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  #16  
Old 9th April 2012, 11:45 PM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Why not just stick with kernel 3.3.0.4, or whichever version still works, rather than changing your whole distribution?
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  #17  
Old 10th April 2012, 03:09 AM
jonathonp Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit138 View Post
Why not just stick with kernel 3.3.0.4, or whichever version still works, rather than changing your whole distribution?
The reason for that is fedora has failed on many fronts such as gnome 3 not just with kernel bugs which are a work in progress. For me i am running fedora 14 with lot's of updated packages. It's stable and does the job i need it to. Why not take a look at fuduntu and see how it shapes up?
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Last edited by jonathonp; 1st May 2012 at 12:10 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10th April 2012, 03:54 PM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit138 View Post
Why not just stick with kernel 3.3.0.4, or whichever version still works, rather than changing your whole distribution?
It works, but I was not exaggerating when I said I have to reset the wireless several times an hour (involving modprobe -r ath9k modprobe -i ath9k) - if you call that 'working'. And like I also said, no wireless at all on the latest kernels - 3.3.1.2 & 3.3.1.3.

Add to that, having speant several more hours trying to at least get the video sorted out, I discovered that there is no 'kernel-devel' available for the 'working' 3.3.0.4 - which is a prerequisite when junking Nouveau for Nvidia's own driver. So I had to 'downgrade' and install kernel 3.1.x.x, the only other one with 'kernel-devel' available for it. But thankfully, I at least have wireless with it, abeit with the 3.3.0.4 performance.

Another thing that yanked my chain was that the Fedora 16 developers have hard-coded the Nouveau driver-settings into 'initramfs.img', requiring this having to be rebuilt (via 'dracut') before Nvidia can install its video driver. This is a new 'innovation' on the part of the Fedora developers as I installed the very same Nvidia driver on my Fedora 14 installation without any such hassle.

This imo is just one step towards the developers trying to force users to use the Nouveau driver - which wouldn't be such a problem if it actually worked properly, which is doesn't!

Anyway, I eventually managed to install the Nvidia driver so at least that part of the problem has gone away.
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  #19  
Old 10th April 2012, 04:35 PM
jonathonp Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

i just installed Fuduntu http://www.fuduntu.org/ and added the fedora 14 repositories as well and I now have an excellent set-up. I also added some packages from the Fedora 14 RPMFusion repository which are not in the Fuduntu repository.
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  #20  
Old 10th April 2012, 04:53 PM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

My hesitation in trying out Fuduntu is twofold - first, all the work I've put into fc16 trying to get it to work properly, and second, I also do most of my work from a laptop, but mine has a tiny 80gig hard disk which is already jam-packed, so if I opt to try Fuduntu it will be replacing either fc14 or fc16 - the latter obviously - hence my hesitation. I've already been down this road with fc15 - that turned out to be a real turkey, encountering multiple unsurmountable problems, only to be replaced by Mageia. But I had various problems with that as well, so decided the give the newer Fedora another try - something I'm regetting...
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  #21  
Old 10th April 2012, 11:30 PM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by omelette View Post
It works, but I was not exaggerating when I said I have to reset the wireless several times an hour (involving modprobe -r ath9k modprobe -i ath9k) - if you call that 'working'. And like I also said, no wireless at all on the latest kernels - 3.3.1.2 & 3.3.1.3.

Add to that, having speant several more hours trying to at least get the video sorted out, I discovered that there is no 'kernel-devel' available for the 'working' 3.3.0.4 - which is a prerequisite when junking Nouveau for Nvidia's own driver. So I had to 'downgrade' and install kernel 3.1.x.x, the only other one with 'kernel-devel' available for it. But thankfully, I at least have wireless with it, abeit with the 3.3.0.4 performance.

Another thing that yanked my chain was that the Fedora 16 developers have hard-coded the Nouveau driver-settings into 'initramfs.img', requiring this having to be rebuilt (via 'dracut') before Nvidia can install its video driver. This is a new 'innovation' on the part of the Fedora developers as I installed the very same Nvidia driver on my Fedora 14 installation without any such hassle.

This imo is just one step towards the developers trying to force users to use the Nouveau driver - which wouldn't be such a problem if it actually worked properly, which is doesn't!

Anyway, I eventually managed to install the Nvidia driver so at least that part of the problem has gone away.
None of what you are describing actually sound like showstoppers, though.
Using GNU/Linux in any flavor will always require interactive user involvement. It's just the nature of forward rolling open source software.

If your initramfs requires rebuilding, you rebuild it.

Find a kernel which gives you optimal performance and use it; if you need to compile your own kernel, why not grab the sources and compile it?

There are many choices and no limit to availability with open source software,
sources and packages.

Computer operating system annoyances will always haunt us if we do not become more proactive and willing to solve such trivial issues.
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  #22  
Old 15th April 2012, 03:16 PM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit138 View Post
None of what you are describing actually sound like showstoppers, though.
Using GNU/Linux in any flavor will always require interactive user involvement. It's just the nature of forward rolling open source software.

If your initramfs requires rebuilding, you rebuild it.

Find a kernel which gives you optimal performance and use it; if you need to compile your own kernel, why not grab the sources and compile it?

There are many choices and no limit to availability with open source software,
sources and packages.

Computer operating system annoyances will always haunt us if we do not become more proactive and willing to solve such trivial issues.
Maybe not "show-stoppers" for someone who deems such as being "trivial issues", but for 'mere users' like myself (despite 6 years of continuous Linux use) definitely pause-for-thought time!

For what it's worth, I did rebuild initramfs and banished Nouveau to Hades. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of non-proprietary video-drivers, but Nouveau simply does not work at all on my laptop, so I think it is a bit presumptious of Fedora to be taking steps to 'hard-wire' Nouveau into the system when it's at best still only delivering beta-performance.

It's the wireless that really has me rattled - how can several kernel versions be built in succession where a popular Atheros card has no connectivity whatsoever! There must be 1000's out there suffering the same problem - and indeed as I mentioned, I've found post complaining about this. It is also a 'regression' of some kind as fc14's 2.6.35.106 kernel is super-usable in comparasion (though still not perfect).

And last night I downloaded & installed the latest 'just-built' 3.3.2.1 kernel - within 5min I was without a network connection again, so no fix as of yet...

---------- Post added at 06:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathonp View Post
i just installed Fuduntu http://www.fuduntu.org/ and added the fedora 14 repositories as well and I now have an excellent set-up. I also added some packages from the Fedora 14 RPMFusion repository which are not in the Fuduntu repository. I still use Fedora 16 on my pc and will continue to keep up with what's happening with Fedora but my notebook is where I get real work done and Fuduntu has replaced the Fedora 16 experiment. Their is no reason why Fedora can't provide a decent desktop for the community. Forcing Gnome 3 upon us all has fractured the community and wasted a lot of people's time when testing it for the developers.

In case people are not sure about what Fuduntu is, it's a fork of Fedora 14. Therefore it is an updated version of Fedora 14 in it's current state.
A question about Fufuntu if I may, I've just been to "Distrowatch" looking for a 'replacement OS' and see that Fuduntu (as well as practically all other LInux flavours there) are using "Gnome-shell 3.4.0" - does Fuduntu use the same desktop that fc15/16 drops down to when it finds that old hardware doesn't support Gnome3?

If so, I gotta say that I was not too impressed with this either as it is but a pale-imitation of Gnome2 - no panel-applets for instance. This was a really cool feature of Gnome2, especially having the miniaturised version of System-monitor graphically-displayed all the time, and knowing at a glance when some program has hung once again (Nautilus being a favourite!) - without having to rely on the laptops cooling-fan for this!

PS. I was staggered at how the popularity-statistics have changed at Distrowatch - Mint has now twice as many downloads as both once-top-contenders Ubuntu & Fedora - it would appear that the people really have spoken, with actions, not words! And I bet Gnome3 is the reason for the mass-exodus...
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  #23  
Old 15th April 2012, 03:27 PM
jonathonp Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

I am using Fuduntu right now.

jonathon@localhost ~ $
Code:
rpm -q gnome-desktop
gnome-desktop-2.32.0-2.fc14.x86_64
You can add the fedora 14 repositories and install any package. I don't think Fuduntu is an imitation of fedora 14. It is Fedora 14 compiled from source with updated packages.

jonathon@localhost ~ $
Code:
rpm -q kernel
kernel-3.1.6-1.fu14.x86_64
kernel-3.2.9-1.fu2012.x86_64
kernel-3.2.13-1.fu2012.x86_64
The end of the day, gnome 2 does a better job for myself. I can see the developers point of view here regarding gnome future development however that does nothing for the current user base who want a system that works for them.
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Last edited by jonathonp; 1st May 2012 at 12:13 PM.
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  #24  
Old 15th April 2012, 06:31 PM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by omelette View Post
Maybe not "show-stoppers" for someone who deems such as being "trivial issues", but for 'mere users' like myself (despite 6 years of continuous Linux use) definitely pause-for-thought time!

For what it's worth, I did rebuild initramfs and banished Nouveau to Hades. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of non-proprietary video-drivers, but Nouveau simply does not work at all on my laptop, so I think it is a bit presumptious of Fedora to be taking steps to 'hard-wire' Nouveau into the system when it's at best still only delivering beta-performance.

It's the wireless that really has me rattled - how can several kernel versions be built in succession where a popular Atheros card has no connectivity whatsoever! There must be 1000's out there suffering the same problem - and indeed as I mentioned, I've found post complaining about this. It is also a 'regression' of some kind as fc14's 2.6.35.106 kernel is super-usable in comparasion (though still not perfect).

And last night I downloaded & installed the latest 'just-built' 3.3.2.1 kernel - within 5min I was without a network connection again, so no fix as of yet.....
Have you compiled the last stable kernel version for you? If not, head over to kernel.org and download, compile and install your optimal kernel version.
If it is in fact an issue of using the right kernel, that should do it.

As far as the Nouveau driver, besides Vesa, it is the only appropriate driver for nVidia hardware as Fedora ships without proprietary software by default. Unfortunately for some, user intervention will be a reality due to some incompatibility.

Switching X drivers shouldn't be viewed as much of an obstacle. Think of it this way; Once you've done it about 1000 times you'll be an expert.
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  #25  
Old 16th April 2012, 04:29 PM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit138 View Post
Have you compiled the last stable kernel version for you? If not, head over to kernel.org and download, compile and install your optimal kernel version.
If it is in fact an issue of using the right kernel, that should do it.
No I haven't - and I don't intend to!

But as it happens one of my first personal 'milestones' with Linux was actually managing to compile the kernel - although it was on a reasonably fast dual-core computer, it still took around 5 hours to complete! And something I have to wish to repeat either! I did develop a new-found respect for the guys that do this day-in, day-out though.

---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathonp View Post
I am using Fuduntu right now....
So am I! Or at least I was, I'm back on fc14 atm.

Well, I downloaded & installed Fuduntu - fc16 is no more. First impressions: Nouveau works perfectly - that I don't understand, Nouveau has never worked properly with Fedora on my laptop, yet according to 'dmesg',Fuduntu identifies my video hardware without a hitch! So it's great to be finally done with that Nvidia crap - even version 295 doesn't work properly, periodically the screen becomes garbled, but just for an instant, like an old telly that's lost horizontal-sync. The Atheros-wireless problem is still there I'm sad to report, however it's somewhat alleviated by the fact that Network Manager doesn't just disconnect like it does on fc16, losing the internet-connection instead, ala fc14 - so all that's required is a click on the network-name and it's up & running again. The only real issue I've come across so far is that Grub 0.97 doesn't detect my fc14 installation. Neither does Grub2 for that matter - I first installed Grub2 manually on Fuduntu, successfully as it happens, and expected to see a Grub2 entry on Grub1's bootloader - as happens with fc14 - but nada! I then removed Grub1 and installed Grub2 on the fc14 partition, hoping fc14 would pick up Fuduntu when it boots, but no joy there either. So I'm presently stuck with having to use the Hiren rescue-CD to switch to either fc14 or Fuduntu which is kinda lame! A subject for another thread though...

I'm well-pleased about Nouveau though.
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  #26  
Old 16th April 2012, 09:41 PM
Misfit138 Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

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Originally Posted by omelette View Post
No I haven't - and I don't intend to!

But as it happens one of my first personal 'milestones' with Linux was actually managing to compile the kernel - although it was on a reasonably fast dual-core computer, it still took around 5 hours to complete! And something I have to wish to repeat either! I did develop a new-found respect for the guys that do this day-in, day-out though...
There are a few very well written and comprehensive guides available.
Here is one you should be able to follow line-for-line without much problem. (Instead of using the mkinitcpio command, obviously, you would use dracut on Fedora if you need an initramfs).
It should not take 5 hours. Probably more like 20 minutes on a relatively modern machine.
Enjoy.
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  #27  
Old 17th April 2012, 01:12 AM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit138 View Post
...It should not take 5 hours. Probably more like 20 minutes on a relatively modern machine.
Enjoy.


Wow, I must have done something seriously wrong at the time! It was Tiny Linux, kernel 2.6.24 I think and I was trying to get it to recognise my 3G modem. That almost put me off ever compiling anything again!

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.
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  #28  
Old 17th April 2012, 05:34 PM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

@Misfit135 - As you seem knowledgeable in these matters I have a little question - do do know if it would be possible (and easy!) to compile a new'ish kernel (say 3.3.2.1 for example) but with the ath9k source-code from kernel 2.6.35.14-106? In other words, have all the added goodies of the new kernel but without all the bugs of the current ath9k! (at least for AR5008 chipsets)

FWIW Although the wireless is usable with the latest kernel on Fuduntu, it's only just - downloading a 21meg package saw it cut-out 5 times, each time needing the wireless to be reset. The package was the Fedora kernel 2.6.35.14-106 as it happens, and I was elated to find that it installed without a hitch! So wireless is usable again.
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  #29  
Old 1st May 2012, 04:28 PM
omelette Offline
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Re: install kernel 3.x.x.x.x on Fedora 14

Just a little addendum regarding a realisation/discovery I have just made in relation to my AR5008 wireless problems in case it may be of benefit to others..

When as a last-resort, I tried swapping the Atheros cards around, putting the AR5008 in the mini-pc (Ubuntu-based) & the AR928x in the laptop - the problems went away! Try as I might now, after sending & receiving many Gigs between the pc's, I cannot get the wireless to break.

The problem seems to have been a incompatibility between the Dell laptop and the AR5008.
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