Fedora18 Schedule & Feature List

#1 4th April 2012, 01:59 AM

Fedora18 Feature List

Fedora18 Schedule No Schedule as of yet

FAQ: Do I Need To Reinstall Fedora18 Final Release When its Out?

Answer: No. Just Keep Your System Up To Date on a Daily Basis And it Will Switch Automatically to The Final Release

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewInstallerUI

jvillain · #2 20th June 2012, 12:57 AM

I was just looking at this <cough> feature. Offline Updates using systemd and PackageKit

Is it now going to be mandatory to boot into the equivalent of single user mode in order to update packages? If so I am going to be deeply pissed. If Solaris admins hate Linux why don't they just use Solaris rather than continuously forcing Linux to be Solaris. Updates take up to an hour as it is, due to rebuilding meta data. If the machine has to be off line for an hour for a trivial update we have a real problem.

lsatenstein · #3 8th November 2012, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvillain

I was just looking at this <cough> feature. Offline Updates using systemd and PackageKit

Is it now going to be mandatory to boot into the equivalent of single user mode in order to update packages? If so I am going to be deeply pissed. If Solaris admins hate Linux why don't they just use Solaris rather than continuously forcing Linux to be Solaris. Updates take up to an hour as it is, due to rebuilding meta data. If the machine has to be off line for an hour for a trivial update we have a real problem.

++++++++
If the update is not touching the kernel or associated libraries related files, or the GUI directly, why the single mode. Yum should be smart enough to review the packages that it downloads before it does the installation, and if single mode is required, then yum should initiate it. The way I see it happening is as it happens in Windows. You set everything up and ask to reboot.
On the way to reboot, half the setup is completed, and after reboot, the remainder is executed.
This operation keeps the system from corruption

lsatenstein · #4 18th November 2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvillain

I was just looking at this <cough> feature. Offline Updates using systemd and PackageKit

Is it now going to be mandatory to boot into the equivalent of single user mode in order to update packages? If so I am going to be deeply pissed. If Solaris admins hate Linux why don't they just use Solaris rather than continuously forcing Linux to be Solaris. Updates take up to an hour as it is, due to rebuilding meta data. If the machine has to be off line for an hour for a trivial update we have a real problem.

Note that this feature does not prevent you from using yum and other commandline tools to install updates whenever you want to. We also differentiate updates of 'OS components' (which we want to do in this offline fashion) from application updates and installations, which should still be possible from the UI without restarting the system.

The differentiation between 'OS components' and applications is necessarily a heuristic, since Fedora only knows about packages. The initial heuristic is that a package is considered an application if it installs a desktop file that is shown in the menus. This is not perfect and can be refined when additional metadata becomes available.

Also note that this feature is about implementing offline updates for GNOME. Other spins are not affected, although they could choose to use the same systemd and PackageKit infrastructure, and provide a similar experience.

lsatenstein · #5 27th December 2012, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvillain

I was just looking at this <cough> feature. Offline Updates using systemd and PackageKit

Is it now going to be mandatory to boot into the equivalent of single user mode in order to update packages? If so I am going to be deeply pissed. If Solaris admins hate Linux why don't they just use Solaris rather than continuously forcing Linux to be Solaris. Updates take up to an hour as it is, due to rebuilding meta data. If the machine has to be off line for an hour for a trivial update we have a real problem.

===
The updates will work in a safe way. If you have updates that do not touch the kernel or bash, or anything critical to the operating system, things will work as before.

If you install some new update for kernel libraries or have updates to something that affects Linux, on your shutdown updates will installed.

Of course, if your version of Fedora is not broken, you may forego updates for as long as you want.

smr54 · #6 20th June 2012, 01:48 AM

Wow, hope not. Or if it is, hope that RH doesn't blithely throw it into their server releases.

Looks like, however, that it's only an option, not mandatory.

Quote:

Note that this feature does not prevent you from using yum and other commandline tools to install updates whenever you want to. We also differentiate updates of 'OS components' (which we want to do in this offline fashion) from application updates and installations, which should still be possible from the UI without restarting the system.

cazo · #7 20th June 2012, 05:24 AM

I understood that to mean certain updates (maybe kernel?) will work more like yum 'preupgrade' does now - the updates get downloaded in the background, then you reboot into a 'safe mode' for the updates to be installed, then continue on into 'normal mode'.

It does remind my of my brief experience with Vista, where updates are downloaded before you are nagged to reboot so they can be installed. When you do, you have to wait while the updates install before you can log in to find what didn't install.

jvillain · #8 20th June 2012, 09:35 PM

With Vista it used to take 3 or 4 reboots to get the updates done and the machine is completely useless while that happens. For people where up time is important this is bad. Yo, boss I want to take the prod database off line for updates. How long? No idea. What do you mean fired?

deanej · #9 21st June 2012, 02:35 AM

Seriously, not having to reboot for updates is one of my favorite things about Linux.

lsatenstein · #10 8th October 2012, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanej

Seriously, not having to reboot for updates is one of my favorite things about Linux.

For application programs and all files not associated with the kernel, you do not require taking the system off-line, unless.... (the hooker), going off line updates a global library or link.

With the kernel, a kernel update may require changes to parameter files, or even replacement libraries. It is not always possible to do a hot-swap to a library, if the library is not closed (and released by the old kernel before the new one can take over), functions in the new kernel may not exist in the previous version. etc. etc. Therefore, rely on the author to determine if kernel updates require a reboot. You may also decide to not reboot until a convenient time.

lsatenstein · #11 29th December 2012, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanej

Seriously, not having to reboot for updates is one of my favorite things about Linux.

For all updates, except kernel or kernel related, you just apply them. The kernel ones will be applied when you signal shutdown.

You cannot update a kernel's dynamic libraries, when the new libraries have a different (new or eliminated) functionality, but the same physical name on disk. Doing so would crash the system.

***DBelton*** · #12 21st June 2012, 03:57 AM

Looks to me that by doing "offline updates" then a lot of people aren't going to be keeping their system up to date.

Me, I update, then I may or may not reboot depending upon what updates are installed. I will not be using the offline updates at all. If I don't have a way to update the system as I normally do, then it won't get updated.

SlowJet · #13 24th June 2012, 10:37 PM

Gee, a context in which to actually use the expression, "Seriously?"

From rawhide, keep updating, to ALPHA, to BETA, to Final, as defined by fedora-release-nn-nn-fcnn.rpm (which changes any repos as neeeded.
NOT, updating from F17 to F18.
Offline updates? An rpm is an rpm and is installed, updated, erased by rpm.
I use a usb stick to truck a load to my off-line Beefy ranch.

SJ

Colors · #14 26th June 2012, 10:13 PM

Maybe it's not what an experienced user want but i see this move as the begining of desktop linux or linux for the masses. I installed Fedora on many computers and broken updates was a real issue. If linux is espected to "take the world" it needs to deal with users as they are in the Windows world.

SlowJet · #15 26th June 2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colors

Maybe it's not what an experienced user want but i see this move as the begining of desktop linux or linux for the masses. I installed Fedora on many computers and broken updates was a real issue. If linux is espected to "take the world" it needs to deal with users as they are in the Windows world.

Fedora is a fast paced developement distrobution of Linux.
I think you want Redhat 6.2+, which is a long time ago from F17 or F18, but meets Redhat's server market.

Linux is not staged to take the world, just provide great software to use by anyone.

SJ