Fedora18 Schedule & Feature List

#1 4th April 2012, 01:59 AM

Fedora18 Feature List

Fedora18 Schedule No Schedule as of yet

FAQ: Do I Need To Reinstall Fedora18 Final Release When its Out?

Answer: No. Just Keep Your System Up To Date on a Daily Basis And it Will Switch Automatically to The Final Release

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewInstallerUI

jvillain · #2 20th June 2012, 12:57 AM

I was just looking at this <cough> feature. Offline Updates using systemd and PackageKit

Is it now going to be mandatory to boot into the equivalent of single user mode in order to update packages? If so I am going to be deeply pissed. If Solaris admins hate Linux why don't they just use Solaris rather than continuously forcing Linux to be Solaris. Updates take up to an hour as it is, due to rebuilding meta data. If the machine has to be off line for an hour for a trivial update we have a real problem.

smr54 · #3 20th June 2012, 01:48 AM

Wow, hope not. Or if it is, hope that RH doesn't blithely throw it into their server releases.

Looks like, however, that it's only an option, not mandatory.

Quote:

Note that this feature does not prevent you from using yum and other commandline tools to install updates whenever you want to. We also differentiate updates of 'OS components' (which we want to do in this offline fashion) from application updates and installations, which should still be possible from the UI without restarting the system.

cazo · #4 20th June 2012, 05:24 AM

I understood that to mean certain updates (maybe kernel?) will work more like yum 'preupgrade' does now - the updates get downloaded in the background, then you reboot into a 'safe mode' for the updates to be installed, then continue on into 'normal mode'.

It does remind my of my brief experience with Vista, where updates are downloaded before you are nagged to reboot so they can be installed. When you do, you have to wait while the updates install before you can log in to find what didn't install.

jvillain · #5 20th June 2012, 09:35 PM

With Vista it used to take 3 or 4 reboots to get the updates done and the machine is completely useless while that happens. For people where up time is important this is bad. Yo, boss I want to take the prod database off line for updates. How long? No idea. What do you mean fired?

deanej · #6 21st June 2012, 02:35 AM

Seriously, not having to reboot for updates is one of my favorite things about Linux.

***DBelton*** · #7 21st June 2012, 03:57 AM

Looks to me that by doing "offline updates" then a lot of people aren't going to be keeping their system up to date.

Me, I update, then I may or may not reboot depending upon what updates are installed. I will not be using the offline updates at all. If I don't have a way to update the system as I normally do, then it won't get updated.

SlowJet · #8 24th June 2012, 10:37 PM

Gee, a context in which to actually use the expression, "Seriously?"

From rawhide, keep updating, to ALPHA, to BETA, to Final, as defined by fedora-release-nn-nn-fcnn.rpm (which changes any repos as neeeded.
NOT, updating from F17 to F18.
Offline updates? An rpm is an rpm and is installed, updated, erased by rpm.
I use a usb stick to truck a load to my off-line Beefy ranch.

SJ

Colors · #9 26th June 2012, 10:13 PM

Maybe it's not what an experienced user want but i see this move as the begining of desktop linux or linux for the masses. I installed Fedora on many computers and broken updates was a real issue. If linux is espected to "take the world" it needs to deal with users as they are in the Windows world.

SlowJet · #10 26th June 2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colors

Maybe it's not what an experienced user want but i see this move as the begining of desktop linux or linux for the masses. I installed Fedora on many computers and broken updates was a real issue. If linux is espected to "take the world" it needs to deal with users as they are in the Windows world.

Fedora is a fast paced developement distrobution of Linux.
I think you want Redhat 6.2+, which is a long time ago from F17 or F18, but meets Redhat's server market.

Linux is not staged to take the world, just provide great software to use by anyone.

SJ

deanej · #11 27th June 2012, 01:40 AM

How does forcing people to install updates separably from doing other work make linux more suitable for a normal user? I've never even heard of this broken update issue...

smr54 · #12 27th June 2012, 02:04 AM

This is getting reminiscent of slashdot--where folks read an inflammatory summary and then answer the facts, as shown in the summary, without reading the original article being summarized.

No one is being forced to do anything. As I understand it, if you prefer a GUI tool to install and update your system, it does stuff to make it less likely to break things. I suspect (but don't know, because, not using a GUI tool, I haven't investigated it any further), that you can avoid it, even with GUI tools. For all who use yum to update their systems, it will be just the way it was.

SlowJet · #13 27th June 2012, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanej

How does forcing people to install updates separably from doing other work make linux more suitable for a normal user? I've never even heard of this broken update issue...

Rawhide is broken here and there through the devel cycle.

yum and rpm on a relesed cycle are very stable for the most part.
If one only uses update, and not updates-testing or koji repos, it is rare that there is a problem except for non core dvd programs that not everyone uses.

Got to go, just came back to the library to get the newest koji kernel for f17.

SJ

Colors · #14 27th June 2012, 06:52 AM

Most common action is to shut down or restart the pc in the middle of an automatic update. I do my updates manually but for the average user who needs only libreoffice and internet browsing you cannot ask him that, simply because he don't have a clue and has no interest anyway.

If you "provide great software to use by anyone" you better keep in mind that people don't bother about freedom, they want little interaction with their computers and no hassle with "silly updates" and so on. That's why locked down software is all they need.

Linux is great as OS but it's about market and money and slowly will become more window-ish, more polished and comfortable in using it. This is not something wrong and i personally have waited for a long time this feature.

deanej · #15 27th June 2012, 06:03 PM

So we're supposed to throw us more advanced users under the bus because some people are, quite frankly, too dumb to use a computer?

And auto updates is not the same thing as requiring a reboot to update. I believe Fedora can be configured to do auto updates now. I have only had to restart for an update once in my history of using Linux, and rebooting takes a LOT longer than logging of and logging back in (ESPECIALLY with Gnome 3 being such a heavy window manager), especially if the updates have to be installed during the reboot (a la Windows 7) instead of before (a la Windows XP).

And this all has to happen while I'm there, because I sleep in the same room my computer is in and need to put my laptop into standby every night to keep the light level down (it's also good to give the laptop a chance to cool down).