Help me understand Windows

[smr54]

Ironically, that's one of the frequent complaints about Linux, wireless issues. The UX31E has been OK for me in Fedora--though pretty poor in Ubuntu. A friend asked me to put Ubuntu on his Portege? One of the newer ultra notebooks, but had to go back to WIndows because of wireless--on the other hand, Windows keeps crashing on him.

The things I hear from folks who try and give up on Linux, say around work--are usually either wireless, some printers--they usually work but will have limited features, and, as a few folks have said, just not wanting to learn something new.

While I understand the frustration, and aggravation of folks who use M$ and Win-blows, I think it's an insult that's outlived its time. Especially in any form of communication when you want to convince someone to change, using such terms is insulting what they're using now, with an implied insult towards said person--and insulting a person goes a LONG way towards closing their mind against your point of view.

But, that's just me, and if it gives you some satisfaction, go for it. However, I would strongly suggest not using it anywhere on your resume.

[Dan]

While I understand the frustration, and aggravation of folks who use M$ and Win-blows, I think it's an insult that's outlived its time. Especially in any form of communication when you want to convince someone to change, using such terms is insulting what they're using now, with an implied insult towards said person--and insulting a person goes a LONG way towards closing their mind against your point of view.

... However, I would strongly suggest not using it anywhere on your resume.

Ya think!? <....>

A friend asked me to put Ubuntu on his Portege? One of the newer ultra notebooks, but had to go back to WIndows because of wireless--on the other hand, Windows keeps crashing on him.

Hmmm. My little Portege R830 gets along perfectly with F16. The only issue I can really complain about is the 5hr max battery life under fedora. But ... as I can't stay awake in any meeting that goes much past 40 minutes ... that's not a real issue at all. We both just go straight into sleep mode and happily snore away the remainder.

[flyingfsck]

The much overlooked thing is that many people actually like maintaining Windows. This is the same as the fact that many people like maintaining old cars. The worst car in the world was the VW Beetle, but people loved working on it every weekend. It gives average Joe a sense of achievement.

[TK492]

A big issue for the average person is simply not knowing that there is an alternative to Windows (and Mac). The same way Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows back in the day was Netscape's demise. I guess bundling Windows with every PC/Laptop in store does the same job. It hides that fact that there is choice out there, and making it hard for Linux distributions for example to convince the average user to replace the OS which he/she payed for.

Along the same lines (and I believe Dan talked about it on the previous page), compatibility is a number one priority. In other words, you need to use the right tool for the right job. For example, in schools and offices Windows takes up a big chunk of the market share. So for a student or person working in said office, it only makes sense to use the same software. Yes there are alternatives and equivalences in Linux, but a great example that comes to mind is Microsoft Office. I completely agree that LibreOffice does a a great job and is even quite compatible with the .doc format. However since Office 2007, .dox becomes a nightmare to use cross-platform as the formatting goes to hell. (It's because of this PDF's have become a refuge for me to share final documents )

My 0.02$ on the topic, from a recent Windows->Linux user

[ElderSnake]

Originally Posted by Dan

If I had to, I could fairly easily get along with Windows 7®, and -- if I allowed myself to be guilt-free about it -- I'd probably enjoy it.

Same.

Well, yes and no.

Windows 7 and 8 (once you strip away Metro and install a 3rd party "classic" menu anyway) are a decent enough OS by themselves and pretty fast and in my experience somewhat reliable.

The problem is eventually I get extremely bored by Windows itself and hate how the OS tries to do what Microsoft want it to do, not what I want it to do.
I never have that feeling of freedom to do whatever the heck I want that I get in most GNU/Linux distros. On Windows I also typically use most free and open source softwares, like GIMP, Firefox, Libreoffice, Pidgin, Transmission Remote, Clementine, XBMC, Filezilla etc etc. Because I prefer them and the freedom they entail.

I use Windows simply for gaming. That's it. I have a lot of friends in the Steam community and a decent catalogue of games I enjoy. My girlfriend also uses Steam and plays games (with me as well, I cant believe how lucky I got there). Hopefully the whole dependence on Windows issue will change in time.

Only thing I will say is whilst I can do everything else in Linux, it seems with printers you can only do things like head cleaning and other maintenance using the Windows software. Which is a bit of a bummer and still require Windows for such tasks, even though the printer(s) do the actual job of printing just fine. I could be mistaken though.

[Finalzone]

Originally Posted by ElderSnake

Only thing I will say is whilst I can do everything else in Linux, it seems with printers you can only do things like head cleaning and other maintenance using the Windows software. Which is a bit of a bummer and still require Windows for such tasks, even though the printer(s) do the actual job of printing just fine. I could be mistaken though.

Modern printers do not need Windows software because they come with screen panel for those functions.

[Doug G]

Unsubscribing from this thread

[John the train]

Even for older printers Linux has escputil ( for Epson ), a package for HP printers ( been a while since I used that, can't recall the name ) and Puppy has ink monitoring for Canon. There may be others, but the above I've actually used.

Regarding ElderSnake's comments on Windows7, I sometimes use it on a donated computer at the railway where I volunteer, and I'd agree that it expects you to do things the way Microsoft think they should be done rather than how you want to do them. DISCLAIMER I moved from Windows ME to Linux ( FC4 ) and haven't used Windows on my personal hardware since, so the ' what they're familiar with ' argument may apply to my view of Windows7.

From the reviews I've seen in the computing magazines over here there seems to be a feeling that Microsoft is so focused on competing with Mac and Android in the tablet/smartphone field that Windows8 could meet a similar reaction to Gnome3's first appearance, ie a lot of people will stick with Windows7, at least until a more traditional desktop can be easily installed.

[ElderSnake]

Originally Posted by Finalzone

Modern printers do not need Windows software because they come with screen panel for those functions.

Ahh, so I'm just behind the times in printers

[sillav]

I can no longer follow all the cool linux guyism's for Windows (windoze, winblowz, windnoz's, windoe$, etc.).

But to respond to the title of the op's thread: If you need WINdows explained, you're doing it wrong.

Go ahead and find a single post from 1 of the multi millions of users of windows users who are confused about how to reboot or shutdown their computer.n

[smr54]

@finalzone, not necessarily. I've (eventually) managed to get my wireless printers working, but it would have been easier with Windows. This might be the fault of my router too, but the basic thing was that if I had Windows, I could have set it up through USB, then adjusted network settings through that connection.
There are some printers that are still not networked too, and for many folks, that will do.

As for me, I just wind up saying, "I HATE computers," and every Linux, Windows, OSX, and BSD user usually understands exactly what I mean.

[Dan]

Ayup!

[BBQdave]

Originally Posted by Finalzone

Modern printers do not need Windows software because they come with screen panel for those functions.

We went with a Mono Laser Samsung (ML-2955DW). A good network printer with Linux software for printer managing. As Finalzone says though, not necessary, as you can manage directly from the printer.

Did not need color printer, as I send photos and color prints to a local lab (can not print cheaper than the lab).

I am happy with this printer, and happy all machines on my home network can utilze it

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by Doug G

All this does is stop you from getting any rational responses to any posts you make inquiring about windows.

Not necessarily. Even some Windows users who don't use Linux use various derogatory names for Windows and Microsoft, based on their own experience with them. I prefer to not use those names, but it's not really that big a deal anyway.

As far as explaining Windows, as TK492 mentioned the new(ish) Office 2007 .docx format is a problem for people using Linux, since (from what I've seen) LibreOffice can't open those files yet. I've seen a few F/OSS command-line utilities for dealing with .docx files, but they usually don't work quite right. Unfortunately I get .docx files from people at work all the time so I need to keep a Windows system around. I have a spare machine with XP on it, and XP in a VirtualBox VM on my main machine. So Office lock-in alone will keep Windows around for a lot of people.

[Finalzone]

Originally Posted by smr54

@finalzone, not necessarily. I've (eventually) managed to get my wireless printers working, but it would have been easier with Windows. This might be the fault of my router too, but the basic thing was that if I had Windows, I could have set it up through USB, then adjusted network settings through that connection.

Which manufacturer and model of printer do you use for the network? Majority of vendors know provides drivers for network setting for any Linux distribution.

Originally Posted by RupertPupkin

As far as explaining Windows, as TK492 mentioned the new(ish) Office 2007 .docx format is a problem for people using Linux, since (from what I've seen) LibreOffice can't open those files yet. I've seen a few F/OSS command-line utilities for dealing with .docx files, but they usually don't work quite right. Unfortunately I get .docx files from people at work all the time so I need to keep a Windows system around. I have a spare machine with XP on it, and XP in a VirtualBox VM on my main machine. So Office lock-in alone will keep Windows around for a lot of people.

Newer version of LibreOffice (3.4 and up) can open .docx document (funny that sometime that format cannot be open with newer Office suite) though the formatting is not perfectly accurate. The lock-in is the result of political interference as majority of posters witnessed the deliberate corruption of ISO, and several international organization showing Microsoft cannot be trusted for inter-polarity.