new were to hit in the desktop hardware market, then there would be numerous people purchasing them.

And if RHEL doesn't offer other desktop options, then they will be cutting their own throat. Like I have already stated, I know just right off hand where there are 1500 desktop systems running RHEL that can't have Gnome 3 shell installed on them. So if there are no other desktop options offered, then right there, Redhat will lose 1500 licenses. That is just in one division of one installation. There are many more installations that would do the same thing.

[Gareth Jones]

Originally Posted by CubedRoot

As I questioned Mr. Blandford why RHEL was moving towards touch interfaces, his response was pretty astounding. "Its because Gartner predicts that tablets and touch-laptops will be the most sold product in the coming year or 2. They will replace your standard laptop and desktop". He also added "Nobody is buying full blown desktops anymore, they want tablets and touch screens."

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss touch interfaces – I dare say large touch-sensitive monitors for work-stations will become popular in the not-too-distant future. Touch has several advantages over a single mouse pointer, and as people get used to tablet and mobile interfaces, it won't be long before it feels natural to use touch-sensitive displays for proper computers too. It may also be desirable for corporate customers to be able to use tablets and mobile devices etc. with the same software base as their workstations.

I agree though that some form of workstation/desktop isn't going anywhere, even if it ultimately morphs into a wireless docking station for a mobile device to use a large touch-sensitive display and proper keyboard. I'd take RHEL's commitment to GNOME as ensuring that GNOME remains usable on more traditional machines. Which it currently is, if not to everyone's tastes.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Gareth Jones

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss touch interfaces – I dare say large touch-sensitive monitors for work-stations will become popular in the not-too-distant future. Touch has several advantages over a single mouse pointer, and as people get used to tablet and mobile interfaces, it won't be long before it feels natural to use touch-sensitive displays for proper computers too. It may also be desirable for corporate customers to be able to use tablets and mobile devices etc. with the same software base as their workstations.

...

Sadly ... agreed.

An obvious example is the touch screen cash register/ordering interface in most retail businesses these days. It's rare to see someone reach for a mouse.

Which doesn't mean I have to like it. <....>

[CubedRoot]

Originally Posted by Gareth Jones

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss touch interfaces – I dare say large touch-sensitive monitors for work-stations will become popular in the not-too-distant future. Touch has several advantages over a single mouse pointer, and as people get used to tablet and mobile interfaces, it won't be long before it feels natural to use touch-sensitive displays for proper computers too. It may also be desirable for corporate customers to be able to use tablets and mobile devices etc. with the same software base as their workstations.

I agree though that some form of workstation/desktop isn't going anywhere, even if it ultimately morphs into a wireless docking station for a mobile device to use a large touch-sensitive display and proper keyboard. I'd take RHEL's commitment to GNOME as ensuring that GNOME remains usable on more traditional machines. Which it currently is, if not to everyone's tastes.

I just don't see how I personally will use touch screens as my workstation. I have 2 24" monitors connected to my laptops docking station. They sit on my desk further away than my arm can reach. This is comfortable, and is ergonomic (I use a mechanical keyboard and nice mouse) that I can work here for 8 to 12 hours per day admining and developing my RHEL environment, from my RHEL 6 workstation.

Now, I have no idea how I would even setup mutiple monitors to give me the screen real-estate I have now, and still keep them within arms reach seeing as how the proper position is to have my arms extended to my keyboard. If I had the keyboard close enough to fit such giant beasts of touch-screenery my arms would be at a weird un-ergonnmic reach in order to accomodate the touch screens.

And you can forget about me loosing my mechanical keyboard to an on-screen touch keyboard. And for the other 100 or so folks in my immediate area, I don't see them doing the same.

While its nice to think that the world will be all one big "Minority Report" style interface, the reality of it is, thats just not practical ergonomically. But, don't get me wrong, I don't think tablets will be fading out. They have a very practical useage for consuming media....the key word here is CONSUMING media. I cringe everytime I have to type out an email or do any document processing on my Galaxy tab 10.1 or my iPad. Media CREATION is just absolutely horrible on touch interfaces without proper keyboard and mice.

This is how I feel about the whole desktop unification crap: I have 3 distinct devices (Android phone, Android Tablet, RHEL laptop/workstation) and I use them in 3 very distinct and different ways. I DO NOT want the experience on ANY single one of them to be dumbed-down to the lowest common denominator in an effort to make it "seam-less" across my devices.

Why don't the DE developers concentrate on a backend that is flexible enough to support different UI's depending on what device it happens to be running on? Sure, I like my big dumb icons on my tablet because my fat, un-precise fingers can click on them easier, but when I'm on my desktop, I have a VERY precise pointing instrument already attached....the mouse. I don't need huge icons with such a precise pointing instrument.

Maybe it's just me being a pretentious old fart (I'm 32 BTW, and have been a Linux Sys-admin for a while now), but dumbing down the desktop in an effort to "get ready" for touch interfaces is just plain stupid to me. I know what I like, and I am set in my ways, so sorry if thats offensive to the sensitive Gnome 3.* Devs or cheerleaders out there.

[Gareth Jones]

Originally Posted by CubedRoot

And you can forget about me loosing my mechanical keyboard to an on-screen touch keyboard. And for the other 100 or so folks in my immediate area, I don't see them doing the same.

I doubt keyboards are going anywhere soon; even these new dynamically-textured touch-screens can't replace a keyboard for serious typing yet. I suspect mice will be around a for a while yet too. (I hope so, because as much as I like the idea of touch-screens, I don't want fingerprints when I'm processing my digital photos!) Anyway that's what I was getting at when suggesting desktops are more likely to morph into docking stations than disappear, so proper peripherals can be used.

Why don't the DE developers concentrate on a backend that is flexible enough to support different UI's depending on what device it happens to be running on? Sure, I like my big dumb icons on my tablet because my fat, un-precise fingers can click on them easier, but when I'm on my desktop, I have a VERY precise pointing instrument already attached....the mouse. I don't need huge icons with such a precise pointing instrument.

I think that's more or less what KDE are doing with Plasma. I suppose the problem with that approach might be that applications would need multiple UIs too to fit each device profile, which complicates things.

Personally I find GNOME still works well for me, even at 2048x1152, but I don't know which will prove to be best approach in the end. Probably neither, maybe we'll have interactive holographic projection before the 2-D UI debates subside...

dumbing down the desktop in an effort to "get ready" for touch interfaces is just plain stupid to me. I know what I like, and I am set in my ways, so sorry if thats offensive to the sensitive Gnome 3.* Devs or cheerleaders out there.

Cheerleader? That's done it, you've offended me now!

The screenshots in post #1 look ****ing horrendous and totally unusable for any productive desktops.