Fedora Linux Support Community & Resources Center
  #1  
Old 2nd May 2012, 08:03 PM
snaok Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: United States East Coast
Posts: 9
linuxfirefox
backup hard drive advice

Hello,

I am fairly new here, been running fedora for a bit. When I initially installed fedora, I was using the live version and I accessed a external Western Digital (usb external) hard drive. I believe the drive is USB 2.0 but can be used as 1.0. After I accessed the drive from the fedora live distro it became corrupted.

I recently have gotten a seagate internal hard drive that I want to install in this (same) computer. I would like to access this from both fedora 16 64 and win xp 64, as backup storage.

Is this a realistic idea, or will I corrupt the drive as well?

I am running off of a (separate) hard drive in the machine right now, and I can put things into the windows ?partition? without difficulty, although windows doesn't seem to see the linux (fedora) partition.

Basically I want backup storage and to be able to access it, whatever I am using.

Thanks in advance,

snaok


the existing internal hard drive is reported -by the DIsk Utility- as;
Code:
C:\ 73 GB NTFS   |  524MB ext4 |  176GB LVM2 Physical Volume 176GB





info about the usb external drive:

Quote:
MY BOOK Essential


COMPATIBILTIY

Formatted NTFS for Windows XP, Windows Vista, or
Windows 7

Requires Reformatting for MAC OS X Tiger, Leopard
or Snow Leopard

...

Compatibility may vary depending on users hardware configuration and operating system

.....



MODEL:
WSBAAF0010HBK-NESN
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2nd May 2012, 10:40 PM
Gareth Jones Offline
Official Gnome 3 Sales Rep. (and Adminstrator)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 2,750
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Basically you either need format the drive with a file-system that both Linux and Windows can read and write, or use separate partitions for their back-ups.

As you've discovered, Linux can work with Windows' NTFS file-system, but Windows cannot understand Linux's ext4 format. You could also use the old Windows 95–Me vFAT32 file-system, which both support and is typically used on solid-state devices, such as USB sticks or SD cards. vFAT32 is better-supported by Linux than NTFS (generally faster and less likely to corrupt), but beware of the 4-GiB maximum file size.

Neither of the Windows native file-systems can store Linux file attributes (e.g. owners, permissions, etc.) or Linux special files (symbolic links, pipes, sockets and devices). There is also a risk that file names accepted by Linux (which are case-sensitive and allow any ASCII/Unicode character except '/' and NULL) won't work on Windows file-systems, because they are not case-sensitive (just case-preserving – usually), and disallow several characters and character-sequences due to Windows' DOS heritage.

Basically, whilst Linux can read from and write to Windows files-systems, they're not a good choice for system back-ups, unless you use tar to create an archive file. For just backing-up and sharing photos, music, videos and documents etc., you'll probably be okay with NTFS though, or vFAT32 if there're no huge video files. Just have an additional back-up externally or on one of the OS's own partitions, just in case.

Last edited by Gareth Jones; 2nd May 2012 at 10:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2nd May 2012, 11:04 PM
snaok Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: United States East Coast
Posts: 9
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Thank You Gareth,

for the thorough reply, I learned something.

I have to ask though, why would you want to have to backup your backup?

suffice it to say I appreciate what you have said but is their another dependable solution?

thanks,

snaok
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2nd May 2012, 11:12 PM
Gareth Jones Offline
Official Gnome 3 Sales Rep. (and Adminstrator)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 2,750
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Sorry, I chose my words poorly there. By "additional back-up" what I meant was simply: don't make an NTFS file-system the only place to store files shared between the OSes – make sure it is actually being used as a back-up. That way, if you do have any issues with the Linux NTFS driver corrupting the file-system (which it shouldn't, but you mentioned it had previously so I erred on the side of caution), you won't lose everything.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2nd May 2012, 11:26 PM
snaok Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: United States East Coast
Posts: 9
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Sorry I think I am misunderstanding,
how should I format the drive, with what file system?

** ^edit^ ***


Oh, I think I get it.

so just more or less partition the whole thing as NTFS? Format?




not too knowledgeable here,

but not making it bootable or installing anything on it. just formatting. then use my ordinary backup programs, whatever they may be (in fedora I would probably use the backup program that comes with it) windows I don't know yet..

Thanks,

snaok


incidentally, I think that the issue arose when Windows tried to access the drive. Linux could still read it just not Windows. Additionally, I think that these external drives have some sort of special partitioning layout to make them easy to use and they come with storage software ( that is not, Linux aware). I should have mentioned before that I didn't clean format that drive. That should probably be the next step, because that drive is already sort of messed up...

------------------------------------------------
----

Last edited by snaok; 2nd May 2012 at 11:51 PM. Reason: misunderstanding
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5th May 2012, 04:10 AM
BBQdave Offline
The Ubu-Grillmaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North Carolina
Age: 46
Posts: 1,921
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaok View Post
incidentally, I think that the issue arose when Windows tried to access the drive. Linux could still read it just not Windows. Additionally, I think that these external drives have some sort of special partitioning layout to make them easy to use and they come with storage software ( that is not, Linux aware). I should have mentioned before that I didn't clean format that drive.
has Gareth said, format your external drive to vFAT32. You can then access it from Windows, Linux, and Mac.

I have an old mac that I use as a file server, I back that up to an external drive that is formatted to vFAT32. The mac works well as a file server that I can access from my Linux notebook. When the mac finally fails, I have the external drive that is accessable by Windows, Mac and Linux.
__________________
On quest for blue smoke and red rings...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th May 2012, 07:14 AM
DBelton Offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,320
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaok View Post


incidentally, I think that the issue arose when Windows tried to access the drive. Linux could still read it just not Windows. Additionally, I think that these external drives have some sort of special partitioning layout to make them easy to use and they come with storage software ( that is not, Linux aware). I should have mentioned before that I didn't clean format that drive. That should probably be the next step, because that drive is already sort of messed up...

------------------------------------------------
----
Yes, they use their own unique partitioning, and it's a piece of crap. They have the SmartWare backup on a partition shows up as a "virtual CD" drive. Then they have a second partition for the actual data.

If you pull the drive out of the enclosure and hook it up to a SATA controller, it won't recognize the partitioning. Same thing if you wipe the drive and partition it on a standard SATA controller, then return it to the external enclosure, it will have to be repartitioned by the enclosure before it can be used.

What is even worse, You can't get rid of the Smartware crap on the drive. If you wipe the drive by connecting it to a standard SATA controller, then when you return it to the enclosure, partition and format the drive, the enclosure firmware puts the crapware back out on the drive.

I bought 3 of the 2TB drives a little over a year ago, and when I couldn't get rid of the Smartware crap, I took all 3 back to the store and got my money back.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5th May 2012, 10:12 AM
snaok Offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: United States East Coast
Posts: 9
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

Quote:
has Gareth said, format your external drive to vFAT32. You can then access it from Windows, Linux, and Mac.

I have an old mac that I use as a file server, I back that up to an external drive that is formatted to vFAT32. The mac works well as a file server that I can access from my Linux notebook. When the mac finally fails, I have the external drive that is accessable by Windows, Mac and Linux.
Thanks for the post, BBQdave, I had rethought the posting and replies and realized I probably missed that.
vFAT32; when I was going to attack this problem again, I was intending to try and research basic info about filesystems. Does it matter that I am using 64 bit?

Gareth indicated that vFAT32 may be better supported by linux, so might be a better choice than NTFS.

Quote:
I have an old mac that I use as a file server, I back that up to an external drive that is formatted to vFAT32. The mac works well as a file server that I can access from my Linux notebook. When the mac finally fails, I have the external drive that is accessable by Windows, Mac and Linux.
From this I gather that you have an independent computer for files and backup, which I hadn't entirely realized was common on such a small scale (single user at home). I was looking at FreeNAS and realized that you implement that on a available computer. In that case I guess you can FTP to it even if it matters if vFAT32 doesn't coordinate with 64 bit.




Quote:
Yes, they use their own unique partitioning, and it's a piece of crap. They have the SmartWare backup on a partition shows up as a "virtual CD" drive. Then they have a second partition for the actual data.

If you pull the drive out of the enclosure and hook it up to a SATA controller, it won't recognize the partitioning. Same thing if you wipe the drive and partition it on a standard SATA controller, then return it to the external enclosure, it will have to be repartitioned by the enclosure before it can be used.

What is even worse, You can't get rid of the Smartware crap on the drive. If you wipe the drive by connecting it to a standard SATA controller, then when you return it to the enclosure, partition and format the drive, the enclosure firmware puts the crapware back out on the drive.

I bought 3 of the 2TB drives a little over a year ago, and when I couldn't get rid of the Smartware crap, I took all 3 back to the store and got my money back.

DBelton,

I had experienced a certain dissatisfaction* with these drives myself. I thought that you could 'wipe' those drives although I hadn't tried, or I tried with the proprietary software and it couldn't, don't remember.. I have to try that, I can't believe it until I try, that seems really annoying.

I mean, its like "I bought the drive didn't I?"

Thanks,

snaok
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 5th May 2012, 01:48 PM
DBelton Offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,320
linuxfirefox
Re: backup hard drive advice

A lot of people share your opinion as well. Western Digital upset a lot of people with that "Smartware" crap on the drives that you can't get rid of (at least not if you want to use the drive in the original enclosure)

So you are purchasing a drive, but a little over 700MB is reserved for their crapware use, and you can't gain back the use of that space. (they have the files for Windows and also for Mac, and both take up a little over 700MB.) The only way to get the full use of the drive space is to pull the drive out of the enclosure, and wipe it, then partition and use it out of the enclosure. If you use it in the original enclosure, you go back to losing the 700MB or so of drive space.

I have never minded drive manufacturers putting software on hard drives I purchased, but usually, you could wipe the drive and their stuff is gone, so you didn't really lose any of the capacity that you purchased.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, backup, drive, hard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One backup hard drive working; the other not Boricua F15 Development 7 3rd May 2011 12:13 AM
Trying to Set a Second Internal Hard Drive for /home Backup Boricua Using Fedora 3 10th November 2008 05:37 PM
Backup Fedora 8 installation to another Hard Drive seby Using Fedora 3 11th February 2008 08:37 PM
hard drive backup? bigmacbb63 Hardware & Laptops 4 27th December 2007 08:06 AM
Backup server to second hard drive. jrmontg Using Fedora 0 1st December 2005 08:56 PM


Current GMT-time: 12:21 (Monday, 28-07-2014)

TopSubscribe to XML RSS for all Threads in all ForumsFedoraForumDotOrg Archive
logo

All trademarks, and forum posts in this site are property of their respective owner(s).
FedoraForum.org is privately owned and is not directly sponsored by the Fedora Project or Red Hat, Inc.

Privacy Policy | Term of Use | Posting Guidelines | Archive | Contact Us | Founding Members

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

FedoraForum is Powered by RedHat