Is anyone actually enjoying Gnome3?

Originally Posted by ElderSnake

I think that's the part that irks me the most sometimes. I don't doubt there are prima donna developers either, but they DO do the hard work at least (writing the code).

I don't see why users can't be more constructive in their criticism instead of acting as if they have been ripped off or something. This is coming from a user mind you, I am no developer (basic bash scripts are about my limit though I make good use of them) but I can happily put myself in their shoes for some perspective.

I'm a fedora, epel and rpmfusion package developer and I feel ripped off

[ElderSnake]

I'm assuming you refer to Gnome 3 Yellowman

[hadrons123]

I 'm late to this thread and I can read a lot of criticism about gnome in this thread, I 'm not sure if anyone would like my answer to the OP's question.

Is anyone actually enjoying Gnome3?

I DO. I use gnome3 and enjoy using it in my fedora , debian SID and Arch linux !

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by joncr

I have always found the "if you don't like it, write your own code" and "all this is a gift from developers so be quiet" positions to be offensive. They just rub me the wrong way.

I have not encountered that? Since the early days of Red Hat Linux, Yellow Dog Linux, Debian; FOSS has always been a learning - growing experience.

Gnome 3 (vanilla) is smooth, an elegant DE, and has a lot of hard work and development put into it.
It's not for me, but it is nice. I prefer Xfce and like the blend that is Fedora (16) Xfce. So Xfce is where I mostly focus my support.

Not sure how it serves the GNU/Linux community to tear down (any given) project, but it does strengthen and promotes growth when you support (any given) project.

[stevea]

There is a nice cartoon commentary on Facebook,


It could just as easily say "FOSS and YOU".

The motive of th Gnome developers is no doubt to make more money developing the desktop and getting paid by their advisory members like Canonical Ltd., Debian, Free Software Foundation, Google, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Igalia, Intel, Motorola, Mozilla Foundation, Nokia, Novell, OLPC, Red Hat, Software Freedom Law Center, Sugar Labs and Sun Microsystems.(circa 2010).

So let's get real - Gnome is paid for and it's features driven by the needs of these corporations, not the freeloader=user. Of course ONE aspect of the needs of these real customers is that the desktop be usable and likable by their paying end-users. Their paying end-users may well be part of a larger mass market with less specific and discerning requirements. In the case of RH the obvious classification of their paying customers are server users; and they don't spend a lot of time with the DE. We Fedoratos aren't the paying customers nor precisely the target market; we're a proxy - a guinea pig.

Originally Posted by joncr View Post
When developers assert and market their work as being something the general public should use instead of other software, then they forfeit all right to claim, arrogantly, they are doing users a favor.

Many errors,
- If you get something of value for free - they ARE doing you a favor.
- If they charge a market based price then it's a product, not a favor.

By making their software available for the public, and advertising it as better than the competition, the developers lose the right to cater only to their own whims.

Advertising claims don't a high standard for accuracy particularly on a subjective valuation like "better than XXX".
No one has lost any rights to do as they choose by making a typical advert claim.

it isn't whether someone is paying a developer or not that determines if he is obligated to pay attention to users. Rather, telling users "Hey! Look what I'm doing for you!" incurs that obligation.

So if I claim my software has mojo - this constitutes an OBLIGATION on my part to serve your interests ? Any court since medieval common law would laugh you out the door. Any CONTRACT requires a quid pro quo, an exchange of value. You've paid zero to Gnome, you've provided zero services or value to Gnome; so Gnome has zero obligation to you. It's just that easy. Are you perhaps one of these entitled-slackers we read about - everyone owes you the free software you want simply b/c you read a vague Advert claim ?

=========


I DO appreciate that the Gnomes are no doubt bright and dedicated ppl who do me the real favor of making their product freely available. They are obviously designing to a target market with requirements that differ significantly from my reqs. That is unfortunate from my POV, since they had a competitive DE with some (IMO) better features, but it's time for Gnome and I to part ways, and I don't mind telling them why.


We have every right to complain about the free lunch, just as the livestock in the cartoon.
Unlike the livestock - we aren't prisoners.
The Gnomes have every right to ignore the complaints.

[Doug G]

You guys crack me up perhaps these forums could be renamed the ostrichforums

Successful products encourage complaints, that's how the designers of the whatever-it-is know how to make things better. Back in the road warrior days as wise seatmate on the plain explained how the worst thing you can do to an organization that did you wrong is to never tell them about their problems.

And with that thought I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread. Gnome will get usable or it won't, I'll use it or I won't, we'll all appreciate the programmers or we won't, and no one will really care

[dragonbite]

Originally Posted by ElderSnake

I think that's the part that irks me the most sometimes. I don't doubt there are prima donna developers either, but they DO do the hard work at least (writing the code).

I don't see why users can't be more constructive in their criticism instead of acting as if they have been ripped off or something. This is coming from a user mind you, I am no developer (basic bash scripts are about my limit though I make good use of them) but I can happily put myself in their shoes for some perspective.

A lot of people think they are criticizing, when in fact they are just whining.

If people critiqued, then that would be different and probably more constructive.

[sea]

Originally Posted by dragonbite

A lot of people think they are criticizing, when in fact they are just whining.
If people critiqued, then that would be different and probably more constructive.

+1

Thats the price of our time, whine = critique, at least in (some) end-users minds.
Most bunch of people out there, expect you to know exactly what they mean by the sentence: It doesnt work!

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by Doug G

Successful products encourage complaints

Of course. Over the years the GNOME team (I can't believe I'm defending them!) have improved some things due to user complaints. But like any other group they have to filter out which complaints they feel are invalid or run counter to what they want to do. How do you think a complaint that vim should be more like notepad would be received by the vim developers, or if someone complained to the mutt developers that they should make a GUI? With F/OSS software, how to deal with complaints is at the developers' discretion, and you can't satisfy everyone; you seem to have your head in the sand about that.

Originally Posted by Doug G

I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread...and no one will really care

With that edited statement I can't argue.

[mrmylanman]

I don't really mind Gnome Shell. If I had my choice, it would have remained more like Gnome 2, but now thta it's here, it's okay. I haven't even changed Adwaita to something else (as I think it's a fairly slick looking theme).

As far as productivity goes, I'm glad it has extensive keyboard shortcuts, which makes it pretty quick to use.

The fact that the shell kinda sits in the background, as it were is nice. The programs should be the main focus, and I feel like that is the case with Gnome Shell. Most of my programming is done using vi (thinking of moving to emacs), I use evolution for email, and empathy for IM. So far haven't had any reliability issues, which is my number one concern, so I'm happy.

[satanselbow]

Being old enough to remember the DOS -> Windows "debate" ... really get over yourselves...

Originally Posted by satanselbow

Being old enough to remember the DOS -> Windows "debate" ... really get over yourselves...

I prefer DOS to gnome-shell

[satanselbow]

Originally Posted by Yellowman

I prefer DOS to gnome-shell

[jpollard]

I prefer to bash things around myself rather than use DOS or Gnome-shell.

[Fenrin]

I like the new navigation in Gnome 3. Also gnome 3 is compared to KDE a beautiful desktop. Compare this to this. What looks uglier?

If gnome 3 was not as good as it is, I would switch to XFCE.

Is anyone actually enjoying Gnome3?

yes I am enjoying it