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  #1  
Old 21st March 2012, 01:52 PM
bob Online
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Tom's Hardware Review

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...view,3155.html

Certainly not the kindest review I've read, but it's the most in-depth and at least seems to be an even-handed attempt at comparing Fedora, Ubuntu and Windows7. Also, there's a lot of tweak tips mentioned, which is worth the read if for nothing else.
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  #2  
Old 21st March 2012, 03:34 PM
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Arrow An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

I found this on on Tom's Hardware article Fedora 16 And GNOME Shell: Tested And Reviewed and thought it was an interesting conclusion.
Quote:
Conclusion
The only thing really wrong with Fedora 16 is the choice of GNOME 3 as its default desktop environment. This distribution is for the people who make Linux, not for the Win/Mac converts. GNOME Shell is most obviously intended for the uninitiated masses, not the developers. Putting aside any gripes we may have with it, from it's very inception, GNOME 3 simply wasn't the right fit for Fedora.
Do you think this is an accurate overall view of not only Gnome 3 but Fedora as well?
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  #3  
Old 21st March 2012, 03:59 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

Acutaly, its just the same bob had linked:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=277859
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  #4  
Old 21st March 2012, 04:33 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

Yep, I got there first, plus I put mine in the correct Forum ('cause I made that one, so I know it's right ).

Anyway, it's a good topic for discussion.
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  #5  
Old 21st March 2012, 05:25 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

A very good topic for discussion (as long as I can keep my Gnome 3 bashing in check )

That is a very good review, one of the best and most unbiased reviews I have seen. It tells it like it is, and presents both sides to some of the arguments. The author of the article, Adam Overa, really presents things in a good way. I like his style
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  #6  
Old 21st March 2012, 09:24 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

I was less impressed myself. I read it as just another user projecting his own opinions (or those he's picked up on in his own particular circles) as hard facts for everyone. It also suffered from "pointless/misleading-benchmark syndrome"...

At least he did detail the customization options toward the end of the review, but I think it would both improve the neutrality and usefulness to readers if the changes for specific dislikes were dealt with where they were first mentioned in the review, rather than implying at that stage that users have no choice with these "problems".

That said, it was a lot more thorough than most reviews, and contained information that might actually be useful for people trying Fedora 16 for the first time. That at least is a good thing.
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  #7  
Old 21st March 2012, 10:30 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Jones View Post
I was less impressed myself. I read it as just another user projecting his own opinions (or those he's picked up on in his own particular circles) as hard facts for everyone. It also suffered from "pointless/misleading-benchmark syndrome"...

At least he did detail the customization options toward the end of the review, but I think it would both improve the neutrality and usefulness to readers if the changes for specific dislikes were dealt with where they were first mentioned in the review, rather than implying at that stage that users have no choice with these "problems".

That said, it was a lot more thorough than most reviews, and contained information that might actually be useful for people trying Fedora 16 for the first time. That at least is a good thing.
I generally agree there is a lot of personal emotive 'projection' there. However there is some truth in the matter. Fedora is not an ideal distro for noobs and recent converts. You and I don't have (much) trouble working through or around the constant steam of glitches. Still there are a lot of noobs and converts here and they do tolerably well - tho' some leave in a huff. I wonder if they wouldn't be better served by a more end-user oriented distro that changes at a slower pace. So fedora is not purely for developers, not close tho' some use it, it's not strictly non-noobish - tho' any noob using Fedora needs to understand what they are getting into.

Sliding into personal opinion - I must agree that G3's interface is not a good fit for developers, tho' usable. But any developer or linux-wrangler or self-respecing admin knows how to circumvent that in 10 minutes. It's not a reason to leave fedora. Gnome3 is ONLY a default among many desktops and it's ONLY the desktop. The seething goodness of the actively fermenting compost pile we call a 'repo' remains.

It would be odd and irrational for Fedora to not support G3. By use (in Fedora especially) some of the rough edges may come off G3 - and clearly it is improving. Then ~5 years down the road Redhat will have to pick another desktop for RHEL7. By then perhaps Wayland will be replacing X11 and Gnome3 will be a legacy desktop (and jpollard will be kvetching like a grumpy old man complaining about teenagers).
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  #8  
Old 22nd March 2012, 12:04 AM
Gareth Jones Offline
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevea View Post
Fedora is not an ideal distro for noobs and recent converts.
Agreed. I still tend to think of Fedora as a developers' distro, in the sense that maybe the default packages aren't developer-orientated, but the versions (effectively latest "stable" at time of release) are very much aimed at those who want or need to be near the bleeding edge of Linux-future.

Quote:
It would be odd and irrational for Fedora to not support G3.
Absolutely.

Quote:
By then perhaps Wayland will be replacing X11 and Gnome3 will be a legacy desktop.
I think the plan is for KWin, Mutter (Shell), Compiz (Unity) and Muffin (Cinnamon) to become Wayland compositors themselves, so they will just run directly on top of KMS/Gallium3D (possibly as a full-screen window in Weston, the reference Wayland compositor), instead of on X. Weston itself is deliberately fairly minimal, and last I read (which is a while ago!) it looked like its role in the finished system would be to replace virtual-console-switching as the fast-user-switching mechanism. But 5 years is a long time in Linux of course...
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  #9  
Old 21st March 2012, 11:35 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

Naaa... Some teenagers already have better ideas than the gnome developers.
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  #10  
Old 21st March 2012, 11:50 PM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

I agree with the quote of OP.

Software should be built for the users who use it. The majority of Linux users are power users. They should have built it with speed in mind instead of simplicity. Is it really that hard to understand?

My opinion is that XFCE should be the Fedora default DE. I would have chosen KDE if Fedora was not Gtk+ centric like openSUSE.
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  #11  
Old 22nd March 2012, 03:59 AM
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Re: An interesting Fedora and Gnome 3 view

Not that sure, to me, fedora was VERY user friendly.
On the other hand, i'm someone who's not afraid to break things and re-install diffrent things in order to fix an issue i havent had until the change i'll be doing on the install after the next one... ehm...

Those distros i tried (all *buntu, deb, slack, arch, sabayon, meego, suse) had either a lack of DE's available, didnt catch my attention with their 'main' DE, were too complicated (or too oldschool) or i just disliked for some other reasons (suse, sabayon).

As i dont mind to use a buggy DE, as long i know its been worked on, i guess i have to agree, fedora is for developers, while offering an end user DE to the masses.
Its using bleeding edge, while providing the (to me) most stable environment, less driver issues and very easy modifications, among its biggest bonus... the great community! (slime slime )

Back to topic...

The article didnt teach anything (ok i now know 1 (to me) important extensions more) new, too much bla bla, and i wouldnt use a DE which the author of the article had designed, thats surly not my 'taste'!
On the other hand, its the most fact oriented article i've read so far about G3.
Its well structured, explains many things to new comers to either Fedora or Linux in general, and is easy to read. It lists pro's and contra's, though not as emotion-less one would/should expect, but still more analyict that most other articles.
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  #12  
Old 21st March 2012, 04:18 PM
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Re: Tom's Hardware Review

I like the Conclusion part:
Quote:
The only thing really wrong with Fedora 16 is the choice of GNOME 3 as its default desktop environment. This distribution is for the people who make Linux, not for the Win/Mac converts. GNOME Shell is most obviously intended for the uninitiated masses, not the developers. Putting aside any gripes we may have with it, from it's very inception, GNOME 3 simply wasn't the right fit for Fedora.
How accurate of a depiction do you think this is?
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  #13  
Old 21st March 2012, 04:31 PM
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Re: Tom's Hardware Review

That was my question too, and I think a good point of interest. Who is Gnome 3 for.

Users looking for sparkly and chewable are just going to go get an iShiny. People that have an interest in GNU/Linux, workflow, configurable UI's... Gnome 3 is an odd fit
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Old 21st March 2012, 04:56 PM
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Re: Tom's Hardware Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQdave View Post
That was my question too, and I think a good point of interest. Who is Gnome 3 for.
It's official: GNOME is not for humans.
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  #15  
Old 21st March 2012, 04:38 PM
bob Online
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Re: Tom's Hardware Review

Then again, it's one of Fedora's Core Values:
Quote:
We believe in the power of innovation and showing off new work in our releases.
So, if it's new and innovative, isn't it Fedora's responsibility to include it? (Of course, Grub2 was a tad late. )
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